Allegedly there are several options for the fall none of which include being back full time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Scientist here, with a background in virology. I see there's a lot of misinformation on this thread.

1. Caution is the name of the game in science and medicine.
SARS-Cov-2 is a novel virus that just jumped the species barrier, not a well-known virus that is long adapted to humans. Consequently, we are looking at a high standard of confirmation for any study that shows a portion of the population may not transmit viral particles easily. This is because airborne viruses usually don't discriminate in the transmission department. Why should this virus be different? While children seem to have fewer symptoms than adults, this does not mean, and has never meant, that they transmit less virus. Any study showing that children are not likely carriers of Covid-19 should be looked at suspiciously until we can replicate the study multiple times and confirm the finding. This has not yet happened.

2. Schools are accelerators of viral spread, because children with poor hygiene and lack of physical distancing will expose each other and expose household members and school staff, and their household members, and into the community, a portion of which is in higher-risk categories.

3. There are precious few schools where physical distancing is feasible without at least some remote learning. Most children are 25-30 to a class. Core spaces like cafeterias, gyms, media centers, music rooms, athletic changing rooms, are not designed for physical distancing. Buses pose a particular risk.

4. The great news is that vaccine production seems to be advancing ahead of schedule, and will be ready as early as the beginning of 2021. It's true vaccine specialists have cut corners, there's no denying it. But basic safeguards are not ignored. Clinical studies testing for SAFETY and EFFICACY are happening and will happen.

5. Just because protesters find it important to assemble in person and express their views, with or without elementary precautions against viral transmission, does not mean the pandemic isn't just as dangerous as it was before. We must all wear masks and physically distance as much as we can.

Wow! Early 2021! So our kids only need to lose 5-6 more months of valuable education???? Fantastic!

The vaccine isn't going to make a bit of difference. And I don't believe your a scientist for a second.

No one on DCUM thought MCPS was “valuable education” before March 13. Y’all were constantly complaining that your children learned nothing in school and you taught them more in one hour a day after dinner than they learned in 6 hours at school. What happened to all the posters who said the workbooks you bought on Amazon were worth more than anything MCPS could muster?

You’re just angry that your free babysitting is gone and you have to spend all day with your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The year with the highest pediatric flu mortality in the US was 09-10 (H1N1) and there were still only 282 deaths. No idea where parents on here got the idea fact the flu kills “thousands of children every year”. It does not. Usually somewhere around 100, total.

COVID has killed over 100,000 people with the strictest mitigation policies in place that we have seen in our lifetimes. You are very dense if you don’t see how the two are different. Closing schools is about preventing community spread, not about saving Sebastian and Avery.

NP. You are correct that the flu does not kill "thousands", but even the true numbers are still multiple times higher than Covid.

And all the available evidence so far indicates that schools have a minimal impact on community spread, and so the benefits of opening schools will outweigh their enormous harms to children and working families.

*I meant the harms of keeping schools closed will outweigh the harms of potential additional spread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Scientist here, with a background in virology. I see there's a lot of misinformation on this thread.

1. Caution is the name of the game in science and medicine.
SARS-Cov-2 is a novel virus that just jumped the species barrier, not a well-known virus that is long adapted to humans. Consequently, we are looking at a high standard of confirmation for any study that shows a portion of the population may not transmit viral particles easily. This is because airborne viruses usually don't discriminate in the transmission department. Why should this virus be different? While children seem to have fewer symptoms than adults, this does not mean, and has never meant, that they transmit less virus. Any study showing that children are not likely carriers of Covid-19 should be looked at suspiciously until we can replicate the study multiple times and confirm the finding. This has not yet happened.

2. Schools are accelerators of viral spread, because children with poor hygiene and lack of physical distancing will expose each other and expose household members and school staff, and their household members, and into the community, a portion of which is in higher-risk categories.

3. There are precious few schools where physical distancing is feasible without at least some remote learning. Most children are 25-30 to a class. Core spaces like cafeterias, gyms, media centers, music rooms, athletic changing rooms, are not designed for physical distancing. Buses pose a particular risk.

