The Bible is an immoral book

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
...........................................[ well they probably weren't supposed to do it in the 1200s-1300s either but that didn't stop the Crusades. Still a spot of bother left over in the middle-east due to these unfortunate events. In the name of God.

#######

One can see you know nothing about Islamic History. North Africa, Egypt, Syria etc were Christian for six hundred years before Islam existed. Beginning during the Prophet Muhammad's lifetime with raids on caravans and then on the Quraysh tribe in Mecca itself, after his death the Rashidun Caliphs waged jihad in every direction.

Between roughly 630 and 750AD, two-thirds of formerly Christian lands were conquered by Islam.

AFTER 450 years of occupation, dhimmitude, and not a few atrocities, desperate church leaders in those conquered places petitioned the Pope to send help. Help in the form of a largely penitential exercise, staffed in some cases by people who were already vastly wealthy, with no intent to forcibly convert Muslims to Christianity [to deal with three of the most common apologist lies]

In other words, the Crusades, which failed miserably, were *defensive* in nature, responding to 450 years of Muslim conquest and occupation of formerly Christian lands.

lay-accessible source Early Muslim Conquests on Wiki.

Scholarly reference: Fred Donner, Early Islamic Conquests, Princeton University Press, c 1981.

Not to mention al-Tabari's History of Prophets and Kings, and half a thousand other scholarly sources, most of which, unfortunately, repeat the relatively recent lie about what the Crusade was and why it happened.

The Crusades were "defensive in nature?" Sorry, I just cant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Also, check out other forums -- there are disagreements all the time - it's a regular part of the discussion

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

Also, check out other forums -- there are disagreements all the time - it's a regular part of the discussion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

Yes, we know you “welcome” arguments.

DP. I can’t get my head around an atheist thread, let alone an atheist forum. After you’ve said, “I don’t believe in a god/gods,” what else is there to say? Which is why you get all the “I’m an atheist, debate me” memes (yes, I know now to post the pic here, but I’m being serious). “Debate” for atheists seems to consist of naively citing passages they don’t understand out of context, making worn-out jokes about the flying spaghetti monster, and repeating endless tropes about sheep and fairy tales.

OP/PP is clearly similarly confused. Which is why she can’t make up her mind about whether to ban religious people from her thread, or invite them in with questions and being deliberately obtuse about the response.

[Anonymous]

Christians don't follow the teachings of Old Testament.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

Yes, we know you “welcome” arguments.

DP. I can’t get my head around an atheist thread, let alone an atheist forum. After you’ve said, “I don’t believe in a god/gods,” what else is there to say? Which is why you get all the “I’m an atheist, debate me” memes (yes, I know now to post the pic here, but I’m being serious). “Debate” for atheists seems to consist of naively citing passages they don’t understand out of context, making worn-out jokes about the flying spaghetti monster, and repeating endless tropes about sheep and fairy tales.

OP/PP is clearly similarly confused. Which is why she can’t make up her mind about whether to ban religious people from her thread, or invite them in with questions and being deliberately obtuse about the response.

I'm starting to feel bad for you. You sound bitter, threatened, and hurt. I realize it is because a central tenet you have chosen for your life is nearly indefensible and unsupportable in the modern age, and you are watching it rapidly erode in society around you. I'd probably feel just as threatened.

But let me be clear about the intention of Atheist posters, authors, blogs, podcasts, and the like: Many people are struggling with these questions and fighting against the ideas that have been ingrained into them (without choice) since birth. If posts can help one of them on their journey, then it is a good thing. All voices should be heard and all evidence should be presented so people can make up their own minds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

Yes, we know you “welcome” arguments.

DP. I can’t get my head around an atheist thread, let alone an atheist forum. After you’ve said, “I don’t believe in a god/gods,” what else is there to say? Which is why you get all the “I’m an atheist, debate me” memes (yes, I know now to post the pic here, but I’m being serious). “Debate” for atheists seems to consist of naively citing passages they don’t understand out of context, making worn-out jokes about the flying spaghetti monster, and repeating endless tropes about sheep and fairy tales.

OP/PP is clearly similarly confused. Which is why she can’t make up her mind about whether to ban religious people from her thread, or invite them in with questions and being deliberately obtuse about the response.

I'm starting to feel bad for you. You sound bitter, threatened, and hurt. I realize it is because a central tenet you have chosen for your life is nearly indefensible and unsupportable in the modern age, and you are watching it rapidly erode in society around you. I'd probably feel just as threatened.

