Question from a teacher about your kids...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My rising 9th grader, who is an excellent student, does not read for pleasure. However, he reads the books that are assigned, and even enjoys some of them. Notably, he tends to like classics, so I wouldn't assume kids hate "old" books. They are classics for a reason. I don't think he would like having no guidance. Maybe give them 5 books to choose from or something like that.

I would guess your son is white. White kids don’t mind classics because it centers their stories and experience. Consider how children of color feel about the “classics.” I have to teach and reach all kids. The classics don’t cut it for many of them and contain harmful language and ideas that are difficult for those kids to listen to and discuss in class. At best, they simply ignore entirely the experience of POC. At worst, they’re denigrating and objectifying.

I’m AA. It depends on the book, but also, your definition of what is the classics. I object to the Little House on the Prairie series because of the anti-Black and anti-Native content, but my bio kids benefited from reading The Odyssey and many other classics. I’m the sponsor of the Minority Scholars Program at my school so I think I’m “woke” enough to recognize harmful content.

Sound make it clear, I’m a DP. Not the person you responded to.

[Anonymous]

What you’re considering sounds a lot like what the teacher did when my son was assigned to IIS. I thought it was a thoughtful approach and one that really tried to meet each kid where they were. Unfortunately it didn’t really work. Kids who struggled to get the reading done didn’t do it. Having unlimited choice within a subject matter was overwhelming to the point of paralysis for my son who has ADHD and mental health issues. Just sharing because you seem so negative towards the posters who suggest a list and I have experienced, albeit as a parent, the failure of what you are proposing for kids with disabilities.

I want to also add that the teacher who tried this was amazing and very thoughtful. So I don’t think the lack of success was due to her lack of skill and commitment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 7th grader does not read for fun - he is dyslexic, but won’t even read audiobooks for fun unless there is literally nothing else to do - can’t swim, play ball, draw, or use a screen. He has found he falls asleep better if he reads before bed, so he often does, but only for 15 minutes or so.

He reads dystopia for fun - reading Gone now, loves Hunger Games and Divergent. He really liked Unbroken and The Hate U Give. He generally dislikes books suggested by librarians and teachers - not enough action and violence, too much text describing how people feel about each other. Whether teachers aren’t aware of new/popular YA lit and so don’t recommend it, or feel like kids must get their fill of it and so suggest something else I don’t know, but we have a really hard time finding books my son might actually want to read.

I’d suggest keeping your list very wide - The Hate U Give might qualify for your list, no? - and reminding kids that audiobooks are books, and that they might like them better than eye reading.

That’s the thing, I have no “list.” It will be whatever the kids want. What I will do is provide suggestions if they are like “I don’t know any books about a social issue” but I have no list they must choose from. I keep up with/read/purchase a lot of current YA and have those in my classroom library as options they can choose from. Some kids like YA and some don’t- the ones who don’t often see it as too juvenile.

OP there are a lot of crossover books- I mentioned earlier that my DS is in MS. He reads everything from MS, to YA, to crossover adult fiction. The books are written at all levels - everything from literature to a th grade reading level with a more mature theme.
I suggest that you provide a written list of options for students who want a list. My DS has ADHD and has a lot of trouble narrowing his choices, making decisions, etc. He is a student who benefits from some help and gentle direction. The other thing is *please* (unless it's an assigned book) don't make the kids take notes while they are reading-- DS has teachers who do this and destroys the flow and enjoyment of the book. Just completely ruins the experience.

I know you’re being helpful but trust me, I know all this. This (literally) what I’m trained to do and have advanced degrees in.

Fellow teacher here. If you know all this and are literally trained to do this with advanced degrees then why ask? You asked for input based on their individual children. She is telling you her feedback based on her child's education experience. No need to be rude.

I’m not being rude! I asked did their kids read and if so, what they did. I don’t need someone telling me there’s crossover books (like how would I not know this?) don’t make the kids take notes. I don’t do that.