4. The great news is that vaccine production seems to be advancing ahead of schedule, and will be ready as early as the beginning of 2021. It's true vaccine specialists have cut corners, there's no denying it. But basic safeguards are not ignored. Clinical studies testing for SAFETY and EFFICACY are happening and will happen.

5. Just because protesters find it important to assemble in person and express their views, with or without elementary precautions against viral transmission, does not mean the pandemic isn't just as dangerous as it was before. We must all wear masks and physically distance as much as we can.

Wow! Early 2021! So our kids only need to lose 5-6 more months of valuable education???? Fantastic!

The vaccine isn't going to make a bit of difference. And I don't believe your a scientist for a second.

No one on DCUM thought MCPS was “valuable education” before March 13. Y’all were constantly complaining that your children learned nothing in school and you taught them more in one hour a day after dinner than they learned in 6 hours at school. What happened to all the posters who said the workbooks you bought on Amazon were worth more than anything MCPS could muster?

You’re just angry that your free babysitting is gone and you have to spend all day with your kid.

I don't want to think the possibility that you may actually be a "teacher". I just don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please stop the hysteria already. In an environment where our hospitals are not overwhelmed, the mortality rate from Covid19 consistently dropping (fast approaching flu mortality rate), testing/contact tracing capability increasing there is absolutely no reason to keep schools closed. The risk to students is way lower than flu. I never heard of school closure because of flu even though thousands and thousands of kids die every year because of flu. Even to healthy adults the risk is low. Only elderly teachers need to be careful. Maybe they can be transferred to less contact positions.

Schools close for the flu. Just Google it. They close, clean deeply, and reopen. Google it.
However, this works best when you have neighborhood schools and aren’t transporting kids all over a huge district to attend special programs. It also works best when staffing is fully funded and you don’t have three ES sharing a music teacher or a media specialist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The year with the highest pediatric flu mortality in the US was 09-10 (H1N1) and there were still only 282 deaths. No idea where parents on here got the idea fact the flu kills “thousands of children every year”. It does not. Usually somewhere around 100, total.

COVID has killed over 100,000 people with the strictest mitigation policies in place that we have seen in our lifetimes. You are very dense if you don’t see how the two are different. Closing schools is about preventing community spread, not about saving Sebastian and Avery.

NP. You are correct that the flu does not kill "thousands", but even the true numbers are still multiple times higher than Covid.

And all the available evidence so far indicates that schools have a minimal impact on community spread, and so the benefits of opening schools will outweigh their enormous harms to children and working families.

*I meant the harms of keeping schools closed will outweigh the harms of potential additional spread.

I think you were right the first time. Reopening the schools will bring enormous harms, especially in overcrowded schools. But the focus seems to be on economic benefits trumping everything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Scientist here, with a background in virology. I see there's a lot of misinformation on this thread.

1. Caution is the name of the game in science and medicine.
SARS-Cov-2 is a novel virus that just jumped the species barrier, not a well-known virus that is long adapted to humans. Consequently, we are looking at a high standard of confirmation for any study that shows a portion of the population may not transmit viral particles easily. This is because airborne viruses usually don't discriminate in the transmission department. Why should this virus be different? While children seem to have fewer symptoms than adults, this does not mean, and has never meant, that they transmit less virus. Any study showing that children are not likely carriers of Covid-19 should be looked at suspiciously until we can replicate the study multiple times and confirm the finding. This has not yet happened.

2. Schools are accelerators of viral spread, because children with poor hygiene and lack of physical distancing will expose each other and expose household members and school staff, and their household members, and into the community, a portion of which is in higher-risk categories.

3. There are precious few schools where physical distancing is feasible without at least some remote learning. Most children are 25-30 to a class. Core spaces like cafeterias, gyms, media centers, music rooms, athletic changing rooms, are not designed for physical distancing. Buses pose a particular risk.