But let me be clear about the intention of Atheist posters, authors, blogs, podcasts, and the like: Many people are struggling with these questions and fighting against the ideas that have been ingrained into them (without choice) since birth. If posts can help one of them on their journey, then it is a good thing. All voices should be heard and all evidence should be presented so people can make up their own minds.

DP here.
First of all, true Christians don't use polls or public opinion to guide their faith. The idea of the belief of God is "eroding in society" shows you are in a little bubble with your atheist friends.

If you and other atheists are struggling with questions - fine. Christians do too.
Atheists are free to post. They are free to question. When I have an issue is when they demean Christians for their beliefs or attempt to "convert" Christians to their way of thinking.
Believe what you want. Question what you want. But, understand that those of us who are believers will not be swayed by your attempts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Christians don't follow the teachings of Old Testament.

This is a thread to hate on Christians. Get with the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

Yes, we know you “welcome” arguments.

DP. I can’t get my head around an atheist thread, let alone an atheist forum. After you’ve said, “I don’t believe in a god/gods,” what else is there to say? Which is why you get all the “I’m an atheist, debate me” memes (yes, I know now to post the pic here, but I’m being serious). “Debate” for atheists seems to consist of naively citing passages they don’t understand out of context, making worn-out jokes about the flying spaghetti monster, and repeating endless tropes about sheep and fairy tales.

OP/PP is clearly similarly confused. Which is why she can’t make up her mind about whether to ban religious people from her thread, or invite them in with questions and being deliberately obtuse about the response.

I'm starting to feel bad for you. You sound bitter, threatened, and hurt. I realize it is because a central tenet you have chosen for your life is nearly indefensible and unsupportable in the modern age, and you are watching it rapidly erode in society around you. I'd probably feel just as threatened.

But let me be clear about the intention of Atheist posters, authors, blogs, podcasts, and the like: Many people are struggling with these questions and fighting against the ideas that have been ingrained into them (without choice) since birth. If posts can help one of them on their journey, then it is a good thing. All voices should be heard and all evidence should be presented so people can make up their own minds.

Well, I suppose it’s a good thing that you’ve moved on from the snack-them-in-the-face ad homonyms to the more subtle patronizing-based-on-your-own-projections? Maybe it shows a slight maturation in both personality and rhetorical skills?

But let’s be clear. Juvenile insults about fairytales aren’t going to help anybody on their journey. You just like to insult people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

Yes, we know you “welcome” arguments.

DP. I can’t get my head around an atheist thread, let alone an atheist forum. After you’ve said, “I don’t believe in a god/gods,” what else is there to say? Which is why you get all the “I’m an atheist, debate me” memes (yes, I know now to post the pic here, but I’m being serious). “Debate” for atheists seems to consist of naively citing passages they don’t understand out of context, making worn-out jokes about the flying spaghetti monster, and repeating endless tropes about sheep and fairy tales.

OP/PP is clearly similarly confused. Which is why she can’t make up her mind about whether to ban religious people from her thread, or invite them in with questions and being deliberately obtuse about the response.

I'm starting to feel bad for you. You sound bitter, threatened, and hurt. I realize it is because a central tenet you have chosen for your life is nearly indefensible and unsupportable in the modern age, and you are watching it rapidly erode in society around you. I'd probably feel just as threatened.

But let me be clear about the intention of Atheist posters, authors, blogs, podcasts, and the like: Many people are struggling with these questions and fighting against the ideas that have been ingrained into them (without choice) since birth. If posts can help one of them on their journey, then it is a good thing. All voices should be heard and all evidence should be presented so people can make up their own minds.

Well, I suppose it’s a good thing that you’ve moved on from the snack-them-in-the-face ad homonyms to the more subtle patronizing-based-on-your-own-projections? Maybe it shows a slight maturation in both personality and rhetorical skills?

But let’s be clear. Juvenile insults about fairytales aren’t going to help anybody on their journey. You just like to insult people.

If anything, the juvenile insults, even subtle ad homonyms, and deliberate obtuseness make atheism look unappealing. You’re not helping anyone on their journey to atheism, actually you’re turning people off.

[Anonymous]

#######

One can see you know nothing about Islamic History. North Africa, Egypt, Syria etc were Christian for six hundred years before Islam existed. Beginning during the Prophet Muhammad's lifetime with raids on caravans and then on the Quraysh tribe in Mecca itself, after his death the Rashidun Caliphs waged jihad in every direction.

