Therapist Won't Condemn my Partner's Affair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. I’m gonna let you in on a secret learned from the hard experience of my now ex’s infidelity —-

Apologies are words. When (if) you get an apology, you will not know if it is sincere or not. Your DH is a liar and has told you many lies to carry out the affair. An apology may be just one more of the many lies. Or, it’s possible that it may be the last lie - possible but not probable.

You would be much better off watching your DH’s behavior; that is the real tell. Is he remorseful? Does he treat you with kindness? Has he come clean and told you everything without prompting? Does he acknowledge that the affair is stems from his own weakness or does he blame you or the marriage? Is he engaging in DARVO - (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)? Is making an effort to spend timely pleasantly with you? Is he tolerant when you are triggered? Has he opened all the books, i.e. is he voluntarily giving you full access to all phone, text, email, finances, etc. ?

What he does on his own without prompting from you will really tell you far more than any words of apology.

THIS! Everyone should read these wise words. Excellent post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't do therapy until all parties stipulate that the affair was wrong.

Am I nuts?

Nope. Find a new therapist.

+100. Seriously dump this therapist. This person isn’t the right one. He isn’t listening to you at all and so not a good therapist. Why accept a subpar solution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. I’m gonna let you in on a secret learned from the hard experience of my now ex’s infidelity —-

Apologies are words. When (if) you get an apology, you will not know if it is sincere or not. Your DH is a liar and has told you many lies to carry out the affair. An apology may be just one more of the many lies. Or, it’s possible that it may be the last lie - possible but not probable.

You would be much better off watching your DH’s behavior; that is the real tell. Is he remorseful? Does he treat you with kindness? Has he come clean and told you everything without prompting? Does he acknowledge that the affair is stems from his own weakness or does he blame you or the marriage? Is he engaging in DARVO - (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)? Is making an effort to spend timely pleasantly with you? Is he tolerant when you are triggered? Has he opened all the books, i.e. is he voluntarily giving you full access to all phone, text, email, finances, etc. ?

What he does on his own without prompting from you will really tell you far more than any words of apology.

THIS! Everyone should read these wise words. Excellent post.

Yes, and the most important, IMO, is complete access to "the books."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. I’m gonna let you in on a secret learned from the hard experience of my now ex’s infidelity —-

Apologies are words. When (if) you get an apology, you will not know if it is sincere or not. Your DH is a liar and has told you many lies to carry out the affair. An apology may be just one more of the many lies. Or, it’s possible that it may be the last lie - possible but not probable.

You would be much better off watching your DH’s behavior; that is the real tell. Is he remorseful? Does he treat you with kindness? Has he come clean and told you everything without prompting? Does he acknowledge that the affair is stems from his own weakness or does he blame you or the marriage? Is he engaging in DARVO - (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)? Is making an effort to spend timely pleasantly with you? Is he tolerant when you are triggered? Has he opened all the books, i.e. is he voluntarily giving you full access to all phone, text, email, finances, etc. ?

What he does on his own without prompting from you will really tell you far more than any words of apology.

THIS! Everyone should read these wise words. Excellent post.

Yes, and the most important, IMO, is complete access to "the books."

Although, TBH, you can do all that, and still feel no remorse. Very easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. I’m gonna let you in on a secret learned from the hard experience of my now ex’s infidelity —-

Apologies are words. When (if) you get an apology, you will not know if it is sincere or not. Your DH is a liar and has told you many lies to carry out the affair. An apology may be just one more of the many lies. Or, it’s possible that it may be the last lie - possible but not probable.

You would be much better off watching your DH’s behavior; that is the real tell. Is he remorseful? Does he treat you with kindness? Has he come clean and told you everything without prompting? Does he acknowledge that the affair is stems from his own weakness or does he blame you or the marriage? Is he engaging in DARVO - (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)? Is making an effort to spend timely pleasantly with you? Is he tolerant when you are triggered? Has he opened all the books, i.e. is he voluntarily giving you full access to all phone, text, email, finances, etc. ?

What he does on his own without prompting from you will really tell you far more than any words of apology.

THIS! Everyone should read these wise words. Excellent post.

Yes, and the most important, IMO, is complete access to "the books."

Although, TBH, you can do all that, and still feel no remorse. Very easily.

Yes, liars gonna lie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. I’m gonna let you in on a secret learned from the hard experience of my now ex’s infidelity —-

Apologies are words. When (if) you get an apology, you will not know if it is sincere or not. Your DH is a liar and has told you many lies to carry out the affair. An apology may be just one more of the many lies. Or, it’s possible that it may be the last lie - possible but not probable.

You would be much better off watching your DH’s behavior; that is the real tell. Is he remorseful? Does he treat you with kindness? Has he come clean and told you everything without prompting? Does he acknowledge that the affair is stems from his own weakness or does he blame you or the marriage? Is he engaging in DARVO - (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender)? Is making an effort to spend timely pleasantly with you? Is he tolerant when you are triggered? Has he opened all the books, i.e. is he voluntarily giving you full access to all phone, text, email, finances, etc. ?

What he does on his own without prompting from you will really tell you far more than any words of apology.

THIS! Everyone should read these wise words. Excellent post.

Yes, and the most important, IMO, is complete access to "the books."

Although, TBH, you can do all that, and still feel no remorse. Very easily.

Yes, liars gonna lie.

That’s true, but if a spouse won’t even attempt these things, then you have a very clear picture of where things stand. It makes it easier to pull the trigger on divorce.

