NYT Op Ed from a pediatrician - again arguing against schools closures

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Putting small children online for 12+ months of “school” is gross. Save the children.

So, all the videos, tv, apps are ok, just not school. Got it.

Well, FWIW, my kids have struggled extra hard. Because up until this point, they never had a video game console, or a tablet, or a phone. And they were allowed 30-60 minutes of TV a day.

Then suddenly, they are being asked to sit in front of a screen for 6 hours, and have the skills to navigate multiple websites and platforms.

It would be like asking to you to read navigate roadsigns in China

OP again - this is how I feel. I have struggled my whole parenting life to get my kids OFF screens and AWAY from media. And now I have to sit next to my 2nd grader and say - keep looking at the screen. Keep looking. It is killing me.

No, it's not.

Should school for your second-grader have been distance learning this fall? No, I don't think so. But "It is killing me" metaphors are particularly inappropriate when schools are closed due to a pandemic that actually, literally is killing people.

Ok - so it's not physically harming me. Are people not allowed to speak metaphorically during a pandemic? Geez. I do feel terrible about having to force my kids to look at screens all day when every day of their lives before this involved me saying, turn off the TV, give me the tablet, go outside and play! My kids can do it, but I hate having them have to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Logically, I don't understand how all these reports people are posting that says schools mimic community transmission (or falls slightly under) but that the transmission comes from the community and not the school? I think restaurants and bars are spreaders because people obviously take masks off. But, how could a grocery store or nail salon be a bigger spreader than a school where kids and adults are more concentrated for a longer time? How can they know this with absolute certainty; especially without rigorous contact tracing?

There is evidence that kids are spreading it, so it just doesn't make sense for them to claim there is NO school spread, that all the school COVID is from the community. I wonder if this is because the community becomes more lax when school is in session?

No one is claiming there's no school spread. They're saying that all available evidence suggests it occurs less frequently than in the community, even in the places that have broadly opened schools.

SO, explain why schools are shutting down right now?

They're mostly staying open in Europe. Particularly primary schools. France only recently expanded their mask requirement to include young students.

And as I said, schools do cause some community spread. So yes, if/when things get bad enough it may be proper to close them. And perhaps we're already on the path that would require them to close.

But it's not rational to demand cases below 5/100,000 before we let students come back.

Many countries in Europe are on lockdown. We are not. Your comparison makes no sense. You can move to Europe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Logically, I don't understand how all these reports people are posting that says schools mimic community transmission (or falls slightly under) but that the transmission comes from the community and not the school? I think restaurants and bars are spreaders because people obviously take masks off. But, how could a grocery store or nail salon be a bigger spreader than a school where kids and adults are more concentrated for a longer time? How can they know this with absolute certainty; especially without rigorous contact tracing?

There is evidence that kids are spreading it, so it just doesn't make sense for them to claim there is NO school spread, that all the school COVID is from the community. I wonder if this is because the community becomes more lax when school is in session?

No one is claiming there's no school spread. They're saying that all available evidence suggests it occurs less frequently than in the community, even in the places that have broadly opened schools.

SO, explain why schools are shutting down right now?

They're mostly staying open in Europe. Particularly primary schools. France only recently expanded their mask requirement to include young students.

And as I said, schools do cause some community spread. So yes, if/when things get bad enough it may be proper to close them. And perhaps we're already on the path that would require them to close.

But it's not rational to demand cases below 5/100,000 before we let students come back.

Many countries in Europe are on lockdown. We are not. Your comparison makes no sense. You can move to Europe.

They might be on tighter lockdowns, but their case numbers are similar.

[Anonymous]

+1 their numbers are more than they were in the spring. But, that is cases - now we know a lot more about this disease and have better chance of treating it than 6 months ago.

