Question from a teacher about your kids...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and also, I would never try to have a conversation with a friend about the specific merits of a given article without reading the article. The content, sure — “oh yes, Charles Mann argues that the population of the Americas before Columbus was much larger than we thought” but not “Charles Mann has this beautifully lyrical description of Amazonia...” (I’d immediately go “ooh lemme see.”)

And what if- hear me out- this exact thing happens to kids and they go “wait let me read that” and then they too are doing extra reading just because they were curious.

I mean, great, but you’re making it sound like the best thing that could come out of your class are kids reading on their own, which as the kid who would have preferred to read her own book in the library than go to English class (and whose kid is the same!) makes me wonder why it should be a required course. But that’s cool, I was already pretty sold on a classical curriculum for my kids.

You don’t think English should be a required coursewhich? What’s your idea of a classical curriculum without reading and writing?

Oh, I absolutely think it should be a required course. My point is that OP’s description of how her class makes it sound like the greatest upside is “kids read stuff and enjoy it.” Which, if you already have that covered, makes me wonder why bother. I’d like an English class for my kids that would be s value-add even for a kid who read Shakespeare recreationally.

[Anonymous]

To answer the original question... one of my kids (16) reads news articles regularly and I've seen him spending some time reading "Misbehaving" by Thaler. He hates reading fiction and will only read what is required by the school. The other (14) is an avid reader. This summer, she's read Good Omens (2nd or 3rd time), Lord of the Rings, a lot of contemporary fantasy and dystopia novels (I can't remember titles), and is currently reading her assigned summer book - Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde.

I think some choice + some required is a good balance. DD's 8th grade English teacher did a lot of choice as you describe, e.g. read a book about an immigrant or refugee experience, read a memoir, read a fantasy novel. There was a list of suggestions as a place to start but they could generally go beyond that. Only issue she had during the year was for one unit, there was a list of books to pick from and for that one they had to pick from the list and it seemed no two kids or no more than X number of kids could read any one title. DD was out the day books were picked and got stuck with a book she'd already read. I have no idea why that particular unit called for a choice-but-not-really approach. They also had units where everyone read the same book, one of those being a Shakespeare play.

I will put in a plug for my non-fiction reader... look for opportunities to include non-fiction. The memoir unit in DD's class was good for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and also, I would never try to have a conversation with a friend about the specific merits of a given article without reading the article. The content, sure — “oh yes, Charles Mann argues that the population of the Americas before Columbus was much larger than we thought” but not “Charles Mann has this beautifully lyrical description of Amazonia...” (I’d immediately go “ooh lemme see.”)

And what if- hear me out- this exact thing happens to kids and they go “wait let me read that” and then they too are doing extra reading just because they were curious.

I mean, great, but you’re making it sound like the best thing that could come out of your class are kids reading on their own, which as the kid who would have preferred to read her own book in the library than go to English class (and whose kid is the same!) makes me wonder why it should be a required course. But that’s cool, I was already pretty sold on a classical curriculum for my kids.

You don’t think English should be a required coursewhich? What’s your idea of a classical curriculum without reading and writing?

Oh, I absolutely think it should be a required course. My point is that OP’s description of how her class makes it sound like the greatest upside is “kids read stuff and enjoy it.” Which, if you already have that covered, makes me wonder why bother. I’d like an English class for my kids that would be s value-add even for a kid who read Shakespeare recreationally.

Can you tell me what a value-add looks like for you? What is it you want to see your kid walk away with from an English class? (Again, because I’ve been called defensive, this isn’t pushback... I’m genuinely curious.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another teacher here just chiming in to say that you sound like a very good and thoughtful teacher. I imagine you work at a private school? Since you seem to have flexibility in what you teach.

Nope, public. But a great school and a great department which means my colleagues and I get a lot of freedom to teach the kids in the way we think is best and we are constantly collaborating. Current research shows that students read more when given choice. My classes are built around readers and writers workshops - it’s just that this year I would like to move away from free choice independent reading during class to doing all our literature study around books of choice. If that gets them to read more, that’s the important part. They don’t need to be forced into Gatsby or Mockingbird.

Thank god you teach at public. I was worried that you might be my kid's teacher. I'm sorry, but any English teacher who doesn't understand why kids should be "forced" to read classics like Gatsby, Mockingbird, and Grapes of Wrath--even if those books make them uncomfortable--is not a good teacher. Life is uncomfortable, and all kids need to learn that. I'm pretty sure a book like Mockingbird makes everyone who reads it uncomfortable. That's why it's such a good book. I honestly feel sad for your students that you're depriving them of that opportunity.

