Spin-off "The student as a paying customer"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent, I am the paying customer. I expect high quality teachers (which rarely happens) and I expect my kid to behave in a proper manner, including addressing professors properly. As they payer, I can cut funding at any time should neither live up to expectations.

This post illustrates the issue OP is discussing. What the PP is really saying is that if junior (an adult, let’s not forget) doesn’t perform well, she/he is going to blame the school, the department, the dean, the professors, TAs with funny accents, etc. So long as Junior addresses everyone politely and gives a half-hearted effort, she/he thinks junior should earn top scores and matriculate with flying colors because PP really isn’t interested in the education per se, just the brand on the diploma that was apparently purchased and not earned.

I did not interpret it that way
A school is not a holy of holies
The school, department, Dean, professors are not priests, therefore can be and should be criticized. How will they ever improve if the issues cannot even be addressed

[Anonymous]

As a professor, I work for my university and for the good of my profession. I don't work for the students, and I sure as hell don't work for junior's mother. She is not my "employer".

[Anonymous]

When I was a college student, I worked hard for my education. I lived in a shoebox with roommates. I worked a series of unstable jobs. I ate mostly eggs for protein. I wrote checks for my tuition bill and barely kept it together until graduation. I mostly felt like a guest in classrooms. I totally got it that profs were there to write and publish and lectures were not their first priority.

But I also wasn’t taking on lifelong debt. I knew it was chump change for the university, my $4k a semester.

Let’s not play dumb. Massive tuition increases will inevitably change the culture and dynamics. You can’t charge 10x the money but expect the students to act the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a tenure professor at a research university, and I will strongly encourage my children to go to a SLAC for undergraduate. I have stated in other threads that 90% of my salary ($100K, btw) is based on research and publishing, not on teaching.

Students (and, sigh, their parents) who think that they should know exactly what is on an exam are being unrealistic. Class meets for 3 hours/week. An exam will cover that material plus the additional 10 hours of reading that they are supposed to do outside of class. Also, I would say that a good quarter of my students don't show up regularly to class, so their complaints about their poor grades on the exams fall on my deaf ears.

As for the costs--blame the huge rise in upper-level administrators. Have you seen the salaries of university presidents, provosts, and deans? Also, parents are demanding a lot of student services. The percentage of students requiring accommodations has tripled since I've started teaching.

This
I tell my students to plan on spending an average of 3 hours at home for every hour in the classroom. To be successful in the exams you should be able to synthesize what you are learning in class and at home.

[Anonymous]

There is a growing interest in Exit exams for college graduates. I would argue that a student who has been challenged with a rigorous curriculum and high expectations will do better on this kind of exam
https://www.businessinsider.com/questions-show-if-you-can-solve-real-world-problems-2013-8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was a college student, I worked hard for my education. I lived in a shoebox with roommates. I worked a series of unstable jobs. I ate mostly eggs for protein. I wrote checks for my tuition bill and barely kept it together until graduation. I mostly felt like a guest in classrooms. I totally got it that profs were there to write and publish and lectures were not their first priority.

But I also wasn’t taking on lifelong debt. I knew it was chump change for the university, my $4k a semester.

Let’s not play dumb. Massive tuition increases will inevitably change the culture and dynamics. You can’t charge 10x the money but expect the students to act the same.

The professors' salary has not changed that much. The institution charges a lot more money, and in large part that is due to two things: 1) decreased subsidy of state schools from taxes, and 2) students/families insisting on things like renovated dorms and lazy rivers.

But that money is not being demanded by those who teach. Their average salaries have gone down -- no point in taking it out on them.

"Everyone is aware that the cost of going to college has skyrocketed since [fill in any date going back to the middle of the last century]. Why has this happened? This post is about one possible explanation, that turns out not to have any validity at all: increases in faculty salaries. In fact, over the past 40+ years, average salaries for college and university faculty have dropped dramatically. "

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2015/03/money-go-decline-faculty-salaries-american-colleges-universities-past-40-years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a professor, I work for my university and for the good of my profession. I don't work for the students, and I sure as hell don't work for junior's mother. She is not my "employer".

