Spin-off "The student as a paying customer"

[Anonymous]

I agree with you OP!

Can I tell you the mindset that I can commiserate with though?

Thinking back to my college days (or high school)..
As a busy student who’s trying to fulfill good grades and all the assignments I want to do...

I’ve been *burned* by some professors assigning material or work that we didn’t end up needing to care about. In other words, the professor gives two lengthy reading materials. I read them both, with one taking a *significant* amount of time. I sacrificed and read it even though it was long. Next class, there’s a quiz on the materials.... and the long material is not covered in the quiz. Burn.

1) if the prof attitude is that they don’t care, I should what to read it anyway... that is not right. Go ahead and quiz me on it. Give me 2 points of credit, but don’t ask me to just LOVE to read extra assignments for the fun of it. That’s my choice to make. In fact, because you wasted my time, I did not have time to read extra material that I find enlightening and fun. It is the equivalent of telling a veterinarian or other job, they should give free care because they love the animals, or because they’re passionate for marketing or whatever.

No I do not have free time to waste on material you’re never going to ask about.

2) if you’re going to assign stuff, quiz it all for comprehension or a basic quiz to prove we actually read it.

Again, I will read whatever you assign but when you burn me once, I’m going to want to know “if this material will be on the test.”

-signed, someone who never had the courage to ask that question. But SO happy whenever another student did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP!

Can I tell you the mindset that I can commiserate with though?

Thinking back to my college days (or high school)..
As a busy student who’s trying to fulfill good grades and all the assignments I want to do...

I’ve been *burned* by some professors assigning material or work that we didn’t end up needing to care about. In other words, the professor gives two lengthy reading materials. I read them both, with one taking a *significant* amount of time. I sacrificed and read it even though it was long. Next class, there’s a quiz on the materials.... and the long material is not covered in the quiz. Burn.

1) if the prof attitude is that they don’t care, I should what to read it anyway... that is not right. Go ahead and quiz me on it. Give me 2 points of credit, but don’t ask me to just LOVE to read extra assignments for the fun of it. That’s my choice to make. In fact, because you wasted my time, I did not have time to read extra material that I find enlightening and fun. It is the equivalent of telling a veterinarian or other job, they should give free care because they love the animals, or because they’re passionate for marketing or whatever.

No I do not have free time to waste on material you’re never going to ask about.

2) if you’re going to assign stuff, quiz it all for comprehension or a basic quiz to prove we actually read it.

Again, I will read whatever you assign but when you burn me once, I’m going to want to know “if this material will be on the test.”

-signed, someone who never had the courage to ask that question. But SO happy whenever another student did.

This is a ridiculous post. The prof is trying to educate you, whether or not you "want" to read the longer assignment and whether or not they quiz you on it. They are being paid to teach you and if you don't want to be taught, don't attend college. You sound incredibly entitled.

[Anonymous]

I've said this before. Do not elect Republican governors if you are unhappy with high college tuition. They are responsible, generally, for cuts to state budgets that fund higher education. Hence the tuition increases (among other reasons). Seriously, don't complain if your vote is for lower taxes because you are paying WAY more for college now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP!

Can I tell you the mindset that I can commiserate with though?

Thinking back to my college days (or high school)..
As a busy student who’s trying to fulfill good grades and all the assignments I want to do...

I’ve been *burned* by some professors assigning material or work that we didn’t end up needing to care about. In other words, the professor gives two lengthy reading materials. I read them both, with one taking a *significant* amount of time. I sacrificed and read it even though it was long. Next class, there’s a quiz on the materials.... and the long material is not covered in the quiz. Burn.

1) if the prof attitude is that they don’t care, I should what to read it anyway... that is not right. Go ahead and quiz me on it. Give me 2 points of credit, but don’t ask me to just LOVE to read extra assignments for the fun of it. That’s my choice to make. In fact, because you wasted my time, I did not have time to read extra material that I find enlightening and fun. It is the equivalent of telling a veterinarian or other job, they should give free care because they love the animals, or because they’re passionate for marketing or whatever.

No I do not have free time to waste on material you’re never going to ask about.

2) if you’re going to assign stuff, quiz it all for comprehension or a basic quiz to prove we actually read it.

Again, I will read whatever you assign but when you burn me once, I’m going to want to know “if this material will be on the test.”

-signed, someone who never had the courage to ask that question. But SO happy whenever another student did.

Dear god, I feel sorry for you.
Here's a life tip--do NOT see everything worthwhile in life as an economic transaction. If you do, you are bound to be an even more shallow and superficial person than you already are. You don't read important literature because you're going to be quizzed on it. You read it because it will give you some insight into humanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well this gets to be more of a problem when schools charge so much. $75k all in for a year of school is insanely expensive for most people. It's only natural that they're going to want something tangible back for that type of money.

Turns out that there is some point where an intangible idea like "you must have learned something" isn't going to cut it for the kind of money they're demanding. It's the schools own fault, imo.

I say this as someone with no skin (no kids, no plans to have them, graduated long ago with no loans) in the game btw.

...but the professors literally have z e r o control over that.

Seriously, what are professors supposed to do, go to each and every student's room and demand to watch them study to make sure they actually put the required effort in?

I mean, kind of. Not to that extent but for the amount of money being demanded, a lot of hand holding will be expected. Expect: make up exams, editing papers, extra office hours and tutoring sessions, etc.

That's just the way of the world. Better get used to it because tuition is only going in one direction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most people are missing the biggest disconnect in understanding how universities function.

Parents and students feel that they have a paying customer relationship with professors. Hence the attitude that “My tuition money pays your salary” They view teaching as the professors primary responsibility.

