“Ask 3 before me”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious what posters think should happen instead? So the teachers goes over directions and asks if students have questions about the assignment. Should she allow students to interrupt her small group whenever they want? If you could seen what that looks like, I bet you would think differently.

The child should raise hand, ask the question and the teacher should answer it. I don’t understand the difficulty or how this presents a burden? I have volunteered in my kids’ classes and the teachers do just that.

The situation is, the teacher is sitting at a side table working with a small group of 5 or so. The rest of the students are working independently at desks. If the teacher is focusing on the hands raised at the desks she cannot work with the small group at the side table at the same time.

This just seems like another example of people assuming they know how teaching works, because they were once in school and have been in classrooms now and then.

Ok, first not all schools do this. I know public schools have adapted this style in recent years, but thread illustrates why it isn’t a successful model. Not only is it NOT successful, it’s a disaster. I have A LOT of sympathy for public school teachers. I know you guys are doing the best you can with a crappy model.

I’ve never heard or worked in an elementary school that doesn’t have any small group time in grades K-2. I even had small group time in ES back in the 80s. Our groups were named after birds in first grade- blue birds, cardinals, orioles, eagles.

I agree most schools have small group time, but it's not most of the day. My kids have been in both public & private elementary and I find they do things very different. The private system seemed more effective and the teachers were less stressed. Lessons are taught to the entire class. For example, a grammar lesson on nouns v. verbs. Or, a lesson on parts of a story or writing paragraphs. Kids might raise hand to ask a question, and the teacher may ask the student to hold on to the question until she's done OR she may answer it on the spot. No one is saying, ask 3 before me. Children sit at their desks and work on a writing assignment. Teachers walks around and helps the children as needed. Kids always ask "how do you spell xyz??" Teacher asks students to look it up in their books, or the kids try to sound it out and the teacher corrects the spelling later.

For group work (which is just a small portion of day) -- students are assigned to reading groups based on ability. Strong readers are grouped together, struggling readers are grouped together. The ASSISTANT TEACHER (a huge advantage, i know) works with struggling readers on phonics while main teacher works with other children. Or, the assistant works with strong readers, while main teachers works with everyone else. I like this model because students get what they need.

So basically kids get what they need if they go to a private school that has admissions and that charges tuition and has smaller classes with assistant teachers to help. Got it.

100% true.

We are a family with means. We live in an areal of Northern Virginia without any decent private schools. I wish that were not the case. I'd love for my kids to get an excellent t private education.

[Anonymous]

How about they write the instructions on the worksheet or the board so the children can reference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious what posters think should happen instead? So the teachers goes over directions and asks if students have questions about the assignment. Should she allow students to interrupt her small group whenever they want? If you could seen what that looks like, I bet you would think differently.

The child should raise hand, ask the question and the teacher should answer it. I don’t understand the difficulty or how this presents a burden? I have volunteered in my kids’ classes and the teachers do just that.

The situation is, the teacher is sitting at a side table working with a small group of 5 or so. The rest of the students are working independently at desks. If the teacher is focusing on the hands raised at the desks she cannot work with the small group at the side table at the same time.

This just seems like another example of people assuming they know how teaching works, because they were once in school and have been in classrooms now and then.

Ok, first not all schools do this. I know public schools have adapted this style in recent years, but thread illustrates why it isn’t a successful model. Not only is it NOT successful, it’s a disaster. I have A LOT of sympathy for public school teachers. I know you guys are doing the best you can with a crappy model.

I’ve never heard or worked in an elementary school that doesn’t have any small group time in grades K-2. I even had small group time in ES back in the 80s. Our groups were named after birds in first grade- blue birds, cardinals, orioles, eagles.

I agree most schools have small group time, but it's not most of the day. My kids have been in both public & private elementary and I find they do things very different. The private system seemed more effective and the teachers were less stressed. Lessons are taught to the entire class. For example, a grammar lesson on nouns v. verbs. Or, a lesson on parts of a story or writing paragraphs. Kids might raise hand to ask a question, and the teacher may ask the student to hold on to the question until she's done OR she may answer it on the spot. No one is saying, ask 3 before me. Children sit at their desks and work on a writing assignment. Teachers walks around and helps the children as needed. Kids always ask "how do you spell xyz??" Teacher asks students to look it up in their books, or the kids try to sound it out and the teacher corrects the spelling later.

For group work (which is just a small portion of day) -- students are assigned to reading groups based on ability. Strong readers are grouped together, struggling readers are grouped together. The ASSISTANT TEACHER (a huge advantage, i know) works with struggling readers on phonics while main teacher works with other children. Or, the assistant works with strong readers, while main teachers works with everyone else. I like this model because students get what they need.

So basically kids get what they need if they go to a private school that has admissions and that charges tuition and has smaller classes with assistant teachers to help. Got it.

100% true.

We are a family with means. We live in an areal of Northern Virginia without any decent private schools. I wish that were not the case. I'd love for my kids to get an excellent t private education.

This is absolutely not true! Private MAY be better but as a general rule this is not true. Private’s offer great supplements to core classes, as a general rule though (foreign language, better field trips, smaller classes, better teacher/student ratio, more hands on science, etc).

-personally seen same kids go from private to public and vice verse and this was not true for them. Also, a former teacher and we saw many kids come from private to public who struggled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about they write the instructions on the worksheet or the board so the children can reference?