4. The great news is that vaccine production seems to be advancing ahead of schedule, and will be ready as early as the beginning of 2021. It's true vaccine specialists have cut corners, there's no denying it. But basic safeguards are not ignored. Clinical studies testing for SAFETY and EFFICACY are happening and will happen.

5. Just because protesters find it important to assemble in person and express their views, with or without elementary precautions against viral transmission, does not mean the pandemic isn't just as dangerous as it was before. We must all wear masks and physically distance as much as we can.

Wow! Early 2021! So our kids only need to lose 5-6 more months of valuable education???? Fantastic!

The vaccine isn't going to make a bit of difference. And I don't believe your a scientist for a second.

No one on DCUM thought MCPS was “valuable education” before March 13. Y’all were constantly complaining that your children learned nothing in school and you taught them more in one hour a day after dinner than they learned in 6 hours at school. What happened to all the posters who said the workbooks you bought on Amazon were worth more than anything MCPS could muster?

You’re just angry that your free babysitting is gone and you have to spend all day with your kid.

I don't want to think the possibility that you may actually be a "teacher". I just don't.

Look at the comment at 21:51. The prevailing attitude on DCUM is that school is babysitting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The year with the highest pediatric flu mortality in the US was 09-10 (H1N1) and there were still only 282 deaths. No idea where parents on here got the idea fact the flu kills “thousands of children every year”. It does not. Usually somewhere around 100, total.

COVID has killed over 100,000 people with the strictest mitigation policies in place that we have seen in our lifetimes. You are very dense if you don’t see how the two are different. Closing schools is about preventing community spread, not about saving Sebastian and Avery.

NP. You are correct that the flu does not kill "thousands", but even the true numbers are still multiple times higher than Covid.

And all the available evidence so far indicates that schools have a minimal impact on community spread, and so the benefits of opening schools will outweigh their enormous harms to children and working families.

*I meant the harms of keeping schools closed will outweigh the harms of potential additional spread.

I think you were right the first time. Reopening the schools will bring enormous harms, especially in overcrowded schools. But the focus seems to be on economic benefits trumping everything else.

Ha, good one. However, even if you do think opening schools will cause "enormous harms" (of which there is no evidence so far), those harms will not be to children and working families, but very largely to the elderly and already health-compromised. So my first statement really didn't make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The year with the highest pediatric flu mortality in the US was 09-10 (H1N1) and there were still only 282 deaths. No idea where parents on here got the idea fact the flu kills “thousands of children every year”. It does not. Usually somewhere around 100, total.

COVID has killed over 100,000 people with the strictest mitigation policies in place that we have seen in our lifetimes. You are very dense if you don’t see how the two are different. Closing schools is about preventing community spread, not about saving Sebastian and Avery.

OK let me correct myself. While the mortality rate on children may not be thousands and thousands, it is on the order of one thousand according to CDC's mathematical models that account for the underreporting of flu-related deaths in children. Also 61,000 people in US (reported cases) died because of flu in 2017-18 season. I didn't research the full history, but I understand some years may be less, some years it may be more. On the other hand, around the globe the mortality rate due to Covid-19 dropped significantly after its initial phase. I'm not saying Covid-19 is no big deal. What I'm saying, on the other hand, is benefit vs risk mitigation should make sense. Shutting down the entire school system for months creates a whole lot more problems in my opinion compared to any risk mitigation gains.

[Anonymous]

Former HIV immunology researcher and current MCPS teacher here:

A couple of points:
Vaccines are not perfect. You hope for at least 70% effectiveness to release. For some age groups the vaccines may not be effective. We may need seasonal vaccines if the corona virus has new strains similar to flu. We are already seeing new strains in the wild.

I don't feel safe in a classroom with students. The reality is that students will challenge any guidelines we set up. Students are not very reliable at following social distancing or washing hands. Some can't keep their hands off each other. I am concerned about staff that are high risk and the family of students that are high risk.

