New Report on Racial and Economic Diversity in DC public and charter schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the city should offer race-based incentives (tax breaks, low-interest loan programs) for families with children to move into majority white neighborhoods? It wouldn't change the economic diversity very much, but it would incentivise more diversity in majority-white neighborhoods.

That would be highly unconstitutional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't ask the question at all. By implication, I guess your answer is there aren't enough white families in DC to effectively integrate schools outside of the areas that they actually live, and even in those areas the overall numbers of white students are not high. Assuming "integration" remains your goal (and I'd volunteer that "integration" as a goal is actually a red herring if you care about education) -- your solution is...?

Not sure which PP you're responding to, but I don't think the issue is identical for every area of the city and every school. For example, many Ward 6 elementary schools are admirably integrated, as white families are willing to send their kids to neighborhood schools; so are some charters. The issue there is integration of the MS and HS. Any place white parents are opting out of their feeder pattern is an issue to be addressed (if you care about diversity!). And, it can't be addressed by just calling white parents racist (I'm looking at you Nikole Hannah Jones). You have to proactively bring in the UMC families with programming and engagement. At the same time, some Ward 6 elementary schools still to not reflect the neighborhood except in PK (Payne, Miner, JOW, Tyler, eventually Amidon-Bowen.) That's also a diversity issue to be addressed through engaging white parents productively. A thornier issue is re-zoning overcrowded HS and MS like Deal and Wilson. There, white parents are basically totally against "losing" what they think they have the right to. I'm not sure how to deal with that issue. Where integration doesn't seem to be an answer is the all-black high at-risk schools in all-black neighborhoods. At-risk set aside seats in integrated schools is a partial answer; but not the whole answer. There, I don't think you can expect "integration" to do all the work.

As someone noted above, DCPS is a based on a neighborhood school model. In that context, I'm not sure how you can conclude that someone attending a school OOB has a greater right to it than someone currently IB. If a school is overcrowded, the first step should be reducing the OOB slots, rather than adjusting the boundaries. Boundary adjustment is certainly appropriate *after* other steps are taken.

Keep up. We're talking about diversity. If you don't care about diversity, then your point makes sense. If you DO care about diversity, then changing boundaries would be on the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the city should offer race-based incentives (tax breaks, low-interest loan programs) for families with children to move into majority white neighborhoods? It wouldn't change the economic diversity very much, but it would incentivise more diversity in majority-white neighborhoods.

That would be highly unconstitutional

Also unlikely to work - tax breaks and low-interest loans will not lower the cost of housing in NW fundamentally. Zoning changes to allow for the construction of affordable multi-family units might help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the city should offer race-based incentives (tax breaks, low-interest loan programs) for families with children to move into majority white neighborhoods? It wouldn't change the economic diversity very much, but it would incentivise more diversity in majority-white neighborhoods.

That would be highly unconstitutional

Also unlikely to work - tax breaks and low-interest loans will not lower the cost of housing in NW fundamentally. Zoning changes to allow for the construction of affordable multi-family units might help.

PREACH!

Would also be the best way to lower greenhouse gas emissions. Note how urban infill is 2.5 times more effective at reducing emissions than electric cars. (This is for cities in California, but the numbers probably don't shift much looking at DC).

https://twitter.com/CarterRubin/status/1074757485376954370

[Anonymous]

I think most white parents fear poor minorities, like it is contagious. Studies have shown that wealthy white students do no worse with poor minorities peers or rich white peers. The difference is poor minority students improve with more diversity. In MS and HS white parents worry about their kids getting beat up by poor minorities but I feel like this fear would be resolved if we weren’t so segregated as a society. (If they actually knew some black teenagers and families.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't ask the question at all. By implication, I guess your answer is there aren't enough white families in DC to effectively integrate schools outside of the areas that they actually live, and even in those areas the overall numbers of white students are not high. Assuming "integration" remains your goal (and I'd volunteer that "integration" as a goal is actually a red herring if you care about education) -- your solution is...?

Not sure which PP you're responding to, but I don't think the issue is identical for every area of the city and every school. For example, many Ward 6 elementary schools are admirably integrated, as white families are willing to send their kids to neighborhood schools; so are some charters. The issue there is integration of the MS and HS. Any place white parents are opting out of their feeder pattern is an issue to be addressed (if you care about diversity!). And, it can't be addressed by just calling white parents racist (I'm looking at you Nikole Hannah Jones). You have to proactively bring in the UMC families with programming and engagement. At the same time, some Ward 6 elementary schools still to not reflect the neighborhood except in PK (Payne, Miner, JOW, Tyler, eventually Amidon-Bowen.) That's also a diversity issue to be addressed through engaging white parents productively. A thornier issue is re-zoning overcrowded HS and MS like Deal and Wilson. There, white parents are basically totally against "losing" what they think they have the right to. I'm not sure how to deal with that issue. Where integration doesn't seem to be an answer is the all-black high at-risk schools in all-black neighborhoods. At-risk set aside seats in integrated schools is a partial answer; but not the whole answer. There, I don't think you can expect "integration" to do all the work.