Mockingbird is harmful to students of color. It gives students the idea that Atticus is a White savior. Tom is entirely dehumanized. Nobody is deprived of reading any book... they can choose Mockingbird if they want. They can also always read it at home with you. But I won’t MAKE kids read a book that is harmful to them.

Then talk about that with them. TEACH THEM. That's what you're paid to do. Wouldn't it be better to read it together as a group so you can point out all the problems you've identified with the book then having them read it on their own and draw these awful conclusions about Atticus and Tom? Stop avoiding difficult issues. You're like the constitutional law professor who doesn't want to teach Roe v. Wade or the criminal law professor who doesn't want to teach rape law because those topics are harmful to women. Buck up and be a good teacher who challenges her students.

This.

My older DD had a amazing English teacher. As a result, she had a very different experience with reading Mockingbird as one of 2 AAs in her predominantly white English classroom than I did in mine two decades earlier. My teacher never tried engaging us in a discussion of these issues and it reinforced the white savior tropes but my DD’s teacher really unpacked it with them. She also had them write alternative dialogue and descriptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and also, I would never try to have a conversation with a friend about the specific merits of a given article without reading the article. The content, sure — “oh yes, Charles Mann argues that the population of the Americas before Columbus was much larger than we thought” but not “Charles Mann has this beautifully lyrical description of Amazonia...” (I’d immediately go “ooh lemme see.”)

And what if- hear me out- this exact thing happens to kids and they go “wait let me read that” and then they too are doing extra reading just because they were curious.

I mean, great, but you’re making it sound like the best thing that could come out of your class are kids reading on their own, which as the kid who would have preferred to read her own book in the library than go to English class (and whose kid is the same!) makes me wonder why it should be a required course. But that’s cool, I was already pretty sold on a classical curriculum for my kids.

You don’t think English should be a required coursewhich? What’s your idea of a classical curriculum without reading and writing?

Oh, I absolutely think it should be a required course. My point is that OP’s description of how her class makes it sound like the greatest upside is “kids read stuff and enjoy it.” Which, if you already have that covered, makes me wonder why bother. I’d like an English class for my kids that would be s value-add even for a kid who read Shakespeare recreationally.

Can you tell me what a value-add looks like for you? What is it you want to see your kid walk away with from an English class? (Again, because I’ve been called defensive, this isn’t pushback... I’m genuinely curious.)

Off the top of my head, an idea of how to identify symbolism, how to write an essay about what a text “means” (or one thing it could mean), ideally an opinion about whether the author’s intent matters to what the text means, enough familiarity with the English-language canon that they can recognize allusions when they run into them, a lot of practice close reading... Basically I’d like my kid to graduate from high school ready for a mid-level college literature course. I was (it was a private school), although I actually got most of that from Classics courses rather than English. Reading literature is reading literature, though — it’s nice not to have to worry about genitive absolutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and also, I would never try to have a conversation with a friend about the specific merits of a given article without reading the article. The content, sure — “oh yes, Charles Mann argues that the population of the Americas before Columbus was much larger than we thought” but not “Charles Mann has this beautifully lyrical description of Amazonia...” (I’d immediately go “ooh lemme see.”)

And what if- hear me out- this exact thing happens to kids and they go “wait let me read that” and then they too are doing extra reading just because they were curious.

I mean, great, but you’re making it sound like the best thing that could come out of your class are kids reading on their own, which as the kid who would have preferred to read her own book in the library than go to English class (and whose kid is the same!) makes me wonder why it should be a required course. But that’s cool, I was already pretty sold on a classical curriculum for my kids.

You don’t think English should be a required coursewhich? What’s your idea of a classical curriculum without reading and writing?

Oh, I absolutely think it should be a required course. My point is that OP’s description of how her class makes it sound like the greatest upside is “kids read stuff and enjoy it.” Which, if you already have that covered, makes me wonder why bother. I’d like an English class for my kids that would be s value-add even for a kid who read Shakespeare recreationally.

Can you tell me what a value-add looks like for you? What is it you want to see your kid walk away with from an English class? (Again, because I’ve been called defensive, this isn’t pushback... I’m genuinely curious.)