DP here- You are, though. Her kid reads crossover books. She was suggesting them. And clearly plenty of English teachers do make their students take notes while reading, so how was she supposed to know that you don't? You didn't share your lesson plans or education philosophy or anything. She's telling you what their experience has been. If you're this condescending and patronizing to your students, no wonder they refuse to engage in your class.

Also I would bet money that you are within your first 5 years teaching, and either Teach for America, or some other SJW white woman.

Who said my kids don’t engage in my class? They absolutely do. wanting to teach them better doesn’t mean they’re not engaged. Asking their parents, the people who know them best, for insight into how they read at home, is a huge part in understanding how to teach them better.

Weird also you think giving your students choice instead of forcing Steinbeck on them = SJW. It’s just seeing the kids as humans with interests of their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you’re considering sounds a lot like what the teacher did when my son was assigned to IIS. I thought it was a thoughtful approach and one that really tried to meet each kid where they were. Unfortunately it didn’t really work. Kids who struggled to get the reading done didn’t do it. Having unlimited choice within a subject matter was overwhelming to the point of paralysis for my son who has ADHD and mental health issues. Just sharing because you seem so negative towards the posters who suggest a list and I have experienced, albeit as a parent, the failure of what you are proposing for kids with disabilities.

I want to also add that the teacher who tried this was amazing and very thoughtful. So I don’t think the lack of success was due to her lack of skill and commitment.

There will be suggestions for the kids- I’m just not giving them a “You HAVE to pick from this” list. As with any child with LD, there’s certainly accommodations made that allow them to learn within the curriculum. I would never *not* adjust for a student who needed an adjustments or modification. And any student has the opportunity to conference about their reading or writing with me/ that’s a fixed feature of workshops. Did your child’s teacher have accountability pieces embedded in the unit? Kids meeting in small groups or doing small assignments to correspond with their reading? Giving them roles within their small groups they had to fulfill? Did she provide in class reading time? All do these things, while not foolproof, help keep kids from just saying “I didn’t read.”

[Anonymous]

My teen has been reading for pleasure all summer. He has ADHD. But he has been reading fan fiction which is not okay to ONLY read, since most of it is terribly written. We forced him to pick up a published book and he read Death by Blackhole.

The fan fiction is an ongoing problem for us. Great he loves certain characters so much, great he loves certain settings so much. But only reading poorly written stuff drives us crazy.

He would like getting to pick his own books.

[Anonymous]

Rising sophomore DS here. He used to read all. the. time. We could not keep enough books around for him. The last two years or so, though, it has stopped completely. He just will not read for pleasure. Nothing. Not novels, short stories, magazines, graphic novels. He barely reads the books that are required for school, and some are pretty interesting. It drives me crazy and I'd LOVE if a teacher could help me engage him in reading for pleasure again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What district are you in that doesn't have mandatory books? You must not teach AP or maybe even not honors if you don't have to do some standards. I think you are focusing on the wrong thing. You should intermingle some classics, not just YA novels that don't require any skill in reading. The Hate U Give, for instance, is a phenomenal book, and a great topic - but in terms of difficulty or challenge it is severely lacking. They should have to learn how to conquer a challenging text, written in a different time period. Only being interested in today and today's specific type of dialogue / writing / vocabulary will not offer any growth.

I’m not going point by point but: no. You don’t understand literacy and education. Please don’t tell me how to do my job... just answer the question I asked.

DP. This is an incredibly rude response. The pp's point about kids needing to be able to handle challenging texts seems valid. It's fine that you choose not to have any mandatory books. As a parent of a teen who will pick easy books every time, I see validity in pp's point. Also, if you come on a forum like this to ask questions, you're going to get opinions about how to do your job if you given details on how you plan to do your job. I've never seen a thread that only stuck to answering the OP's question. I'd love to know why you think pp's point isn't valid, based on your understanding of literacy and education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What district are you in that doesn't have mandatory books? You must not teach AP or maybe even not honors if you don't have to do some standards. I think you are focusing on the wrong thing. You should intermingle some classics, not just YA novels that don't require any skill in reading. The Hate U Give, for instance, is a phenomenal book, and a great topic - but in terms of difficulty or challenge it is severely lacking. They should have to learn how to conquer a challenging text, written in a different time period. Only being interested in today and today's specific type of dialogue / writing / vocabulary will not offer any growth.

