New Report on Racial and Economic Diversity in DC public and charter schools

[Anonymous]

On a different tack when we talk about limited school capacity west of the Park - does anyone talk about new charters west of Rock Creek Park? Does PCSB have any known positive or negative views about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't ask the question at all. By implication, I guess your answer is there aren't enough white families in DC to effectively integrate schools outside of the areas that they actually live, and even in those areas the overall numbers of white students are not high. Assuming "integration" remains your goal (and I'd volunteer that "integration" as a goal is actually a red herring if you care about education) -- your solution is...?

Not sure which PP you're responding to, but I don't think the issue is identical for every area of the city and every school. For example, many Ward 6 elementary schools are admirably integrated, as white families are willing to send their kids to neighborhood schools; so are some charters. The issue there is integration of the MS and HS. Any place white parents are opting out of their feeder pattern is an issue to be addressed (if you care about diversity!). And, it can't be addressed by just calling white parents racist (I'm looking at you Nikole Hannah Jones). You have to proactively bring in the UMC families with programming and engagement. At the same time, some Ward 6 elementary schools still to not reflect the neighborhood except in PK (Payne, Miner, JOW, Tyler, eventually Amidon-Bowen.) That's also a diversity issue to be addressed through engaging white parents productively. A thornier issue is re-zoning overcrowded HS and MS like Deal and Wilson. There, white parents are basically totally against "losing" what they think they have the right to. I'm not sure how to deal with that issue. Where integration doesn't seem to be an answer is the all-black high at-risk schools in all-black neighborhoods. At-risk set aside seats in integrated schools is a partial answer; but not the whole answer. There, I don't think you can expect "integration" to do all the work.

This is one of the best posts I have seen on this issue. Bravo. It's much more complex and nuanaced

Stuart Hobson is beginning to get more diverse by offering advanced programming. Of course the advanced programming is much whiter than the overall school population. So you have diversity in the building but not in individual classrooms which doesn't really accomplish anything.

I would disagree that diversity in the building isn't an accomplishment. Proximity and interaction matter, even if not on subject matter content. Also, don't forget that there are classes where you will naturally get a mix of students across background "ability" levels, e.g., PE, art, music, foreign language, as well as lunch, passing in the halls (and don't forget teenagers - checking out other sullen but attractive teenagers).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most white parents fear poor minorities, like it is contagious. Studies have shown that wealthy white students do no worse with poor minorities peers or rich white peers. The difference is poor minority students improve with more diversity. In MS and HS white parents worry about their kids getting beat up by poor minorities but I feel like this fear would be resolved if we weren’t so segregated as a society. (If they actually knew some black teenagers and families.)

I think it offers little comfort for parents when studies show their kids will "do not worse" than their white peers. There are Type A parents all over DC. They don't want to settle for not doing worse than their peers. They want specialized attention and give their kids a leg up. These parents view charter schools with language immersion, Montessori, and other special programs as offering the extra that they think their kids need to move ahead. The only way that DCPS is going to compete with charter schools is if they too offer something (anything) that can be viewed as giving kids an advantage.

But those kids do not do any better in all white schools. There is NO leg up!

Are you going to tell me that a kid with a performing arts bent is not going to benefit from going to a performing arts focused school? Or that a family who wants Chinese immersion is not getting a leg up in a foreign language? When their neighborhood school does not make such offerings? Or a math and science wiz is not going to have more opportunities at a STEM school? Is that what you are telling me?

No, the studies show that wealthy white kids have the same learning outcomes regardless of peer cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is inevitable that DC will have to adopt a random lottery placement system for public schools, like in San Francisco. Neighborhood-based schools are inherently exclusionary. Only with a true DC-wide lottery (with diversity adjustments) will DC achieve equity.

I know families in SF and the citybwide lottery is hated! Almost all Upper class
Families flee the public school system. That would destroy the small gains DCPS has made over the last few years.

[Anonymous]

DC needs to do more not less attract and retain upper middle
Class and white families at schools outside of Ward 3. Test in middle schools, tracking etc. I don’t know the answer but Inwill never sacrifice academics, especially after 4th grade just to send my kid to a diverse school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On a different tack when we talk about limited school capacity west of the Park - does anyone talk about new charters west of Rock Creek Park? Does PCSB have any known positive or negative views about this?