Off the top of my head, an idea of how to identify symbolism, how to write an essay about what a text “means” (or one thing it could mean), ideally an opinion about whether the author’s intent matters to what the text means, enough familiarity with the English-language canon that they can recognize allusions when they run into them, a lot of practice close reading... Basically I’d like my kid to graduate from high school ready for a mid-level college literature course. I was (it was a private school), although I actually got most of that from Classics courses rather than English. Reading literature is reading literature, though — it’s nice not to have to worry about genitive absolutes.

Or to put it another way, if my kid is reading Hamlet I’d like to be able to pass her Dover Wilson’s book and discuss whether we agree with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 7th grader does not read for fun - he is dyslexic, but won’t even read audiobooks for fun unless there is literally nothing else to do - can’t swim, play ball, draw, or use a screen. He has found he falls asleep better if he reads before bed, so he often does, but only for 15 minutes or so.

He reads dystopia for fun - reading Gone now, loves Hunger Games and Divergent. He really liked Unbroken and The Hate U Give. He generally dislikes books suggested by librarians and teachers - not enough action and violence, too much text describing how people feel about each other. Whether teachers aren’t aware of new/popular YA lit and so don’t recommend it, or feel like kids must get their fill of it and so suggest something else I don’t know, but we have a really hard time finding books my son might actually want to read.

I’d suggest keeping your list very wide - The Hate U Give might qualify for your list, no? - and reminding kids that audiobooks are books, and that they might like them better than eye reading.

That’s the thing, I have no “list.” It will be whatever the kids want. What I will do is provide suggestions if they are like “I don’t know any books about a social issue” but I have no list they must choose from. I keep up with/read/purchase a lot of current YA and have those in my classroom library as options they can choose from. Some kids like YA and some don’t- the ones who don’t often see it as too juvenile.

OP there are a lot of crossover books- I mentioned earlier that my DS is in MS. He reads everything from MS, to YA, to crossover adult fiction. The books are written at all levels - everything from literature to a th grade reading level with a more mature theme.
I suggest that you provide a written list of options for students who want a list. My DS has ADHD and has a lot of trouble narrowing his choices, making decisions, etc. He is a student who benefits from some help and gentle direction. The other thing is *please* (unless it's an assigned book) don't make the kids take notes while they are reading-- DS has teachers who do this and destroys the flow and enjoyment of the book. Just completely ruins the experience.

I know you’re being helpful but trust me, I know all this. This (literally) what I’m trained to do and have advanced degrees in.

pp here- I know you do, but you would be surprised at the number of trained language arts teachers who assign a book and a pack of stickie notes to go with it-- along with the admonishment that they are not allowed to read past chapter six and must write a summary every few chapters. Seriously, it happens. It's especially hard on kids who already have trouble focusing and rely on "flow" to get into a book.

Agree! My kids are both dyslexic (although one is "stealth dyslexic" so she has gone undiagnosed for a long time and reads at a normal reading level). For them, audio books help them comprehend so much better (especially the more severely dyslexic one, who can either decode or comprehend, but not both). The annotation thing sucks!!! They cannot focus on the book. They are constantly distracted trying to make enough sticky notes to make the teacher happy. What does this accomplish? Also, trying to annotate with audit books is tough. You can do it on Learning Ally, but my DD says you have to print the whole book to get the annotations. I'm not sure what the annotations contribute to the process. IT remedies me of when I was in college and people used highlighters and basically highlighted the whole text.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a mom to three voracious highly advanced readers. My kids will often read 8-10 hours a day for fun on a weekend or summer day and typically 4-6 hours a day on a school day. I think some choice is good but I also think there’s a lot of value in having limits on those choices. I understand your saying the research shows that encouraging reading is better than defining what they should read, but I think that research is primarily directed at reluctant readers and doesn’t fully meet the needs of enthusiastic and advanced readers.

I’m curious and would like to go further here. How do you think this would not benefit your kids, who are voracious readers? Let’s say they came to me and said I’ve read XYZ, I hate ABC books, my favorite authors and books are L, M, N. What can you suggest?” I could give them some options. They know this about themselves because they have rich reading lives already, which is great. But what if I assigned a book to the whole class that they had read already, or was way too easy/simplistic for them? Would they not feel bored and maybe even disengaged? How could I convince them that book mattered and HAD to be read? I’m not pushing back, I just am interested in how you perceive choice could hurt your kids. If anything, I think the highly advanced ones are some of the few who would particularly benefit.