Between roughly 630 and 750AD, two-thirds of formerly Christian lands were conquered by Islam.

AFTER 450 years of occupation, dhimmitude, and not a few atrocities, desperate church leaders in those conquered places petitioned the Pope to send help. Help in the form of a largely penitential exercise, staffed in some cases by people who were already vastly wealthy, with no intent to forcibly convert Muslims to Christianity [to deal with three of the most common apologist lies]

In other words, the Crusades, which failed miserably, were *defensive* in nature, responding to 450 years of Muslim conquest and occupation of formerly Christian lands.

lay-accessible source Early Muslim Conquests on Wiki.

Scholarly reference: Fred Donner, Early Islamic Conquests, Princeton University Press, c 1981.

Not to mention al-Tabari's History of Prophets and Kings, and half a thousand other scholarly sources, most of which, unfortunately, repeat the relatively recent lie about what the Crusade was and why it happened.



The Crusades were "defensive in nature?" Sorry, I just cant.



Fixed it for you: Sorry, I just can't make an evidence-based argument.

Are you saying Islam didn't conquer and dhimmify two-thirds of Christendom 400+ years before the First Crusade?


You're entitled to be a raving apologist. You're not entitled to invent your own facts (or in this case, ignore facts that are beyond informed dispute.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

Yes, we know you “welcome” arguments.

DP. I can’t get my head around an atheist thread, let alone an atheist forum. After you’ve said, “I don’t believe in a god/gods,” what else is there to say? Which is why you get all the “I’m an atheist, debate me” memes (yes, I know now to post the pic here, but I’m being serious). “Debate” for atheists seems to consist of naively citing passages they don’t understand out of context, making worn-out jokes about the flying spaghetti monster, and repeating endless tropes about sheep and fairy tales.

OP/PP is clearly similarly confused. Which is why she can’t make up her mind about whether to ban religious people from her thread, or invite them in with questions and being deliberately obtuse about the response.

I'm starting to feel bad for you. You sound bitter, threatened, and hurt. I realize it is because a central tenet you have chosen for your life is nearly indefensible and unsupportable in the modern age, and you are watching it rapidly erode in society around you. I'd probably feel just as threatened.

But let me be clear about the intention of Atheist posters, authors, blogs, podcasts, and the like: Many people are struggling with these questions and fighting against the ideas that have been ingrained into them (without choice) since birth. If posts can help one of them on their journey, then it is a good thing. All voices should be heard and all evidence should be presented so people can make up their own minds.

DP here.
First of all, true Christians don't use polls or public opinion to guide their faith. The idea of the belief of God is "eroding in society" shows you are in a little bubble with your atheist friends.

If you and other atheists are struggling with questions - fine. Christians do too.
Atheists are free to post. They are free to question. When I have an issue is when they demean Christians for their beliefs or attempt to "convert" Christians to their way of thinking.
Believe what you want. Question what you want. But, understand that those of us who are believers will not be swayed by your attempts.

DP says "The idea of the belief of God is "eroding in society" shows you are in a little bubble with your atheist friends." No it means they are reading the polls. The " Nones" are rising quickly while religions of all kinds are receding. https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/13/us/no-religion-largest-group-first-time-usa-trnd/

DP also says: "those of us who are believers will not be swayed by your attempts" Also not true - lots of non-believers got that way by listening to arguments made by atheists.

and apparently it's OK for Christians to attempt to convert atheists, but not vice-versa. I suppose because there's something in the Bible about converting the heathen and giving everyone that CHristians come in contact with a chance to get to heaven. CHristians go door to door proseletizing -- atheists don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

Yes, we know you “welcome” arguments.

DP. I can’t get my head around an atheist thread, let alone an atheist forum. After you’ve said, “I don’t believe in a god/gods,” what else is there to say? Which is why you get all the “I’m an atheist, debate me” memes (yes, I know now to post the pic here, but I’m being serious). “Debate” for atheists seems to consist of naively citing passages they don’t understand out of context, making worn-out jokes about the flying spaghetti monster, and repeating endless tropes about sheep and fairy tales.

OP/PP is clearly similarly confused. Which is why she can’t make up her mind about whether to ban religious people from her thread, or invite them in with questions and being deliberately obtuse about the response.

I'm starting to feel bad for you. You sound bitter, threatened, and hurt. I realize it is because a central tenet you have chosen for your life is nearly indefensible and unsupportable in the modern age, and you are watching it rapidly erode in society around you. I'd probably feel just as threatened.