I’m not going point by point but: no. You don’t understand literacy and education. Please don’t tell me how to do my job... just answer the question I asked.

DP. This is an incredibly rude response. The pp's point about kids needing to be able to handle challenging texts seems valid. It's fine that you choose not to have any mandatory books. As a parent of a teen who will pick easy books every time, I see validity in pp's point. Also, if you come on a forum like this to ask questions, you're going to get opinions about how to do your job if you given details on how you plan to do your job. I've never seen a thread that only stuck to answering the OP's question. I'd love to know why you think pp's point isn't valid, based on your understanding of literacy and education.

It’s just an old fashioned way to approach reading. Do we want kids to just read “challenging” texts or so we want them to connect with a story, ENJOY reading, learn more about the human experience, realize that they too have stories worth sharing? Some kids will gravitate toward texts that are written in challenging language but are emotionally empty for them. Some kids will gravitate to books that are written more simplistically but grapple with some really big ideas. The amount of big words in a book doesn’t determine its value for learning. Books are about stories, about helping kids refine their own writing style, about making them ask questions and realize truths about life and humanity. Books don’t have to be a “challenging text” for that to happen and very often the challenging texts directly hinder those things. The beauty of choice reading is if your kid DOES want or like the challenging text or classics- they can pick those. For the kids for whom those will shut off a joy of reading, they have other options.

I get why people who were in high school 20-30 years ago think school should still look like that, but education research particularly related to literacy shows that this is the better approach for kids. Look up Kylene Beers and Penny Kittle- they are some of the big name pioneers of this newer approach to reading and literacy.

[Anonymous]

So...what do you do in class when everyone is reading a different book? Granted I was in MS almost twenty years ago at a private school, but as I recall we did a lot of discussing the plot, symbolism, character motivation, close reading, etc. Or is literary analysis now outdated as well? It seems like “read something you love to develop a sense of joy with the written word” is for SSR in elementary school, not middle or HS English class. What’s changed?

(PS: we read Kindred in seventh grade and idk if it counts as a classic but it was great!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another teacher here just chiming in to say that you sound like a very good and thoughtful teacher. I imagine you work at a private school? Since you seem to have flexibility in what you teach.

Nope, public. But a great school and a great department which means my colleagues and I get a lot of freedom to teach the kids in the way we think is best and we are constantly collaborating. Current research shows that students read more when given choice. My classes are built around readers and writers workshops - it’s just that this year I would like to move away from free choice independent reading during class to doing all our literature study around books of choice. If that gets them to read more, that’s the important part. They don’t need to be forced into Gatsby or Mockingbird.

Thank god you teach at public. I was worried that you might be my kid's teacher. I'm sorry, but any English teacher who doesn't understand why kids should be "forced" to read classics like Gatsby, Mockingbird, and Grapes of Wrath--even if those books make them uncomfortable--is not a good teacher. Life is uncomfortable, and all kids need to learn that. I'm pretty sure a book like Mockingbird makes everyone who reads it uncomfortable. That's why it's such a good book. I honestly feel sad for your students that you're depriving them of that opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So...what do you do in class when everyone is reading a different book? Granted I was in MS almost twenty years ago at a private school, but as I recall we did a lot of discussing the plot, symbolism, character motivation, close reading, etc. Or is literary analysis now outdated as well? It seems like “read something you love to develop a sense of joy with the written word” is for SSR in elementary school, not middle or HS English class. What’s changed?

(PS: we read Kindred in seventh grade and idk if it counts as a classic but it was great!)