DP- my DS is an advance reader (not voracious, but advanced). At home, I do a mixture of things. In the summer, I tell DS roughly how many books he should read--caveat that this is flexible, depending on the length and complexity of the books, timing, etc. but it is to let him know that reading won't be sacrificed for video games and youtube (he is a young teen). It's a very achievable amount even if he was reading the bare minimum. I tell him that I would like for him to choose a non fiction and a realistic fiction (both outside of his comfort zone)--totally his choice which books. The rest is up to him as long as it's new material or revisiting complex, older material (reading the same graphic novel over and over doesn't count). I try to encourage him toward some difficult texts that I think he might enjoy, but I don't push it. Overall, it works well as long as I'm not pushy and will entertain modifications. So, if he's reading all of Tolkien and it will take up time--great, he can take all the reading time for that.
The key is to suggest, but not push or force. My DS is very clear that pushing and forcing will turn reading into homework and he won't be interested. Engagement and reading advancement is what I am trying to achieve, so obviously being coercive is counterproductive.
I guess you could call what I do, guided choices-- some kids will pick up anything and read it. They need little to no guidance- they are mature. Others, even the advanced readers, need a framework. OP, you asked what our teens are reading. I mentioned a few earlier - but the dystopian fiction is very popular. I've even parlayed it into similar, better books-- Orwell, Bradbury, etc. My DS also read The Haunting of Hill House-- he didn't see the Netflix version (it's a little scary for him still) but knew it was popular and wanted to read the book. If you want to engage a reluctant reader-- Neil Shusterman is fantastic.

Schusterman is amazing! Did they like the Scythe series?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and also, I would never try to have a conversation with a friend about the specific merits of a given article without reading the article. The content, sure — “oh yes, Charles Mann argues that the population of the Americas before Columbus was much larger than we thought” but not “Charles Mann has this beautifully lyrical description of Amazonia...” (I’d immediately go “ooh lemme see.”)

And what if- hear me out- this exact thing happens to kids and they go “wait let me read that” and then they too are doing extra reading just because they were curious.

I mean, great, but you’re making it sound like the best thing that could come out of your class are kids reading on their own, which as the kid who would have preferred to read her own book in the library than go to English class (and whose kid is the same!) makes me wonder why it should be a required course. But that’s cool, I was already pretty sold on a classical curriculum for my kids.

I think you are missing the point. English class is not about reading the book. One can do that on their own. It's about dissecting and discussing the book. You know, critical thinking. That's why it's a required course. It has never been about the reading part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 7th grader does not read for fun - he is dyslexic, but won’t even read audiobooks for fun unless there is literally nothing else to do - can’t swim, play ball, draw, or use a screen. He has found he falls asleep better if he reads before bed, so he often does, but only for 15 minutes or so.

He reads dystopia for fun - reading Gone now, loves Hunger Games and Divergent. He really liked Unbroken and The Hate U Give. He generally dislikes books suggested by librarians and teachers - not enough action and violence, too much text describing how people feel about each other. Whether teachers aren’t aware of new/popular YA lit and so don’t recommend it, or feel like kids must get their fill of it and so suggest something else I don’t know, but we have a really hard time finding books my son might actually want to read.

I’d suggest keeping your list very wide - The Hate U Give might qualify for your list, no? - and reminding kids that audiobooks are books, and that they might like them better than eye reading.

That’s the thing, I have no “list.” It will be whatever the kids want. What I will do is provide suggestions if they are like “I don’t know any books about a social issue” but I have no list they must choose from. I keep up with/read/purchase a lot of current YA and have those in my classroom library as options they can choose from. Some kids like YA and some don’t- the ones who don’t often see it as too juvenile.

OP there are a lot of crossover books- I mentioned earlier that my DS is in MS. He reads everything from MS, to YA, to crossover adult fiction. The books are written at all levels - everything from literature to a th grade reading level with a more mature theme.
I suggest that you provide a written list of options for students who want a list. My DS has ADHD and has a lot of trouble narrowing his choices, making decisions, etc. He is a student who benefits from some help and gentle direction. The other thing is *please* (unless it's an assigned book) don't make the kids take notes while they are reading-- DS has teachers who do this and destroys the flow and enjoyment of the book. Just completely ruins the experience.

