No, I don't think PP was missing the point. I think OP is missing the point. To OP, the point of English class is to read the book and 'love reading.' |
pp and teen has read so far in addition to required reading:
Death on the Nile The Song of Achilles Tom Sawyer Never Caught: The Washington's Relentless Pursuit of Their Runaway Slave |
Not necessarily. If a kid can say “the theme of my book is this” and then back it up with textual support and evidence that they analyze and explain and connect, they have done a typical HS classroom writing task. The cool thing about literature is there doesn’t always have to be one right answer. I might think a theme is A but if someone else thinks it B and can back that up with evidence from the text, they’re not wrong. If I say write a letter to someone in authority about the social issue in your book, I’m assessing their writing skills- I don’t have to know a single thing about that book to know whether their letter was written appropriately, meets the task, etc. There would be tons of opportunity for class discussion and Socratic seminars. No English class in my school reads On Democracy fwiw. Maybe the history classes do. |
No, the books are actually beside the point which is why I don’t need to control what they pick. The point of English class is to connect with humanity, honor someone else’s voice and lived experience, hone your own writing and voice to tell your story, understand your world. |
Are you OP? Because you are contradicting yourself.
Getting kids to read for pleasure is a huge struggle and I’m tailoring my curriculum to hopefully help them do more of that without the whole “we are going to read this tedious old book from 1945 and beat it to death” thing. It’s a good jumping off point for me to know whether the kids are reading books of their choice when they’re able or if they’re not reading at home either since getting them to think of reading as a valuable pastime they should consider doing for enjoyment is, well, hard. |
What is your purpose then if they get to just pick what's best for them? Do you have no role in also suggesting that, in addition to those books, they should challenge themselves because they won't be prepared for college. Yes, as a parent, I think an important part of sending my kids to school is having teachers who think preparing them for higher education is important. My teen doesn't need unfettered control of her education. It's great for you to help develop a love of reading, but loving to read easy books with no other exposure will not produce well rounded, capable kids. I think this is all lost on you because you've decided there's only one way/one goal. I hope my kids aren't unfortunate enough to have a teacher with tunnel vision, who latches on to one aspect of what kids need without considering the big picture. |
That's because some people simply don't enjoy reading for pleasure. yes, even very educated people It's just the way it is. Some people read as a hobby and some don't. You are struggling against something that doesn't need to be fixed. It's ok to tell kids you need to read a book as an assignment. You already received advise on at least making a list of book choices. |
I agree that some kids could do this, but could all of the kids? And, what if they missed an important theme? It could be hard to evaluate? I'm not following how there would be a discussion and Socratic seminar?? If all the books were on say racism, wouldn't kids have to do a lot of explaining (an entire scene or plot) to get their point across if others hadn't read it? |
It’s not a contradiction. In order to fulfill the purpose of English class, which is all I stated above, done through the vehicles of reading and writing, I need them to read books. If kids don’t enjoy reading, they don’t read the books. When they like reading but don’t enjoy the assigned book, they don’t read the books. So if I need them to read to get what I want them to get out of English, I need to find a way to make reading if not enjoyable, then bearable for them. Hence giving them the choice to pick a book they can, if not love, tolerate and maybe have some slight interest in. I’d encourage you to ask all your kids if they truly read the books assigned in English class. I’m thinking a lot of you see Gatsby on the reading list and think “great, my kid is reading classics.” But really- ask them if they read it. My students are honest with me... they flat out do not do most assigned reading unless it’s done when we are in class and someone reads aloud and they have to take it in. For any English book they’ve been assigned since about 8th grade they’ve told me they just Sparknote it because the book is boring and they don’t want to read it. So as I see it, the binary here is not “classic” literature vs. “garbage they picked.” It’s “not doing the reading at all” vs “maybe at least doing some reading.” |
There’s no task worth doing in class that all kids can do at all times. They’re all at different points of learning and have different skills and capabilities. That’s why we work independently with those who need more assistance, differentiate instruction and tasks, and make accommodations as we see fit once know each student’s academic strengths and weaknesses. We endeavor to get them all there, to the best of their capability, at their pace. Which is why one kid’s C can be another’s A. |
+1 Teach them. It’s your job. Funny, a lot of white conservatives want educators to stop teaching difficult texts as well. And we have to fight tooth & nail to get these books in classrooms in some districts. |
To circle back to the point that I should teach TKAM to disabuse students of racism and prejudice - as I’ve stated, I have to weigh the outcome vs. students sitting in my room being traumatized by a story or hearing their peers say very hurtful things that I then correct... but that they still heard. They have to sit and have the humanity of Black people (Tom) justified. It’s hard for me to inflict that on kids I care about.
Beyond that- those are the exact conversations that teachers get in trouble for because parents claim we are calling their kids racists or saying all white people are bad or indoctrinating them or “getting too political.” We really are damned if we do or don’t. I’d encourage you to have those conversations at home as much as possible. |
So, there wouldn't actually be a discussion as you had mentioned? This answer makes me like your plan less. For those who do like reading, they are basically just doing SSR in HS English class and writing some essays (which may or may not have any constructive feedback). Disappointing. There needs to be a mix. |
And we wonder why our kids are woefully undereducated. I always thought English class also included teaching kids to hone reading skills, develop critical thinking and analytical writing.... |
No, I said there would be class discussion! That is the meat and potatoes of English class! A Socratic seminar is basically when students prepare answers to questions (and create their own) using their text and cite evidence to answer the questions in a discussion. They give their answers, piggyback and ask questions, ask each other to justify their positions. So let’s say the unit was on a social issue. Students whose books dealt with common social issues would have a Socratic on those issues. Or they could round robin and discuss how their book addresses one issue va how another book addressed theirs. Any commonalities? Were any opinions changed? How did it make them question their biases? Students are then asked to reflect on the seminar - how did it go? What was successful or upsetting or illuminating? Whose point was one they hadn’t considered? There is ALWAYS discussion happening in English class, even if it’s less structured than a Socratic and just a whole class discussion. |