I don't think 7-12th grades should return to school for these reasons. I think the younger grades should return and spread out in all the classrooms with the option for staff to opt out and teach remotely as hybrid model. I also think ESOL, 504, and IEP students should return. Basically all learning should be online but students in the classes have adult supervision and stay in class together all day. I have no idea how buses would work though. The students are all over each other in the lines and on the buses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Scientist here, with a background in virology. I see there's a lot of misinformation on this thread.

1. Caution is the name of the game in science and medicine.
SARS-Cov-2 is a novel virus that just jumped the species barrier, not a well-known virus that is long adapted to humans. Consequently, we are looking at a high standard of confirmation for any study that shows a portion of the population may not transmit viral particles easily. This is because airborne viruses usually don't discriminate in the transmission department. Why should this virus be different? While children seem to have fewer symptoms than adults, this does not mean, and has never meant, that they transmit less virus. Any study showing that children are not likely carriers of Covid-19 should be looked at suspiciously until we can replicate the study multiple times and confirm the finding. This has not yet happened.

2. Schools are accelerators of viral spread, because children with poor hygiene and lack of physical distancing will expose each other and expose household members and school staff, and their household members, and into the community, a portion of which is in higher-risk categories.

3. There are precious few schools where physical distancing is feasible without at least some remote learning. Most children are 25-30 to a class. Core spaces like cafeterias, gyms, media centers, music rooms, athletic changing rooms, are not designed for physical distancing. Buses pose a particular risk.

4. The great news is that vaccine production seems to be advancing ahead of schedule, and will be ready as early as the beginning of 2021. It's true vaccine specialists have cut corners, there's no denying it. But basic safeguards are not ignored. Clinical studies testing for SAFETY and EFFICACY are happening and will happen.

5. Just because protesters find it important to assemble in person and express their views, with or without elementary precautions against viral transmission, does not mean the pandemic isn't just as dangerous as it was before. We must all wear masks and physically distance as much as we can.

Wow! Early 2021! So our kids only need to lose 5-6 more months of valuable education???? Fantastic!

The vaccine isn't going to make a bit of difference. And I don't believe your a scientist for a second.

No one on DCUM thought MCPS was “valuable education” before March 13. Y’all were constantly complaining that your children learned nothing in school and you taught them more in one hour a day after dinner than they learned in 6 hours at school. What happened to all the posters who said the workbooks you bought on Amazon were worth more than anything MCPS could muster?

You’re just angry that your free babysitting is gone and you have to spend all day with your kid.

I don't want to think the possibility that you may actually be a "teacher". I just don't.

Look at the comment at 21:51. The prevailing attitude on DCUM is that school is babysitting.

No, that's not the prevailing attitude. There may be some individials with that attitude, but that's not prevailing attitude. My spouse stays at home. But even we can't wait schools to reopen. I can't imagine the situation with both working parents. You seem to be generalizing out of proportion to help your argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The year with the highest pediatric flu mortality in the US was 09-10 (H1N1) and there were still only 282 deaths. No idea where parents on here got the idea fact the flu kills “thousands of children every year”. It does not. Usually somewhere around 100, total.

COVID has killed over 100,000 people with the strictest mitigation policies in place that we have seen in our lifetimes. You are very dense if you don’t see how the two are different. Closing schools is about preventing community spread, not about saving Sebastian and Avery.

OK let me correct myself. While the mortality rate on children may not be thousands and thousands, it is on the order of one thousand according to CDC's mathematical models that account for the underreporting of flu-related deaths in children. Also 61,000 people in US (reported cases) died because of flu in 2017-18 season. I didn't research the full history, but I understand some years may be less, some years it may be more. On the other hand, around the globe the mortality rate due to Covid-19 dropped significantly after its initial phase. I'm not saying Covid-19 is no big deal. What I'm saying, on the other hand, is benefit vs risk mitigation should make sense. Shutting down the entire school system for months creates a whole lot more problems in my opinion compared to any risk mitigation gains.

You can’t just compared mortality rates (whatever they may be) between flu and COVID. The population as a whole has a lot more immunity to flu, and none at all to COVID. What % gets flu each year? I’d guess it’s under 10%. 100% of people are susceptible to COVID.