I know you’re being helpful but trust me, I know all this. This (literally) what I’m trained to do and have advanced degrees in.

pp here- I know you do, but you would be surprised at the number of trained language arts teachers who assign a book and a pack of stickie notes to go with it-- along with the admonishment that they are not allowed to read past chapter six and must write a summary every few chapters. Seriously, it happens. It's especially hard on kids who already have trouble focusing and rely on "flow" to get into a book.

Agree! My kids are both dyslexic (although one is "stealth dyslexic" so she has gone undiagnosed for a long time and reads at a normal reading level). For them, audio books help them comprehend so much better (especially the more severely dyslexic one, who can either decode or comprehend, but not both). The annotation thing sucks!!! They cannot focus on the book. They are constantly distracted trying to make enough sticky notes to make the teacher happy. What does this accomplish? Also, trying to annotate with audit books is tough. You can do it on Learning Ally, but my DD says you have to print the whole book to get the annotations. I'm not sure what the annotations contribute to the process. IT remedies me of when I was in college and people used highlighters and basically highlighted the whole text.

I’m OP and I don’t require my kids annotate texts. They can if they like but I feel like forcing them makes them go into “I need to find 5 things to annotate” mode and takes them out of the story and really engaging in it. I give them lots of tools and options for organizing their thinking around. Atext ans tell them to pick the one that works best for them and is least distracting or “busywork” feeling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, if it sounds confusing and unworkable, just think of it this way: I don’t know exactly how my pilot flies my plane. I know he knows, but I don’t. If I have surgery I get at a basic level what’s happening but my surgeon is the one who knows what’s going on and all the working parts and moving pieces and they both always have training, a plan, and a team working with them. So if this sounds murky and weird to you, know that it’s much more manageable and sensical to me and other teachers who do it. We aren’t just winging it!

I’ve had enough terrible English teachers that this is honestly not reassuring.

Believe me, this thread is ample proof how bad most of your English teachers were.

OP - why are you so incredibly nasty!? God, I hope I never come across to my students like you do. Also, you have made your fair share of grammatical errors, but I was trying to go easy on you since the whole thread is combative.

But honestly, there are a lot of good points. You clearly are a new-ish teacher who thinks she knows it all and will change the world and the education system. Lighten up.

Not everybody loves to read. That's alright. Some people love math, some people love creating art, some love solving complex labs and experiments. The point of English class is not to make them love something, but the knowledge that they are supposed to leave your classroom with. The world and life, including college if they choose to go, is full of references, allusions and wisdom from classic novels. Why would you deprive them of this? I vividly remember reading The Stranger by Albert Camus in ninth grade, and pondering the meaning of life with my classmates. Or Night by Elie Wiesel, and arguing with my teacher about what was a fact that had happened to him and what was symbolism, and discussing creative license and the holocaust and tragedy. To this day, Catcher in the Rye is my favorite novel, after I was 'forced' to read it in eighth grade. ""Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around—nobody big, I mean—except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know it's crazy, but that's the only thing I'd really like to be. I know it's crazy." I have a tattoo of this, and a huge poster in my classroom. I became a teacher because I feel like Holden, I want to protect and catch all of the children. Violence, sexuality, crime, "phoniness" - one must accept the reality of growing up. Plus, the study of WWII and its impact on literature, the world, people. Salinger literally had this text with him while he was a soldier fighting in the war. The idea of finding happiness in something small, amidst the chaos.

There are so so many classics that people should read... Letting them pick (yes, I have read your adamant argument that there are certain themes, but - I could easily realize as a student that I was being challenged in calculus and sociology, and so I could just pick the easiest book the library had, probably one of the current/popular YA novels displayed in the front of the media center, and not ever have to think or do any level of work in your class.