As someone noted above, DCPS is a based on a neighborhood school model. In that context, I'm not sure how you can conclude that someone attending a school OOB has a greater right to it than someone currently IB. If a school is overcrowded, the first step should be reducing the OOB slots, rather than adjusting the boundaries. Boundary adjustment is certainly appropriate *after* other steps are taken.

Keep up. We're talking about diversity. If you don't care about diversity, then your point makes sense. If you DO care about diversity, then changing boundaries would be on the table.

Caring about the value and importance of neighborhood schools does NOT equal racism or not caring about diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the city should offer race-based incentives (tax breaks, low-interest loan programs) for families with children to move into majority white neighborhoods? It wouldn't change the economic diversity very much, but it would incentivise more diversity in majority-white neighborhoods.

That would be highly unconstitutional

Then why would eliminating neighborhood schools, and going to a city-wide school model be constitutional, when it would not increase city-wide diversity in schools? Remember, only 10% of DCPS students are white. What would eliminating neighborhood schools accomplish, as a practical matter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most white parents fear poor minorities, like it is contagious. Studies have shown that wealthy white students do no worse with poor minorities peers or rich white peers. The difference is poor minority students improve with more diversity. In MS and HS white parents worry about their kids getting beat up by poor minorities but I feel like this fear would be resolved if we weren’t so segregated as a society. (If they actually knew some black teenagers and families.)

I think it offers little comfort for parents when studies show their kids will "do not worse" than their white peers. There are Type A parents all over DC. They don't want to settle for not doing worse than their peers. They want specialized attention and give their kids a leg up. These parents view charter schools with language immersion, Montessori, and other special programs as offering the extra that they think their kids need to move ahead. The only way that DCPS is going to compete with charter schools is if they too offer something (anything) that can be viewed as giving kids an advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the city should offer race-based incentives (tax breaks, low-interest loan programs) for families with children to move into majority white neighborhoods? It wouldn't change the economic diversity very much, but it would incentivise more diversity in majority-white neighborhoods.

That would be highly unconstitutional

Then why would eliminating neighborhood schools, and going to a city-wide school model be constitutional, when it would not increase city-wide diversity in schools? Remember, only 10% of DCPS students are white. What would eliminating neighborhood schools accomplish, as a practical matter?

Seriously? Eliminating neighborhood schools would not be unconstitutional, it'd just be a bad idea.

As a practical matter it would devastate neighborhoods, cause a population exodus, and lower tax receipts thereby becoming a vicious cycle that would cause long term harm to the city.

47% of the city is black and 45% is white. If you want to increase diversity in the public school system then there are two choices: getting more black students out of the system and into private schools or getting more white kids into the system and out of private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the city should offer race-based incentives (tax breaks, low-interest loan programs) for families with children to move into majority white neighborhoods? It wouldn't change the economic diversity very much, but it would incentivise more diversity in majority-white neighborhoods.

That would be highly unconstitutional

Then why would eliminating neighborhood schools, and going to a city-wide school model be constitutional, when it would not increase city-wide diversity in schools? Remember, only 10% of DCPS students are white. What would eliminating neighborhood schools accomplish, as a practical matter?

Seriously? Eliminating neighborhood schools would not be unconstitutional, it'd just be a bad idea.

As a practical matter it would devastate neighborhoods, cause a population exodus, and lower tax receipts thereby becoming a vicious cycle that would cause long term harm to the city.

47% of the city is black and 45% is white. If you want to increase diversity in the public school system then there are two choices: getting more black students out of the system and into private schools or getting more white kids into the system and out of private schools.

Sure that might help some, but keep in mind that the school-aged population in DC is much more black than the above numbers suggest. Some of the 45% white residents are childless millennials, or those who don't yet have school-aged kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most white parents fear poor minorities, like it is contagious. Studies have shown that wealthy white students do no worse with poor minorities peers or rich white peers. The difference is poor minority students improve with more diversity. In MS and HS white parents worry about their kids getting beat up by poor minorities but I feel like this fear would be resolved if we weren’t so segregated as a society. (If they actually knew some black teenagers and families.)

I think it offers little comfort for parents when studies show their kids will "do not worse" than their white peers. There are Type A parents all over DC. They don't want to settle for not doing worse than their peers. They want specialized attention and give their kids a leg up. These parents view charter schools with language immersion, Montessori, and other special programs as offering the extra that they think their kids need to move ahead. The only way that DCPS is going to compete with charter schools is if they too offer something (anything) that can be viewed as giving kids an advantage.

But those kids do not do any better in all white schools. There is NO leg up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most white parents fear poor minorities, like it is contagious. Studies have shown that wealthy white students do no worse with poor minorities peers or rich white peers. The difference is poor minority students improve with more diversity. In MS and HS white parents worry about their kids getting beat up by poor minorities but I feel like this fear would be resolved if we weren’t so segregated as a society. (If they actually knew some black teenagers and families.)