And somewhere along the way in this thread, we’ve lost cause and effect reasoning. Someone said if we don’t have a resurgence by fall, we should go back to school. That sound like the people complaining that a big spike was predicted in spring, but it didn’t happen, so we shouldn’t have locked down. Um, no. Because we locked down, we didn’t have a big spike. If we do not go back to school, we should prevent a resurgence. If we do go back to school, then there will be a spike. Disease transmission happens really quickly in schools, (I teach HS - and just watch the waves go through after Thanksgiving and Christmas travel) no reason to think COVID will be different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Former HIV immunology researcher and current MCPS teacher here:

A couple of points:
Vaccines are not perfect. You hope for at least 70% effectiveness to release. For some age groups the vaccines may not be effective. We may need seasonal vaccines if the corona virus has new strains similar to flu. We are already seeing new strains in the wild.

I don't feel safe in a classroom with students. The reality is that students will challenge any guidelines we set up. Students are not very reliable at following social distancing or washing hands. Some can't keep their hands off each other. I am concerned about staff that are high risk and the family of students that are high risk.

I don't think 7-12th grades should return to school for these reasons. I think the younger grades should return and spread out in all the classrooms with the option for staff to opt out and teach remotely as hybrid model. I also think ESOL, 504, and IEP students should return. Basically all learning should be online but students in the classes have adult supervision and stay in class together all day. I have no idea how buses would work though. The students are all over each other in the lines and on the buses.

People cry out loud all over the place. Do you even hear? The kids don't learn anything under the so called distance "learning". For underprivileged students the problem is even bigger since they don't have any enrichment whatsoever at home. For students with working parents the problem is even bigger since the quality of food on the table goes down. And yet you suggest cancelling schools even more next academic year?? To gain 1 with risk mitigation at the expense of 1000 in other parts of the society: economical, social, psychological, educational you name it. And don't get me started with distance learning. I would rather stop that altogether and get you off the paycheck. Then come talk to me again, let's see if your attitude changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Former HIV immunology researcher and current MCPS teacher here:

A couple of points:
Vaccines are not perfect. You hope for at least 70% effectiveness to release. For some age groups the vaccines may not be effective. We may need seasonal vaccines if the corona virus has new strains similar to flu. We are already seeing new strains in the wild.

I don't feel safe in a classroom with students. The reality is that students will challenge any guidelines we set up. Students are not very reliable at following social distancing or washing hands. Some can't keep their hands off each other. I am concerned about staff that are high risk and the family of students that are high risk.

I don't think 7-12th grades should return to school for these reasons. I think the younger grades should return and spread out in all the classrooms with the option for staff to opt out and teach remotely as hybrid model. I also think ESOL, 504, and IEP students should return. Basically all learning should be online but students in the classes have adult supervision and stay in class together all day. I have no idea how buses would work though. The students are all over each other in the lines and on the buses.

People cry out loud all over the place. Do you even hear? The kids don't learn anything under the so called distance "learning". For underprivileged students the problem is even bigger since they don't have any enrichment whatsoever at home. For students with working parents the problem is even bigger since the quality of food on the table goes down. And yet you suggest cancelling schools even more next academic year?? To gain 1 with risk mitigation at the expense of 1000 in other parts of the society: economical, social, psychological, educational you name it. And don't get me started with distance learning. I would rather stop that altogether and get you off the paycheck. Then come talk to me again, let's see if your attitude changes.

You want teachers to feel bad about you losing your job to care for your own children. You also repeatedly state that you want us to lose our livelihoods. Very hard to feel sorry for your predicament when you have so little regard for other people.
It will be what it will be, no matter how angry you are. Full time with masks, half time with masks and hybrid learning, etc. We are being told a hybrid is most likely. Sorry that you don’t like the idea, but it doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Even if a vaccine is miraculously ready to go in early 2021, it would take months to vaccinate everyone. So the teachers who want to wait for a vaccine before going back to work are saying they want another year of no education.

[Anonymous]

I always had so much respect for teachers.