The Things They Carried? You could start this for the beginning of the semester in the class, talk about how stories are our only method of immortality. When we die, the memories and experiences we held within die with us. In order to live on, we must pass on our stories.
Fahrenheit 451? You're so obsessed with making them love to read ... Fahrenheit teaches readers the importance of books to preserve history, question the present and create a better future. This and 1984 could be done concurrently. So many of these kids choose not to read - there are so many other, more quick, options. And watching shows, movies, and playing around with our gadgets does not exercise our minds at all. It keeps our minds still and thoughtless. Whereas reading literature does the opposite. Reading gets our minds thinking, improves our verbal abilities, focus, imagination. Last but not least, it ultimately makes you naturally smarter. Long story short, technology is diminishing our interest in literature and this is important because most people fail to realize that picking up a book is the most powerful weapon anyone can have.
1984? Especially in this political climate. Teach them to think for themselves. That the government isn't always right. Especially with bring your own device, and in our present day, where technology has greatly advanced and government can be corrupt, it’s terrifying with what the combination of technology and government can do as they have massive potential to fully control a citizen’s life. What a great discussion of vulnerability, and dependence on technology...
The Alchemist? Personal Legend (as he puts it- your destiny in life). What are we dreaming? Are we afraid of pursuing it?
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings? Heavy and relevant issues like rape, identity, and racism, plus from the perspective of someone their own age. And POC writer.
Uncle Tom's Cabin? Teaching about how it is impossible to classify people as only bad or good.
The Old Man and the Sea? Resilience and bravery.
Death of a Salesman? The value of work, the difference in different kinds of work.
The Souls of Black Folk? Right to vote, segregation, education, equality - truly the first text in the literature of black protest.
Narrative of the life of Frederick Douglass and My Bondage and My Freedom? This is perfect for your obsession with wanting them to love reading. Learning how an enslaved and viciously beaten youngster became a free man by learning to read and write (largely on his own and despite serious obstacles) may just give disaffected, struggling students the courage to stay in school and keep trying.
Crime and Punishment? What about if 1/2 read this and 1/2 read The Stranger - debate the meaning of life.
Of Mice and Men? Study mental illness/special needs. The study of friendship and protection, and how it isn't always the right thing to protect your friends - how incredibly relevant is that for our youth?
Jane Eyre? Absolutely the POC should be represented, as you said, but what about how women are in this world? Why not show them this embodiment of a strong, female character? Especially the young men, who will not want to read this.
The Color Purple? Discussing how gender roles and opportunity for people of color have changed... The discussion of sexuality. How do the white characters, such as Miss Millie, appear condescending through supposed kindness to African Americans?

[Anonymous]

Answering the original question about our kids reading for pleasure over the summer....

My 16yo DS read the ticker at the bottom of the ESPN screen.

The end.

Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, if it sounds confusing and unworkable, just think of it this way: I don’t know exactly how my pilot flies my plane. I know he knows, but I don’t. If I have surgery I get at a basic level what’s happening but my surgeon is the one who knows what’s going on and all the working parts and moving pieces and they both always have training, a plan, and a team working with them. So if this sounds murky and weird to you, know that it’s much more manageable and sensical to me and other teachers who do it. We aren’t just winging it!

I’ve had enough terrible English teachers that this is honestly not reassuring.

Believe me, this thread is ample proof how bad most of your English teachers were.

OP - why are you so incredibly nasty!? God, I hope I never come across to my students like you do. Also, you have made your fair share of grammatical errors, but I was trying to go easy on you since the whole thread is combative.

But honestly, there are a lot of good points. You clearly are a new-ish teacher who thinks she knows it all and will change the world and the education system. Lighten up.

Not everybody loves to read. That's alright. Some people love math, some people love creating art, some love solving complex labs and experiments. The point of English class is not to make them love something, but the knowledge that they are supposed to leave your classroom with. The world and life, including college if they choose to go, is full of references, allusions and wisdom from classic novels. Why would you deprive them of this? I vividly remember reading The Stranger by Albert Camus in ninth grade, and pondering the meaning of life with my classmates. Or Night by Elie Wiesel, and arguing with my teacher about what was a fact that had happened to him and what was symbolism, and discussing creative license and the holocaust and tragedy. To this day, Catcher in the Rye is my favorite novel, after I was 'forced' to read it in eighth grade. ""Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around—nobody big, I mean—except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff—I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know it's crazy, but that's the only thing I'd really like to be. I know it's crazy." I have a tattoo of this, and a huge poster in my classroom. I became a teacher because I feel like Holden, I want to protect and catch all of the children. Violence, sexuality, crime, "phoniness" - one must accept the reality of growing up. Plus, the study of WWII and its impact on literature, the world, people. Salinger literally had this text with him while he was a soldier fighting in the war. The idea of finding happiness in something small, amidst the chaos.

There are so so many classics that people should read... Letting them pick (yes, I have read your adamant argument that there are certain themes, but - I could easily realize as a student that I was being challenged in calculus and sociology, and so I could just pick the easiest book the library had, probably one of the current/popular YA novels displayed in the front of the media center, and not ever have to think or do any level of work in your class.