You sound lazy and disillusioned
The parting of knowledge is no longer what drives you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a college student, I worked hard for my education. I lived in a shoebox with roommates. I worked a series of unstable jobs. I ate mostly eggs for protein. I wrote checks for my tuition bill and barely kept it together until graduation. I mostly felt like a guest in classrooms. I totally got it that profs were there to write and publish and lectures were not their first priority.

But I also wasn’t taking on lifelong debt. I knew it was chump change for the university, my $4k a semester.

Let’s not play dumb. Massive tuition increases will inevitably change the culture and dynamics. You can’t charge 10x the money but expect the students to act the same.

The professors' salary has not changed that much. The institution charges a lot more money, and in large part that is due to two things: 1) decreased subsidy of state schools from taxes, and 2) students/families insisting on things like renovated dorms and lazy rivers.

But that money is not being demanded by those who teach. Their average salaries have gone down -- no point in taking it out on them.

"Everyone is aware that the cost of going to college has skyrocketed since [fill in any date going back to the middle of the last century]. Why has this happened? This post is about one possible explanation, that turns out not to have any validity at all: increases in faculty salaries. In fact, over the past 40+ years, average salaries for college and university faculty have dropped dramatically. "

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2015/03/money-go-decline-faculty-salaries-american-colleges-universities-past-40-years

New study substantiates that increases in tuition are largely going to upper admin, not profs: https://www.chronicle.com/article/3-Takeaways-From-a-New-Survey/246160

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor, I work for my university and for the good of my profession. I don't work for the students, and I sure as hell don't work for junior's mother. She is not my "employer".

You sound lazy and disillusioned
The parting of knowledge is no longer what drives you

Got it. If knowledge is being imparted (not parted) to junior's mom, then it probably means she is doing his homework. Lovely. A completely broken system. Mom is probably mad because she's not getting enough feedback that she'll be able to write junior's papers better next time. And if his test is online, then she's probably upset because she studied the wrong stuff. Is that you, Felicity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor, I work for my university and for the good of my profession. I don't work for the students, and I sure as hell don't work for junior's mother. She is not my "employer".

You sound lazy and disillusioned
The parting of knowledge is no longer what drives you

DP. PP is right, the students are definitely not the employer, and should not behave as such. Perhaps someone should've imparted knowledge to you a bit more in this regard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor, I work for my university and for the good of my profession. I don't work for the students, and I sure as hell don't work for junior's mother. She is not my "employer".

You sound lazy and disillusioned
The parting of knowledge is no longer what drives you

Got it. If knowledge is being imparted (not parted) to junior's mom, then it probably means she is doing his homework. Lovely. A completely broken system. Mom is probably mad because she's not getting enough feedback that she'll be able to write junior's papers better next time. And if his test is online, then she's probably upset because she studied the wrong stuff. Is that you, Felicity?

What does this have to do with some students mother

[Anonymous]

This attitude is why my DC wants to graduate early. Same degree, 25% discount. To me, it’s not the same education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a professor, I work for my university and for the good of my profession. I don't work for the students, and I sure as hell don't work for junior's mother. She is not my "employer".

Your salary comes from student tuition. I would hope if you got enough complaints about your teaching that the school would take it into consideration and terminate you. So, yes, you technically work for the parents, if they are footing the bill. Should you expect students to act appropriately, yes, but so should you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This attitude is why my DC wants to graduate early. Same degree, 25% discount. To me, it’s not the same education.

Its not. A lot of it is now self-taught online and little actual teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor, I work for my university and for the good of my profession. I don't work for the students, and I sure as hell don't work for junior's mother. She is not my "employer".

You sound lazy and disillusioned
The parting of knowledge is no longer what drives you

Got it. If knowledge is being imparted (not parted) to junior's mom, then it probably means she is doing his homework. Lovely. A completely broken system. Mom is probably mad because she's not getting enough feedback that she'll be able to write junior's papers better next time. And if his test is online, then she's probably upset because she studied the wrong stuff. Is that you, Felicity?

What does this have to do with some students mother

It doesn't and they are missing the entire point. However, technically the student is a paying customer as they are paying for a service and the service is an education.