[Anonymous]

And here’s a Washington Post op Ed from an ER doctor saying all schools should stay closed through the winter. Weird how you can write an Op Ed on the same topic and have a totally different argument! https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/24/close-schools-coronavirus-winter/#click=https://t.co/NDh0wz2VtR

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And here’s a Washington Post op Ed from an ER doctor saying all schools should stay closed through the winter. Weird how you can write an Op Ed on the same topic and have a totally different argument! https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/24/close-schools-coronavirus-winter/#click=https://t.co/NDh0wz2VtR

a comment from that article:

'My daughter teaches in a school district where she must teach some students online and also teach some student in-house at the same time. This presents huge challenges as teaching methods in class are not necessarily effective online or vice versa. She is also expected to directly teach the online students their math and reading instruction as a teacher-led lesson,( live) providing direct instruction to them. This demands a lot of coordination of time and materials for both sets of students, and also a hope and a prayer that the technology will work.

Recently a student in her class, and her dad were diagnosed with COVID, and 6 others had to quarantine immediately. This meant she had to set up the online instruction for each of those students individually so they could now be a part of the online group. This was not an easy task, and she needed to do it with those seven students by the next day.

Most of the students returned to in class instruction after quarantining 10 to 14 days, but as they returned, another student was pulled out because her sister was now positive. This shows how the revolving door is another factor that impacts delivery to students.

My daughter works from the time she gets home from school, until she goes to bed trying to follow-up on communications with the online students., and prepare for the next day. She feels she is pulled many different directions at once, and feels overwhelmed. She is doing the job of several teachers because of trying to serve both classroom conditions, and their unique needs. And she is fearful that she may contract COVID herself.

She needs more help, but everyone else is also overwhelmed. Consequently, she struggles to do her best, knowing it is not enough. This is her reality. It is not as simple as saying , "the kids need to be in school."

I don't think parents really see this at all. I decided to keep my kids virtual. I am a nurse and I saw the writing on the wall as cases started to creep back up at work. Even *if* kids were to go back, it wouldn't last/be consistent. And don't even get me started with the whole concurrent crap. I've noticed though that the same people who call teachers lazy and protest school closures are the same ones refusing to give up seeing grandma for Thanksgiving or restaurant outings. Or they complain about masks. You want your kids in school sooner? Do your part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And here’s a Washington Post op Ed from an ER doctor saying all schools should stay closed through the winter. Weird how you can write an Op Ed on the same topic and have a totally different argument! https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/24/close-schools-coronavirus-winter/#click=https://t.co/NDh0wz2VtR

a comment from that article:

'My daughter teaches in a school district where she must teach some students online and also teach some student in-house at the same time. This presents huge challenges as teaching methods in class are not necessarily effective online or vice versa. She is also expected to directly teach the online students their math and reading instruction as a teacher-led lesson,( live) providing direct instruction to them. This demands a lot of coordination of time and materials for both sets of students, and also a hope and a prayer that the technology will work.

Recently a student in her class, and her dad were diagnosed with COVID, and 6 others had to quarantine immediately. This meant she had to set up the online instruction for each of those students individually so they could now be a part of the online group. This was not an easy task, and she needed to do it with those seven students by the next day.

Most of the students returned to in class instruction after quarantining 10 to 14 days, but as they returned, another student was pulled out because her sister was now positive. This shows how the revolving door is another factor that impacts delivery to students.

My daughter works from the time she gets home from school, until she goes to bed trying to follow-up on communications with the online students., and prepare for the next day. She feels she is pulled many different directions at once, and feels overwhelmed. She is doing the job of several teachers because of trying to serve both classroom conditions, and their unique needs. And she is fearful that she may contract COVID herself.

She needs more help, but everyone else is also overwhelmed. Consequently, she struggles to do her best, knowing it is not enough. This is her reality. It is not as simple as saying , "the kids need to be in school."

I don't think parents really see this at all. I decided to keep my kids virtual. I am a nurse and I saw the writing on the wall as cases started to creep back up at work. Even *if* kids were to go back, it wouldn't last/be consistent. And don't even get me started with the whole concurrent crap. I've noticed though that the same people who call teachers lazy and protest school closures are the same ones refusing to give up seeing grandma for Thanksgiving or restaurant outings. Or they complain about masks. You want your kids in school sooner? Do your part.

sorry the bolded was my response to the comment from article...