They can still discuss all those in the context of their own book. Track YOUR character’s development. What motivates them? What do their words and choices reveal about them? How does YOUR book use imagery or setting to impact the story? They can do all that and have discussions around big questions (e.g., “Who or what determines whose stories get told?”) in the context of their own book. All books have plot, characters, dialogue, literary devices- they’re just applying their knowledge of those things to analyze how they work in their book and to what effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another teacher here just chiming in to say that you sound like a very good and thoughtful teacher. I imagine you work at a private school? Since you seem to have flexibility in what you teach.

Nope, public. But a great school and a great department which means my colleagues and I get a lot of freedom to teach the kids in the way we think is best and we are constantly collaborating. Current research shows that students read more when given choice. My classes are built around readers and writers workshops - it’s just that this year I would like to move away from free choice independent reading during class to doing all our literature study around books of choice. If that gets them to read more, that’s the important part. They don’t need to be forced into Gatsby or Mockingbird.

You're beyond obnoxious.

+1 She's also totally ignoring that there are many challenging books that aren't "classics." Some kids will only read challenging books if assigned. I think good teachers include a few of those in their curriculum to reach those kids. I'm sure I'll be told I don't understand literacy and education, but common sense can also go a long way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another teacher here just chiming in to say that you sound like a very good and thoughtful teacher. I imagine you work at a private school? Since you seem to have flexibility in what you teach.

Nope, public. But a great school and a great department which means my colleagues and I get a lot of freedom to teach the kids in the way we think is best and we are constantly collaborating. Current research shows that students read more when given choice. My classes are built around readers and writers workshops - it’s just that this year I would like to move away from free choice independent reading during class to doing all our literature study around books of choice. If that gets them to read more, that’s the important part. They don’t need to be forced into Gatsby or Mockingbird.

Thank god you teach at public. I was worried that you might be my kid's teacher. I'm sorry, but any English teacher who doesn't understand why kids should be "forced" to read classics like Gatsby, Mockingbird, and Grapes of Wrath--even if those books make them uncomfortable--is not a good teacher. Life is uncomfortable, and all kids need to learn that. I'm pretty sure a book like Mockingbird makes everyone who reads it uncomfortable. That's why it's such a good book. I honestly feel sad for your students that you're depriving them of that opportunity.

Mockingbird is harmful to students of color. It gives students the idea that Atticus is a White savior. Tom is entirely dehumanized. Nobody is deprived of reading any book... they can choose Mockingbird if they want. They can also always read it at home with you. But I won’t MAKE kids read a book that is harmful to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another teacher here just chiming in to say that you sound like a very good and thoughtful teacher. I imagine you work at a private school? Since you seem to have flexibility in what you teach.

Nope, public. But a great school and a great department which means my colleagues and I get a lot of freedom to teach the kids in the way we think is best and we are constantly collaborating. Current research shows that students read more when given choice. My classes are built around readers and writers workshops - it’s just that this year I would like to move away from free choice independent reading during class to doing all our literature study around books of choice. If that gets them to read more, that’s the important part. They don’t need to be forced into Gatsby or Mockingbird.

You're beyond obnoxious.

+1 She's also totally ignoring that there are many challenging books that aren't "classics." Some kids will only read challenging books if assigned. I think good teachers include a few of those in their curriculum to reach those kids. I'm sure I'll be told I don't understand literacy and education, but common sense can also go a long way.

Do you not get that kids CAN STILL CHOOSE those if they want to? Choice doesn’t mean I’m banning books. I’m letting them choose!

[Anonymous]

I’m a mom to three voracious highly advanced readers. My kids will often read 8-10 hours a day for fun on a weekend or summer day and typically 4-6 hours a day on a school day. I think some choice is good but I also think there’s a lot of value in having limits on those choices. I understand your saying the research shows that encouraging reading is better than defining what they should read, but I think that research is primarily directed at reluctant readers and doesn’t fully meet the needs of enthusiastic and advanced readers.