When one is putting together a charter proposal, the organizers must discuss the educational landscape where they intend to operate, and use data to show that they would be filling a void that doesn't now exist or why the model they are pursuing will have better educational outcomes than what already exists in that proximate area.

Hard to imagine that there is a case to be made for a charter WOTP. The community isn't underserved in any meaningful way, and the students who live there are high achieving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is inevitable that DC will have to adopt a random lottery placement system for public schools, like in San Francisco. Neighborhood-based schools are inherently exclusionary. Only with a true DC-wide lottery (with diversity adjustments) will DC achieve equity.

I know families in SF and the citybwide lottery is hated! Almost all Upper class
Families flee the public school system. That would destroy the small gains DCPS has made over the last few years.

Exactly. A city-wide lottery system would accomplish the opposite of its ostensible goal of diversity -- meaning that the supposedly benign reason for the new policy would be a false reason. Which means the proposed change probably would not survive a lawsuit. However, if the overall percentage of white students in DCPS were to rise to around 30%, I think you could make a good case for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a different tack when we talk about limited school capacity west of the Park - does anyone talk about new charters west of Rock Creek Park? Does PCSB have any known positive or negative views about this?

When one is putting together a charter proposal, the organizers must discuss the educational landscape where they intend to operate, and use data to show that they would be filling a void that doesn't now exist or why the model they are pursuing will have better educational outcomes than what already exists in that proximate area.

Hard to imagine that there is a case to be made for a charter WOTP. The community isn't underserved in any meaningful way, and the students who live there are high achieving.

It's not a terrible idea, actually, as long as it were located near public transportation to get kids there from other wards. A WOTP charter with some kind of progressive model could be a magnet for the whole city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On a different tack when we talk about limited school capacity west of the Park - does anyone talk about new charters west of Rock Creek Park? Does PCSB have any known positive or negative views about this?

I think the odds are higher than most people here will anticipate. I was in a recent meeting with Bowser where she talked about the possibility of another WoTP high school. She insisted that such a decision would driven by the population growth (i.e. over-crowding at Wilson).

However, based on her other comments that night, I would extrapolate that any new WOTP high school will likely be open to all of DC. Bowser is big on this, keeping the pathways to WOTP schools open to motivated families throughout the District. I could, potentially, see a magnet charter HS opening WOTP. Ideally, it would combine by-right and application set-asides. For example, promise that 50% of seats are set aside for Hardy students and 50% held for District-wide applications. That would balance diversity, equity, and proximity goals. Any Hardy kids not making the cut-off would still retain rights to Wilson.

Again, DCPS and Bowser needs to lead with carrots, not sticks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is inevitable that DC will have to adopt a random lottery placement system for public schools, like in San Francisco. Neighborhood-based schools are inherently exclusionary. Only with a true DC-wide lottery (with diversity adjustments) will DC achieve equity.

I know families in SF and the citybwide lottery is hated! Almost all Upper class
Families flee the public school system. That would destroy the small gains DCPS has made over the last few years.

Exactly. A city-wide lottery system would accomplish the opposite of its ostensible goal of diversity -- meaning that the supposedly benign reason for the new policy would be a false reason. Which means the proposed change probably would not survive a lawsuit. However, if the overall percentage of white students in DCPS were to rise to around 30%, I think you could make a good case for it.

I posted this upthread - SF literally just decided to ditch their all-lottery system. Everyone acknowledges it's a failure. Parents hate it, and it does not increase diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a different tack when we talk about limited school capacity west of the Park - does anyone talk about new charters west of Rock Creek Park? Does PCSB have any known positive or negative views about this?

I think the odds are higher than most people here will anticipate. I was in a recent meeting with Bowser where she talked about the possibility of another WoTP high school. She insisted that such a decision would driven by the population growth (i.e. over-crowding at Wilson).

However, based on her other comments that night, I would extrapolate that any new WOTP high school will likely be open to all of DC. Bowser is big on this, keeping the pathways to WOTP schools open to motivated families throughout the District. I could, potentially, see a magnet charter HS opening WOTP. Ideally, it would combine by-right and application set-asides. For example, promise that 50% of seats are set aside for Hardy students and 50% held for District-wide applications. That would balance diversity, equity, and proximity goals. Any Hardy kids not making the cut-off would still retain rights to Wilson.