The Things They Carried? You could start this for the beginning of the semester in the class, talk about how stories are our only method of immortality. When we die, the memories and experiences we held within die with us. In order to live on, we must pass on our stories.
Fahrenheit 451? You're so obsessed with making them love to read ... Fahrenheit teaches readers the importance of books to preserve history, question the present and create a better future. This and 1984 could be done concurrently. So many of these kids choose not to read - there are so many other, more quick, options. And watching shows, movies, and playing around with our gadgets does not exercise our minds at all. It keeps our minds still and thoughtless. Whereas reading literature does the opposite. Reading gets our minds thinking, improves our verbal abilities, focus, imagination. Last but not least, it ultimately makes you naturally smarter. Long story short, technology is diminishing our interest in literature and this is important because most people fail to realize that picking up a book is the most powerful weapon anyone can have.
1984? Especially in this political climate. Teach them to think for themselves. That the government isn't always right. Especially with bring your own device, and in our present day, where technology has greatly advanced and government can be corrupt, it’s terrifying with what the combination of technology and government can do as they have massive potential to fully control a citizen’s life. What a great discussion of vulnerability, and dependence on technology...
The Alchemist? Personal Legend (as he puts it- your destiny in life). What are we dreaming? Are we afraid of pursuing it?
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings? Heavy and relevant issues like rape, identity, and racism, plus from the perspective of someone their own age. And POC writer.
Uncle Tom's Cabin? Teaching about how it is impossible to classify people as only bad or good.
The Old Man and the Sea? Resilience and bravery.
Death of a Salesman? The value of work, the difference in different kinds of work.
The Souls of Black Folk? Right to vote, segregation, education, equality - truly the first text in the literature of black protest.
Narrative of the life of Frederick Douglass and My Bondage and My Freedom? This is perfect for your obsession with wanting them to love reading. Learning how an enslaved and viciously beaten youngster became a free man by learning to read and write (largely on his own and despite serious obstacles) may just give disaffected, struggling students the courage to stay in school and keep trying.
Crime and Punishment? What about if 1/2 read this and 1/2 read The Stranger - debate the meaning of life.
Of Mice and Men? Study mental illness/special needs. The study of friendship and protection, and how it isn't always the right thing to protect your friends - how incredibly relevant is that for our youth?
Jane Eyre? Absolutely the POC should be represented, as you said, but what about how women are in this world? Why not show them this embodiment of a strong, female character? Especially the young men, who will not want to read this.
The Color Purple? Discussing how gender roles and opportunity for people of color have changed... The discussion of sexuality. How do the white characters, such as Miss Millie, appear condescending through supposed kindness to African Americans?

My post had nothing to do with grammatical errors! My point was so many people in this thread have very negative ideas about what English class looks like (endlessly taking notes, highlighting texts, never getting to read what you want) that’s it’s clear your teachers were not very dynamic or forward thinking. There’s a very clear picture of what most people’s english classes were like just based on the tasks and ideas of what English class looks like mentioned in comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...what do you do in class when everyone is reading a different book? Granted I was in MS almost twenty years ago at a private school, but as I recall we did a lot of discussing the plot, symbolism, character motivation, close reading, etc. Or is literary analysis now outdated as well? It seems like “read something you love to develop a sense of joy with the written word” is for SSR in elementary school, not middle or HS English class. What’s changed?

(PS: we read Kindred in seventh grade and idk if it counts as a classic but it was great!)

They can still discuss all those in the context of their own book. Track YOUR character’s development. What motivates them? What do their words and choices reveal about them? How does YOUR book use imagery or setting to impact the story? They can do all that and have discussions around big questions (e.g., “Who or what determines whose stories get told?”) in the context of their own book. All books have plot, characters, dialogue, literary devices- they’re just applying their knowledge of those things to analyze how they work in their book and to what effect.

I agree that kids should have some choice, but if they write essays about this you would have to be familiar with every single book to be able to evaluate it. I would be disappointed if my junior didn't have any classroom discussions. HS's should read something like On Democracy or other book about societal issues (e.g. environment) and discuss since they will be future voters. I doubt that most teens are able to write as passionately about a book, as they are able to discuss it. To not have a single group required book is a missed opportunity at best.

[Anonymous]

Also, I’ve taught a lot of those books. Some I would never - Uncle Tom’s Cabin is really just a poorly written polemic. Some my kids have liked, like The Things They Carried. I’m not saying all the books I’ve taught as a class or that are taught are bad/ just that I would like to see how kids approach it when they’re given the choice.