I think it offers little comfort for parents when studies show their kids will "do not worse" than their white peers. There are Type A parents all over DC. They don't want to settle for not doing worse than their peers. They want specialized attention and give their kids a leg up. These parents view charter schools with language immersion, Montessori, and other special programs as offering the extra that they think their kids need to move ahead. The only way that DCPS is going to compete with charter schools is if they too offer something (anything) that can be viewed as giving kids an advantage.

But those kids do not do any better in all white schools. There is NO leg up!

Are you going to tell me that a kid with a performing arts bent is not going to benefit from going to a performing arts focused school? Or that a family who wants Chinese immersion is not getting a leg up in a foreign language? When their neighborhood school does not make such offerings? Or a math and science wiz is not going to have more opportunities at a STEM school? Is that what you are telling me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most white parents fear poor minorities, like it is contagious. Studies have shown that wealthy white students do no worse with poor minorities peers or rich white peers. The difference is poor minority students improve with more diversity. In MS and HS white parents worry about their kids getting beat up by poor minorities but I feel like this fear would be resolved if we weren’t so segregated as a society. (If they actually knew some black teenagers and families.)

I think it offers little comfort for parents when studies show their kids will "do not worse" than their white peers. There are Type A parents all over DC. They don't want to settle for not doing worse than their peers. They want specialized attention and give their kids a leg up. These parents view charter schools with language immersion, Montessori, and other special programs as offering the extra that they think their kids need to move ahead. The only way that DCPS is going to compete with charter schools is if they too offer something (anything) that can be viewed as giving kids an advantage.

But those kids do not do any better in all white schools. There is NO leg up!

Are you going to tell me that a kid with a performing arts bent is not going to benefit from going to a performing arts focused school? Or that a family who wants Chinese immersion is not getting a leg up in a foreign language? When their neighborhood school does not make such offerings? Or a math and science wiz is not going to have more opportunities at a STEM school? Is that what you are telling me?

Or that they wouldn't benefit from honors classes in 9th grade if they're capable of accelerated work?

[Anonymous]

A couple posters have touched on this but here's the thing: housing demand and costs are rising across most of DC, including at the top end, generally west of Rock Creek Park, and there is much greater participation in DCPS west of Rock Creek Park overall.

Higher-bracket incomes and race are highly correlated in this area - we know it skews heavily white with the rest of the demographic mix you see at your professional jobs. Overlay that with historical segregation, and there is minimal economic diversity west of Rock Creek Park and the racial and demographic trends correlated with that.

This means that all the "diversity" west of Rock Creek Park (that isn't assimilated/high income) is people taking the excess capacity seats in these DCPS schools. But we are quickly approaching the time when there is no excess capacity.

So if you want diversity, you have to engineer access rules like the lottery or boundaries differently. It's mostly unfixable because it comes at the nexus of geography, income, and race.

My view as someone with kids in the feeder systems further east is to give up on the segregated west. the factors that exclude us are unfixable. Those schools aren't a solution and there's much more to be gained by integrating schools east of Rock Creek Park and helping your neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You didn't ask the question at all. By implication, I guess your answer is there aren't enough white families in DC to effectively integrate schools outside of the areas that they actually live, and even in those areas the overall numbers of white students are not high. Assuming "integration" remains your goal (and I'd volunteer that "integration" as a goal is actually a red herring if you care about education) -- your solution is...?

Not sure which PP you're responding to, but I don't think the issue is identical for every area of the city and every school. For example, many Ward 6 elementary schools are admirably integrated, as white families are willing to send their kids to neighborhood schools; so are some charters. The issue there is integration of the MS and HS. Any place white parents are opting out of their feeder pattern is an issue to be addressed (if you care about diversity!). And, it can't be addressed by just calling white parents racist (I'm looking at you Nikole Hannah Jones). You have to proactively bring in the UMC families with programming and engagement. At the same time, some Ward 6 elementary schools still to not reflect the neighborhood except in PK (Payne, Miner, JOW, Tyler, eventually Amidon-Bowen.) That's also a diversity issue to be addressed through engaging white parents productively. A thornier issue is re-zoning overcrowded HS and MS like Deal and Wilson. There, white parents are basically totally against "losing" what they think they have the right to. I'm not sure how to deal with that issue. Where integration doesn't seem to be an answer is the all-black high at-risk schools in all-black neighborhoods. At-risk set aside seats in integrated schools is a partial answer; but not the whole answer. There, I don't think you can expect "integration" to do all the work.

This is one of the best posts I have seen on this issue. Bravo. It's much more complex and nuanaced

Stuart Hobson is beginning to get more diverse by offering advanced programming. Of course the advanced programming is much whiter than the overall school population. So you have diversity in the building but not in individual classrooms which doesn't really accomplish anything.