For most professors teaching is not the most important part of their job description - research is. Publishing and research is how professors keep their department rank - and this is what determines the university’s rank in their field. Faculty Raises, promotions and tenure are primarily a function of research quality. Teaching has very little impact on salary and promotion. There are countless tenured profs with terrible teaching evaluation. Professors with excellent teaching evaluations and terrible research get fired.

As long as parents want their kid to go to the “highest ranked” colleges without understanding what this means, there will continue to be this disconnect.

yeah, no one cares

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well this gets to be more of a problem when schools charge so much. $75k all in for a year of school is insanely expensive for most people. It's only natural that they're going to want something tangible back for that type of money.

Turns out that there is some point where an intangible idea like "you must have learned something" isn't going to cut it for the kind of money they're demanding. It's the schools own fault, imo.

I say this as someone with no skin (no kids, no plans to have them, graduated long ago with no loans) in the game btw.

...but the professors literally have z e r o control over that.

Seriously, what are professors supposed to do, go to each and every student's room and demand to watch them study to make sure they actually put the required effort in?

I mean, kind of. Not to that extent but for the amount of money being demanded, a lot of hand holding will be expected. Expect: make up exams, editing papers, extra office hours and tutoring sessions, etc.

That's just the way of the world. Better get used to it because tuition is only going in one direction.

If you join an expensive gym but don't get fit because YOU don't work out do you blame the gym?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've said this before. Do not elect Republican governors if you are unhappy with high college tuition. They are responsible, generally, for cuts to state budgets that fund higher education. Hence the tuition increases (among other reasons). Seriously, don't complain if your vote is for lower taxes because you are paying WAY more for college now.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well this gets to be more of a problem when schools charge so much. $75k all in for a year of school is insanely expensive for most people. It's only natural that they're going to want something tangible back for that type of money.

Turns out that there is some point where an intangible idea like "you must have learned something" isn't going to cut it for the kind of money they're demanding. It's the schools own fault, imo.

I say this as someone with no skin (no kids, no plans to have them, graduated long ago with no loans) in the game btw.

...but the professors literally have z e r o control over that.

Seriously, what are professors supposed to do, go to each and every student's room and demand to watch them study to make sure they actually put the required effort in?

I mean, kind of. Not to that extent but for the amount of money being demanded, a lot of hand holding will be expected. Expect: make up exams, editing papers, extra office hours and tutoring sessions, etc.

That's just the way of the world. Better get used to it because tuition is only going in one direction.

Or you'll, what, transfer your kid to another facility?

Go ahead. None of the best universities are hurting for applicants. Please -- put your money where your mouth is, and walk away. Win-win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of colleges coast on their name and reputation. The quality of teaching and lecturers/professors is not that good.
Sounds like some cannot even be bothered to assist struggling students

They leave the “teaching” to ESL grad students kids can’t understand.

[Anonymous]

As a parent, I am the paying customer. I expect high quality teachers (which rarely happens) and I expect my kid to behave in a proper manner, including addressing professors properly. As they payer, I can cut funding at any time should neither live up to expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you OP!

Can I tell you the mindset that I can commiserate with though?

Thinking back to my college days (or high school)..
As a busy student who’s trying to fulfill good grades and all the assignments I want to do...

I’ve been *burned* by some professors assigning material or work that we didn’t end up needing to care about. In other words, the professor gives two lengthy reading materials. I read them both, with one taking a *significant* amount of time. I sacrificed and read it even though it was long. Next class, there’s a quiz on the materials.... and the long material is not covered in the quiz. Burn.

1) if the prof attitude is that they don’t care, I should what to read it anyway... that is not right. Go ahead and quiz me on it. Give me 2 points of credit, but don’t ask me to just LOVE to read extra assignments for the fun of it. That’s my choice to make. In fact, because you wasted my time, I did not have time to read extra material that I find enlightening and fun. It is the equivalent of telling a veterinarian or other job, they should give free care because they love the animals, or because they’re passionate for marketing or whatever.

No I do not have free time to waste on material you’re never going to ask about.

2) if you’re going to assign stuff, quiz it all for comprehension or a basic quiz to prove we actually read it.

Again, I will read whatever you assign but when you burn me once, I’m going to want to know “if this material will be on the test.”

-signed, someone who never had the courage to ask that question. But SO happy whenever another student did.

Do you realize how uncultured and unintelligent you sound? Not just because you are a terrible writer with poor grammar, but because you have no desire to learn and no awareness that may people were getting a lot more from your college classes than quiz grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of colleges coast on their name and reputation. The quality of teaching and lecturers/professors is not that good.
Sounds like some cannot even be bothered to assist struggling students

They leave the “teaching” to ESL grad students kids can’t understand.

I encountered this problem myself at a big state U. DC, on the other hand, has never had the problem at their SLAC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I am the paying customer. I expect high quality teachers (which rarely happens) and I expect my kid to behave in a proper manner, including addressing professors properly. As they payer, I can cut funding at any time should neither live up to expectations.

No. I'm sorry you can't wrap your limited mind around the fact that colleges and universities are not retail stores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I am the paying customer. I expect high quality teachers (which rarely happens) and I expect my kid to behave in a proper manner, including addressing professors properly. As they payer, I can cut funding at any time should neither live up to expectations.

This post illustrates the issue OP is discussing. What the PP is really saying is that if junior (an adult, let’s not forget) doesn’t perform well, she/he is going to blame the school, the department, the dean, the professors, TAs with funny accents, etc. So long as Junior addresses everyone politely and gives a half-hearted effort, she/he thinks junior should earn top scores and matriculate with flying colors because PP really isn’t interested in the education per se, just the brand on the diploma that was apparently purchased and not earned.