[Anonymous]

The therapist isn’t there to condemn but they should work to help your husband understand the breadth of pain he has caused you. Additionally, they should also work to expose the issues in your marriage that may have led to you being detached from each other. If you are going into it thinking you have no part in the break down of your marriage, you might as well save your money and head to divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The therapist is there to support you both in communicating your feelings to each other and helping you to address problems in your relationship. That is next to impossible if one of you believes, correctly or incorrectly, that the therapist is taking sides.

If you will not participate in therapy without the therapist being "on your side" and vocally condemning your partner's affair, you are not ready for therapy. An individual therapist may be in order before you are ready for couples work.

So if her husband beat her you would say it was OK for the therapist to not take sides?

+ 1 I’ve raised the same issue when I talked to my individual therapist about my marriage counselor refusing to condemn behavior. It’s what I don’t get about this profession. People want to act “above the fray” and non-judgmental but where’s the line????

An affair is not even remotely the same thing as beating someone. WTF is wrong with you that you would equate the two?

An affair, especially one that is more than a one-night stand, is a serious form of emotional abuse. Those affairs that last a significant time and involve slow-rolling unraveling of many lies with lack of remorse on the part of the perpetrator can cause complex post-traumatic stress. Affairs are not physical abuse, but they are emotional abuse and a betrayal of consensual terms of sex between monogamous partners. It’s definitely a form of sex abuse toward the victim partner.

I’ve been the victim of both physical abuse and emotional abuse and infidelity (not all in the same relationship). I think it’s impossible to say one is worse than the other. Physical abuse leaves its marks, but at least when a person hits you it’s clear that it’s wrong and people will help and support you. With emotional abuse it’s much more difficult to recognize that a line has been crossed. We are like frogs in a pot who don’t realize the water will get to boiling. No one wants to help you because they think it might be partially your fault or they can’t be involved in someone else’s marriage. There is no legal recourse or protection for verbal or emotional abuse. It leaves invisible scars that are hard to heal.

The analogy to domestic abuse is very apt - people blame infidelity victims for their abuse in the same way people used to blame domestic abuse victims for causing their husband’s violence/anger and in the same way we used to blame rape victims who wore short skirts or were friends with their perpetrators.

+1000 well said and so very true thank you

[Anonymous]

OP, I understand 100% what you are looking for, but you aren't going to get it from a therapist. You also aren't going to get it from your husband. There is literally, LITERALLY NO excuse for an affair that can't be countered with "why didn't you use your words to end the relationship before starting a new one?" They didn't because they are selfish humans who are ok with lying to you, lying to their affair partners, gaslighting you, and then blaming you for it. That is the truth that is staring you in the face.

Getting a therapist to force him to see that is not going to change anything about the person sitting next to you in that therapy session. He will still blame you for his actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: There is literally, LITERALLY NO excuse for an affair that can't be countered with "why didn't you use your words to end the relationship before starting a new one?"

I wanted to have my cake and eat it, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: There is literally, LITERALLY NO excuse for an affair that can't be countered with "why didn't you use your words to end the relationship before starting a new one?"

I wanted to have my cake and eat it, too.

Hopefully your wife gave you what you wanted: kick you out of the house so that you can be with other women as a divorced man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if I wasn't clear. My partner had an affair. I only discovered because I saw their texts. We decided to try counseling. Partner has yet to apologize or admit they were wrong.

On first visit, the therapist said they were not in a position to make judgement on whether the affair was wrong.

I need there to be an admission and recognition of wrongdoing in order to proceed toward forgiveness.

I was raised that you apologize when you're wrong.

Are you saying that your partner must admit and recognize wrongdoing? Because that is part of the purpose of the therapy. You are putting the cart before the horse. And, most likely, your partner feels that there are things for which you must apologize, admit and recognize as wrongdoing also.

Or are you saying the therapist must recognize the wrongdoing for you to proceed? Because that is what your title says, but it seems to be focused on the wrong person.

Maybe you should try individual counseling first. It is not wrong, by the way, to decide that you will not forgive. Or, to forgive, but not stay in the relationship.

If your spouse needs therapy to recognize that an affair is wrong, the marriage is already over. Op, don't waste your time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry if I wasn't clear. My partner had an affair. I only discovered because I saw their texts. We decided to try counseling. Partner has yet to apologize or admit they were wrong.

On first visit, the therapist said they were not in a position to make judgement on whether the affair was wrong.

I need there to be an admission and recognition of wrongdoing in order to proceed toward forgiveness.

I was raised that you apologize when you're wrong.

Why are you in counseling?

I mean I wouldn't even go to counseling unless the party who cheated begged me to go.

The thing is that you are betraying yourself by staying, and by going to therapy.

It is not your place to force him to apologize. It is his place to beg for forgiveness. You cannot make him. And you cannot grant forgiveness until he asks for it.

Worry about yourself and your children. Forget therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I recommend reading The State of Affairs by well-respected couples' therapist Esther Perel.

OP, it is so hurtful when a spouse goes outside the marriage to meet needs, and breaks vows.

But the reasons for an affair are complex and you're not going to find peace looking to blame him alone. If he's simply a bad person, leave him. If he's not, share in discovering why he did what he did and what responsibility you bear for what wasn't right in the relationship.

I think this is a really damaging point of view. It assumes that "if he/she had a perfect relationship, he/she wouldn't cheat", and it shifts the burden to the aggrieved party to deliver a perfect relationship - as if a relationship is a consumer product you can perfect and deliver.

I have very liberal views on cheating. I think sexual fidelity is overrated and that many marriages have survived it. But I think that there is no such thing as "discovering why he did what he did". People do what they do, and you do not belong inside their head figuring out their reasons (as if that is even possible). Worry about your own self.

[Anonymous]

You are wrong, entirely. She cannot work with you both if she is perceived as taking sides. Be the patient and let her do her job