Again, DCPS and Bowser needs to lead with carrots, not sticks.

I like this idea!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is inevitable that DC will have to adopt a random lottery placement system for public schools, like in San Francisco. Neighborhood-based schools are inherently exclusionary. Only with a true DC-wide lottery (with diversity adjustments) will DC achieve equity.

I know families in SF and the citybwide lottery is hated! Almost all Upper class
Families flee the public school system. That would destroy the small gains DCPS has made over the last few years.

Exactly. A city-wide lottery system would accomplish the opposite of its ostensible goal of diversity -- meaning that the supposedly benign reason for the new policy would be a false reason. Which means the proposed change probably would not survive a lawsuit. However, if the overall percentage of white students in DCPS were to rise to around 30%, I think you could make a good case for it.

I posted this upthread - SF literally just decided to ditch their all-lottery system. Everyone acknowledges it's a failure. Parents hate it, and it does not increase diversity.

Yes, but when lofty ideals are crushed by actual facts, SJWs ignore the latter...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a different tack when we talk about limited school capacity west of the Park - does anyone talk about new charters west of Rock Creek Park? Does PCSB have any known positive or negative views about this?

I think the odds are higher than most people here will anticipate. I was in a recent meeting with Bowser where she talked about the possibility of another WoTP high school. She insisted that such a decision would driven by the population growth (i.e. over-crowding at Wilson).

However, based on her other comments that night, I would extrapolate that any new WOTP high school will likely be open to all of DC. Bowser is big on this, keeping the pathways to WOTP schools open to motivated families throughout the District. I could, potentially, see a magnet charter HS opening WOTP. Ideally, it would combine by-right and application set-asides. For example, promise that 50% of seats are set aside for Hardy students and 50% held for District-wide applications. That would balance diversity, equity, and proximity goals. Any Hardy kids not making the cut-off would still retain rights to Wilson.

Again, DCPS and Bowser needs to lead with carrots, not sticks.

I like this idea!

+2. All stakeholder communities would be partially appeased; I could see something like this idea having legs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a different tack when we talk about limited school capacity west of the Park - does anyone talk about new charters west of Rock Creek Park? Does PCSB have any known positive or negative views about this?

I think the odds are higher than most people here will anticipate. I was in a recent meeting with Bowser where she talked about the possibility of another WoTP high school. She insisted that such a decision would driven by the population growth (i.e. over-crowding at Wilson).

However, based on her other comments that night, I would extrapolate that any new WOTP high school will likely be open to all of DC. Bowser is big on this, keeping the pathways to WOTP schools open to motivated families throughout the District. I could, potentially, see a magnet charter HS opening WOTP. Ideally, it would combine by-right and application set-asides. For example, promise that 50% of seats are set aside for Hardy students and 50% held for District-wide applications. That would balance diversity, equity, and proximity goals. Any Hardy kids not making the cut-off would still retain rights to Wilson.

Again, DCPS and Bowser needs to lead with carrots, not sticks.

You all are not paying attention. It's already happening.

MacFarland and Roosevelt offering dual-language all the way through high school -- a carrot.

They are adding a few hundred seats to Banneker and building it a new home at the old Shaw middle (not WOTP but not EOTR either, and easily accessible via transit - the way most DC HS students get to school). Another carrot.

The new DCPS-Bard early college schools (accepting 9th and 11th grade applications for 2019-20 was MOBBED at Ed Fest with all sorts of people seeking information. Another carrot.

But it won't be a charter -- charters CANNOT be magnets by law. And because they are independent any mayor / council member can't really take credit for them.

[Anonymous]

High school isn't the problem. There are plenty of seats and test-in options

Middle school is the big problem

We need to have more Stuart Hobson approaches where there is honors tracking and/or what really needs to happen is a test-in middle school at some central location like Shaw

Because realistically for most folks middle school is complete crap outside of Deal/Hardy which is why you have so much drop-off to charters unless you are in Wilson pyramid