Spin-off "The student as a paying customer"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I am the paying customer. I expect high quality teachers (which rarely happens) and I expect my kid to behave in a proper manner, including addressing professors properly. As they payer, I can cut funding at any time should neither live up to expectations.

No. I'm sorry you can't wrap your limited mind around the fact that colleges and universities are not retail stores.

Universities and colleges are providing a service. So, the student is a client or customer or what ever you want to call them. They are paying for it. Its not free, like public school and even then we pay for it through our taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a college student, I worked hard for my education. I lived in a shoebox with roommates. I worked a series of unstable jobs. I ate mostly eggs for protein. I wrote checks for my tuition bill and barely kept it together until graduation. I mostly felt like a guest in classrooms. I totally got it that profs were there to write and publish and lectures were not their first priority.

But I also wasn’t taking on lifelong debt. I knew it was chump change for the university, my $4k a semester.

Let’s not play dumb. Massive tuition increases will inevitably change the culture and dynamics. You can’t charge 10x the money but expect the students to act the same.

The professors' salary has not changed that much. The institution charges a lot more money, and in large part that is due to two things: 1) decreased subsidy of state schools from taxes, and 2) students/families insisting on things like renovated dorms and lazy rivers.

But that money is not being demanded by those who teach. Their average salaries have gone down -- no point in taking it out on them.

"Everyone is aware that the cost of going to college has skyrocketed since [fill in any date going back to the middle of the last century]. Why has this happened? This post is about one possible explanation, that turns out not to have any validity at all: increases in faculty salaries. In fact, over the past 40+ years, average salaries for college and university faculty have dropped dramatically. "

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2015/03/money-go-decline-faculty-salaries-american-colleges-universities-past-40-years

But why should that mean that the dynamic isn’t dramatically different for the students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I am the paying customer. I expect high quality teachers (which rarely happens) and I expect my kid to behave in a proper manner, including addressing professors properly. As they payer, I can cut funding at any time should neither live up to expectations.

No. I'm sorry you can't wrap your limited mind around the fact that colleges and universities are not retail stores.

Universities and colleges are providing a service. So, the student is a client or customer or what ever you want to call them. They are paying for it. Its not free, like public school and even then we pay for it through our taxes.

I don’t know of any store where you apply for admission, do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor, I work for my university and for the good of my profession. I don't work for the students, and I sure as hell don't work for junior's mother. She is not my "employer".

Your salary comes from student tuition. I would hope if you got enough complaints about your teaching that the school would take it into consideration and terminate you. So, yes, you technically work for the parents, if they are footing the bill. Should you expect students to act appropriately, yes, but so should you.

For many professors, 80-90% of their salary is via research grants and other monies they are obligates to bring in (or they lose their position).

You and your child's tuition money is small peas, my friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a college student, I worked hard for my education. I lived in a shoebox with roommates. I worked a series of unstable jobs. I ate mostly eggs for protein. I wrote checks for my tuition bill and barely kept it together until graduation. I mostly felt like a guest in classrooms. I totally got it that profs were there to write and publish and lectures were not their first priority.

But I also wasn’t taking on lifelong debt. I knew it was chump change for the university, my $4k a semester.

Let’s not play dumb. Massive tuition increases will inevitably change the culture and dynamics. You can’t charge 10x the money but expect the students to act the same.

The professors' salary has not changed that much. The institution charges a lot more money, and in large part that is due to two things: 1) decreased subsidy of state schools from taxes, and 2) students/families insisting on things like renovated dorms and lazy rivers.

But that money is not being demanded by those who teach. Their average salaries have gone down -- no point in taking it out on them.

"Everyone is aware that the cost of going to college has skyrocketed since [fill in any date going back to the middle of the last century]. Why has this happened? This post is about one possible explanation, that turns out not to have any validity at all: increases in faculty salaries. In fact, over the past 40+ years, average salaries for college and university faculty have dropped dramatically. "

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2015/03/money-go-decline-faculty-salaries-american-colleges-universities-past-40-years

But why should that mean that the dynamic isn’t dramatically different for the students?

Your beef is with the institution, not those who teach. They are providing the same service at about the same compensation, if not less. Don't treat them differently -- bark at the administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have no idea how annoying it is to be teaching, and have a student raise their hand and ask, "Is this going to be on the test?"

The implication is that if it is not, they can stop listening (or go back to their iphone).

Perhaps everyone is not cut out to be a teacher

Or a student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a professor, I work for my university and for the good of my profession. I don't work for the students, and I sure as hell don't work for junior's mother. She is not my "employer".

You provide the instruction. It's up to the student to put in the effort. Mommy doesn't think junior should have to do that. Too bad she can't just buy the degree.

[Anonymous]

It is amazing that you all here think that the $45-50k tuition / year you are paying goes to teaching at an elite school.

This is not the case.

I work as a science prof at a school that is highly ranked (top 25) and charges one of the highest tuitions in the country.

I can tell you how your tuition is spent. First, 60% is skimmed off for "student life" -- deans who plan extracurriculars, famous speakers, gyms, offices of
students with disabilities, disciplinary committees, etc.

Then 30% goes to the school you are in for things like classroom maintenance (keeping the buildings' lights on, security, keeping buildings built, paying bureaucrats' salaries.

Then the last 10% (about $5k / student) goes to all of the instruction. Not just professors' salaries, but also teaching assistant salaries, instructional materials, planning time, laboratory equipment and supplies, admin support for students (e.g. academic coordinators, etc), curriculum planning and national certification, grading, etc.