But let me be clear about the intention of Atheist posters, authors, blogs, podcasts, and the like: Many people are struggling with these questions and fighting against the ideas that have been ingrained into them (without choice) since birth. If posts can help one of them on their journey, then it is a good thing. All voices should be heard and all evidence should be presented so people can make up their own minds.

Well, I suppose it’s a good thing that you’ve moved on from the snack-them-in-the-face ad homonyms to the more subtle patronizing-based-on-your-own-projections? Maybe it shows a slight maturation in both personality and rhetorical skills?

But let’s be clear. Juvenile insults about fairytales aren’t going to help anybody on their journey. You just like to insult people.

If anything, the juvenile insults, even subtle ad homonyms, and deliberate obtuseness make atheism look unappealing. You’re not helping anyone on their journey to atheism, actually you’re turning people off.

Yeah -- if atheists were really trying to win people to their side, they'd take the Christian's example and tell people they're going to burn in hell forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Context matters, I'm sure. Do you know much about the bible? A list of random quotes doesn't tell anyone much, one way or the other.

Also, about that bee in your bonnet. Some threads, like this one are inviting conversation on a topic to explore various sides of it. The thread that appears to have triggered you was the equivalent of someone saying "Happy Birthday" and you arguing about whether or not it was really happy, and why should it be, and how do we even know you were really born on this day no matter what the birth certificate says, and so on. Some things aren't asking for discussion and debate, like common holiday exclamations and traditional phrases like "happy birthday," "allelujah, he is risen," "merry christmas," "mazel tov," etc. They aren't arguments.

I suspect OP is reacting to the many times when Christians told non-believers not to participate their discussions. OP clearly stated "this thread is for people who believe the bible to be an immoral book." Yet it seems CHristians feel a need to defend their book, knowing their opinion is not wanted.

How does it feel to have your point of view discounted in a public discussion group?

Where are the Christians defending their book?

They aren't engaging with you and your nonsense (aside from me because I cannot help myself).

Trying to talk sense to someone like you is like trying to talk sense to a Trumpster. It cannot be done.

I see you've started two topics tonight. Maybe you should ask Jeff to let you have your own forum?

God bless you, PP.

Now its not enough for us to have our own threads, we need to have our own forum? You can't just not click on the threads that are not for you?

What do you fear from us?

I fear nothing from you but think you should ask for your own forum so you can speak amongst people who agree with you. All you do is incite arguments and it seems all you want is people who agree with you. Hence the recommendation to ask for your own forum here.

Discussions of religion don't belong in the religion forum? The thread is clearly titled, and people offended by it are invited to leave before the thread begins. You can't just not click on it?

And "speak amongst [sic] people who agree with you"? That's a fearful (and boring!) existence. I welcome people who disagree with me, and if they show evidence or their points make sense to me, I'll change my position.

You should try it. It's awesome.

Yes, we know you “welcome” arguments.

DP. I can’t get my head around an atheist thread, let alone an atheist forum. After you’ve said, “I don’t believe in a god/gods,” what else is there to say? Which is why you get all the “I’m an atheist, debate me” memes (yes, I know now to post the pic here, but I’m being serious). “Debate” for atheists seems to consist of naively citing passages they don’t understand out of context, making worn-out jokes about the flying spaghetti monster, and repeating endless tropes about sheep and fairy tales.

OP/PP is clearly similarly confused. Which is why she can’t make up her mind about whether to ban religious people from her thread, or invite them in with questions and being deliberately obtuse about the response.

I'm starting to feel bad for you. You sound bitter, threatened, and hurt. I realize it is because a central tenet you have chosen for your life is nearly indefensible and unsupportable in the modern age, and you are watching it rapidly erode in society around you. I'd probably feel just as threatened.

But let me be clear about the intention of Atheist posters, authors, blogs, podcasts, and the like: Many people are struggling with these questions and fighting against the ideas that have been ingrained into them (without choice) since birth. If posts can help one of them on their journey, then it is a good thing. All voices should be heard and all evidence should be presented so people can make up their own minds.

Well, I suppose it’s a good thing that you’ve moved on from the snack-them-in-the-face ad homonyms to the more subtle patronizing-based-on-your-own-projections? Maybe it shows a slight maturation in both personality and rhetorical skills?

But let’s be clear. Juvenile insults about fairytales aren’t going to help anybody on their journey. You just like to insult people.

POT/KETTLE