That would require more work for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about they write the instructions on the worksheet or the board so the children can reference?

That would require more work for them.

Many first graders aren’t following multistep written directions at this point in the year.

[Anonymous]

Teachers are doing their best to explain and to run the three-ring circus that is differentiated instruction in a large classroom.

Children are doing heir best to follow along.

When children miss the directions, the “three before me” rule almost always works. If it doesn’t, then the class didn’t understand the directions well. The teacher will see that when s/he collects the written work and checks it. The teacher will then reteach the material and revise instruction as necessary. While not ideal, it’s not the end of the world. And, truly, the number of questions and learned helplessness in a primary classroom grinds everything to a halt of a teacher doesn’t have strategies for dealing with it. Certain activities, like taking a reading running record cannot be interrupted for a full 60 seconds. It’s really hard to get that time when you’re the only adult in a room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers are doing their best to explain and to run the three-ring circus that is differentiated instruction in a large classroom.

Children are doing heir best to follow along.

When children miss the directions, the “three before me” rule almost always works. If it doesn’t, then the class didn’t understand the directions well. The teacher will see that when s/he collects the written work and checks it. The teacher will then reteach the material and revise instruction as necessary. While not ideal, it’s not the end of the world. And, truly, the number of questions and learned helplessness in a primary classroom grinds everything to a halt of a teacher doesn’t have strategies for dealing with it. Certain activities, like taking a reading running record cannot be interrupted for a full 60 seconds. It’s really hard to get that time when you’re the only adult in a room.

It is terrible that there is no full time aide in a first grade classroom, where kids are learning how to read. At a private school, you usually get 2 adults in the room. That makes a huge difference I’m sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers are doing their best to explain and to run the three-ring circus that is differentiated instruction in a large classroom.

Children are doing heir best to follow along.

When children miss the directions, the “three before me” rule almost always works. If it doesn’t, then the class didn’t understand the directions well. The teacher will see that when s/he collects the written work and checks it. The teacher will then reteach the material and revise instruction as necessary. While not ideal, it’s not the end of the world. And, truly, the number of questions and learned helplessness in a primary classroom grinds everything to a halt of a teacher doesn’t have strategies for dealing with it. Certain activities, like taking a reading running record cannot be interrupted for a full 60 seconds. It’s really hard to get that time when you’re the only adult in a room.

It is terrible that there is no full time aide in a first grade classroom, where kids are learning how to read. At a private school, you usually get 2 adults in the room. That makes a huge difference I’m sure.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers are doing their best to explain and to run the three-ring circus that is differentiated instruction in a large classroom.

Children are doing heir best to follow along.

When children miss the directions, the “three before me” rule almost always works. If it doesn’t, then the class didn’t understand the directions well. The teacher will see that when s/he collects the written work and checks it. The teacher will then reteach the material and revise instruction as necessary. While not ideal, it’s not the end of the world. And, truly, the number of questions and learned helplessness in a primary classroom grinds everything to a halt of a teacher doesn’t have strategies for dealing with it. Certain activities, like taking a reading running record cannot be interrupted for a full 60 seconds. It’s really hard to get that time when you’re the only adult in a room.

It is terrible that there is no full time aide in a first grade classroom, where kids are learning how to read. At a private school, you usually get 2 adults in the room. That makes a huge difference I’m sure.

+1

It completely does. I’m a little bothered by the education public school kids are getting. It seems unfair? Have we created a system where public schools kids are not learning to spell or learn grammar rules or strong writing mechanics or history, and a private school system where they are? Maybe it won’t make one ounce of difference at the end. But maybe it will.

[Anonymous]

Wow, it’s tough to remember directions, especially for a first grader. I think you can feel good about the work that you did because you worked hard on it, and it’s okay that you got points off because you missed the directions. Listening for and remembering the directions is something you are working on so that when you get to second grade, you’ll be really good at it. I’m glad you tried the “ask three.” Next time, what might you do differently to make sure you know the directions?

[Anonymous]

I’ve taught in privates and many of you all have a romantic view of how the low grades function. Having earned an advanced degree in education, I’d much rather my child work in small groups and at literacy stations in a large public classroom than have one lecture-style activity in a medium-size private classroom. No, there aren’t too many privates with more than one teacher in the primary grades. Perhaps it’s true in K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public school teacher here with a classroom of 23

Lazy teacher. After groups I always open up the floor for specific questions and I walk around the room and do a few spot checks to make sure the kids are getting it.

Cool, I'm glad we can determine how lazy the teacher is based on third hand info that came from a 6 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about they write the instructions on the worksheet or the board so the children can reference?

That would require more work for them.

Many first graders aren’t following multistep written directions at this point in the year.

Ha! At the beginning of first grade met kids can't fluently read yet so how are they supposed to read the directions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve taught in privates and many of you all have a romantic view of how the low grades function. Having earned an advanced degree in education, I’d much rather my child work in small groups and at literacy stations in a large public classroom than have one lecture-style activity in a medium-size private classroom. No, there aren’t too many privates with more than one teacher in the primary grades. Perhaps it’s true in K.

My kids private school is gender based and he has 9 kids in his class. No, the public school is not better, even the best public school doesn't come close.

[Anonymous]

My kids' private school does the "Ask 3 before me" rule for ages 3-6 when kids need help opening a container at lunch time or tying a shoe or something. Seems reasonable to me. I am not familiar with this rule being used to have students clarify an assignment to each other.