So if you are not paying much more than you were for that chemistry class. You are paying for the 90% above. Your chemistry prof is either an adjunct who is paid $5k/term to teach 100 students (or possibly even a student who is paid $2k to teach the course) or it is a prof who technically gets paid to teach but really only has tenure because they get research grants and are focused on that, not teaching. If you get lucky you might get an older prof who is past the grant getting stage and might actually have time to think about teaching.

You are really paying for the privilege of hanging out with the other "elite" students who were admitted. I love the students and they are amazing, but my advice as a prof at one of these schools is state school, except perhaps for HYP who will pay your whole way if you are not rich enough to afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a college student, I worked hard for my education. I lived in a shoebox with roommates. I worked a series of unstable jobs. I ate mostly eggs for protein. I wrote checks for my tuition bill and barely kept it together until graduation. I mostly felt like a guest in classrooms. I totally got it that profs were there to write and publish and lectures were not their first priority.

But I also wasn’t taking on lifelong debt. I knew it was chump change for the university, my $4k a semester.

Let’s not play dumb. Massive tuition increases will inevitably change the culture and dynamics. You can’t charge 10x the money but expect the students to act the same.

The professors' salary has not changed that much. The institution charges a lot more money, and in large part that is due to two things: 1) decreased subsidy of state schools from taxes, and 2) students/families insisting on things like renovated dorms and lazy rivers.

But that money is not being demanded by those who teach. Their average salaries have gone down -- no point in taking it out on them.

"Everyone is aware that the cost of going to college has skyrocketed since [fill in any date going back to the middle of the last century]. Why has this happened? This post is about one possible explanation, that turns out not to have any validity at all: increases in faculty salaries. In fact, over the past 40+ years, average salaries for college and university faculty have dropped dramatically. "

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2015/03/money-go-decline-faculty-salaries-american-colleges-universities-past-40-years

But why should that mean that the dynamic isn’t dramatically different for the students?

Your beef is with the institution, not those who teach. They are providing the same service at about the same compensation, if not less. Don't treat them differently -- bark at the administration.

I don’t have a beef at all. I’m just pointing out that the dynamic is going to be different. A person going to BlackSalt is going to have different expectations than the person picking up a meal from a food kitchen, no matter what the staff is getting paid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a college student, I worked hard for my education. I lived in a shoebox with roommates. I worked a series of unstable jobs. I ate mostly eggs for protein. I wrote checks for my tuition bill and barely kept it together until graduation. I mostly felt like a guest in classrooms. I totally got it that profs were there to write and publish and lectures were not their first priority.

But I also wasn’t taking on lifelong debt. I knew it was chump change for the university, my $4k a semester.

Let’s not play dumb. Massive tuition increases will inevitably change the culture and dynamics. You can’t charge 10x the money but expect the students to act the same.

The professors' salary has not changed that much. The institution charges a lot more money, and in large part that is due to two things: 1) decreased subsidy of state schools from taxes, and 2) students/families insisting on things like renovated dorms and lazy rivers.

But that money is not being demanded by those who teach. Their average salaries have gone down -- no point in taking it out on them.

"Everyone is aware that the cost of going to college has skyrocketed since [fill in any date going back to the middle of the last century]. Why has this happened? This post is about one possible explanation, that turns out not to have any validity at all: increases in faculty salaries. In fact, over the past 40+ years, average salaries for college and university faculty have dropped dramatically. "

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2015/03/money-go-decline-faculty-salaries-american-colleges-universities-past-40-years

But why should that mean that the dynamic isn’t dramatically different for the students?

Your beef is with the institution, not those who teach. They are providing the same service at about the same compensation, if not less. Don't treat them differently -- bark at the administration.

I don’t have a beef at all. I’m just pointing out that the dynamic is going to be different. A person going to BlackSalt is going to have different expectations than the person picking up a meal from a food kitchen, no matter what the staff is getting paid.

Expectations of what you get is not equivalent to how you treat other people. The latter is a mark of your character, or lack thereof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I am the paying customer. I expect high quality teachers (which rarely happens) and I expect my kid to behave in a proper manner, including addressing professors properly. As they payer, I can cut funding at any time should neither live up to expectations.

No. I'm sorry you can't wrap your limited mind around the fact that colleges and universities are not retail stores.

Ha! Just wait until OP throws a fit because she wants her money back. Four years of tuition and jr still hasn’t graduated? OP will be one irate customer...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I am the paying customer. I expect high quality teachers (which rarely happens) and I expect my kid to behave in a proper manner, including addressing professors properly. As they payer, I can cut funding at any time should neither live up to expectations.

No. I'm sorry you can't wrap your limited mind around the fact that colleges and universities are not retail stores.

Universities and colleges are providing a service. So, the student is a client or customer or what ever you want to call them. They are paying for it. Its not free, like public school and even then we pay for it through our taxes.

I don’t know of any store where you apply for admission, do you?

Costco

[Anonymous]

Former college teacher: I didn’t take a single class in how to teach people for the 10 years I was a teacher. I got jobs from my research. I note that I took more courses in animal training than I did teaching undergraduates. By animal training I mean literally animals; ie dogs and horses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I am the paying customer. I expect high quality teachers (which rarely happens) and I expect my kid to behave in a proper manner, including addressing professors properly. As they payer, I can cut funding at any time should neither live up to expectations.

No. I'm sorry you can't wrap your limited mind around the fact that colleges and universities are not retail stores.

Universities and colleges are providing a service. So, the student is a client or customer or what ever you want to call them. They are paying for it. Its not free, like public school and even then we pay for it through our taxes.

I don’t know of any store where you apply for admission, do you?

Costco

You don’t apply to shop at Costco. You buy a Costco membership.

[Anonymous]

I don't think Costco has turned anyone down because they had already filled all their slots. If you have the fee, it's sort of a done deal.