Controversial opinion: College and University edition

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurriculars/activities/sports don't matter one bit. Grades and test scores are the only thing most schools really look at.

You've gotta be kidding. The first cut is race and gender. Even very high grades and test scores won't get applicants belonging to certain groups into a selective school.

Yes but hopefully the lawsuit against Harvard will end their despicable bias against Asians.

Don't make it about the asians....it's about the process and inherent bias. 30 years ago it was the jews, today it is the asians, tomorrow it could be any minority group that is outperforming their quota.

But the lawsuit may result in Harvard being 70% or more ASian American like TJ. If you want that, then fine ..........

I see we’ve found the racist imbecile on the thread

The Asian Americans as have significantly higher scores per capita than the other applicants. Same with the Jews who were cut out of harvard and the law school in the late 50s and early 60s. That was done away with so by the time I made it to Harvard my law school class was predominantly Jewish. The lawsuit is about AAs who have higher GPAs and stats than other applicants but are routinely cut out. The class action has demonstrated that the AAs applicants are marked down in character by the readers ("boring") whether intentional or not, conscious or not, and that their scores and GPA are higher per capita than others who were admitted. If Harvard wins at the trial level, which it will because it's an Obama appointee hearing it, then it will be appealed to the first circuit where it will be affirmed because ithe first circuit is the same, and then to SCOTUS where it will be reversed. The result will be far more Asian Americans in each class, just as at TJ right now, than before. And fewer URMs, WASPs, first generation, international, low-income, questbridge, etc. There are only a finite no. of seats. Read up on the case please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College aren't behind the ridiculous AP expectations, parents are. Colleges admit the best of who applies. Parents are the ones pushing their DDs and DSs to have more APs than the last kid who got in.

Going to a school that limits how many APs you can take in a year is a great thing for stress and wellness.

I agree with what you said about the value of AP limits. (Though high schools get measured by AP participation so it won’t happen any time soon.) But when colleges give weight and actual credit for AP they are part of it. When you can load up on credits in HS and save a semester or two of insanely expensive tuition it’s hard not to try. My first made himself miserable with APs but it did probably get him into the school he really wanted. He didn’t make up the rules, nor did we. He heard ‘most rigor possible at your school’ and the importance of class rank and at his school that meant APs.

FCPS isn't even reporting the rank anymore. I know people here say admissions guesses or knows, but that can't be so for every college.

I interpret the rigor comment as get to the AP at some point in each subject. I don't think it means take all 5 history APs, 4 science APs, etc. [/quote]


There's a simple answer. Every year the high schools provide a "class profile" sheet to the universities and colleges. It's a bar chart showing where the rising senior class stands in terms of GPA (because not all high schools are equal as you know). So the chart will show that a 4.44 means that Largo is in the top 1% of the class or the top 25% of the class in the case of TJ. The first thing that the readers hired by college admissions officers do is pull out the ACT, SAT and SAT II scores and put them at the top. Then they align the student's end of junior year GPA across the class profile and figure out their class rank. Takes less than 2 seconds. In most large universities, if the student doesn't make that cull then the application doesn't proceed. Other facts that might be culled out at that point are URM, Questbridge (separate application program), first-generation, legacy if significant bucks and "development" if the dad is Steve Jobs and the University thinks a building in the future might be in the offing. Only after meeting the University's standards for GPA and class rank does the application go to the next stage for an EC check. Lastly letters of recommendations and the essay. When colleges are receiving 35,000 applications a year they can't read all of them. The average application at a SLAC gets 6 minutes of read time. Less so at a popular university. The bar charts are all explained in Dean J.'s materials at UVA. That's why they can tell you "FCPS doesn't rank!" but then when the class is formed, the President of the University will say that 94.6% of the admitted or incoming class is in the top ten percent of their high school class. Also, each FCPS counselor writes their own letter of recommendation and indicates where the student stands vis-a-vis their own class in their own statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College aren't behind the ridiculous AP expectations, parents are. Colleges admit the best of who applies. Parents are the ones pushing their DDs and DSs to have more APs than the last kid who got in.

Going to a school that limits how many APs you can take in a year is a great thing for stress and wellness.

I agree with what you said about the value of AP limits. (Though high schools get measured by AP participation so it won’t happen any time soon.) But when colleges give weight and actual credit for AP they are part of it. When you can load up on credits in HS and save a semester or two of insanely expensive tuition it’s hard not to try. My first made himself miserable with APs but it did probably get him into the school he really wanted. He didn’t make up the rules, nor did we. He heard ‘most rigor possible at your school’ and the importance of class rank and at his school that meant APs.

FCPS isn't even reporting the rank anymore. I know people here say admissions guesses or knows, but that can't be so for every college.

I interpret the rigor comment as get to the AP at some point in each subject. I don't think it means take all 5 history APs, 4 science APs, etc. [/quote]


There's a simple answer. Every year the high schools provide a "class profile" sheet to the universities and colleges. It's a bar chart showing where the rising senior class stands in terms of GPA (because not all high schools are equal as you know). So the chart will show that a 4.44 means that Largo is in the top 1% of the class or the top 25% of the class in the case of TJ. The first thing that the readers hired by college admissions officers do is pull out the ACT, SAT and SAT II scores and put them at the top. Then they align the student's end of junior year GPA across the class profile and figure out their class rank. Takes less than 2 seconds. In most large universities, if the student doesn't make that cull then the application doesn't proceed. Other facts that might be culled out at that point are URM, Questbridge (separate application program), first-generation, legacy if significant bucks and "development" if the dad is Steve Jobs and the University thinks a building in the future might be in the offing. Only after meeting the University's standards for GPA and class rank does the application go to the next stage for an EC check. Lastly letters of recommendations and the essay. When colleges are receiving 35,000 applications a year they can't read all of them. The average application at a SLAC gets 6 minutes of read time. Less so at a popular university. The bar charts are all explained in Dean J.'s materials at UVA. That's why they can tell you "FCPS doesn't rank!" but then when the class is formed, the President of the University will say that 94.6% of the admitted or incoming class is in the top ten percent of their high school class. Also, each FCPS counselor writes their own letter of recommendation and indicates where the student stands vis-a-vis their own class in their own statement.

Maybe you are one of the pessimistic people who think the colleges are lying about everything. I think that the schools that say they read the applications holistically are actually doing so.

Vanderbilt gets 35,000 applications.



Columbia gets 38,000.



Seems like they have enough people to read all the applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurriculars/activities/sports don't matter one bit. Grades and test scores are the only thing most schools really look at.

You've gotta be kidding. The first cut is race and gender. Even very high grades and test scores won't get applicants belonging to certain groups into a selective school.

Yes but hopefully the lawsuit against Harvard will end their despicable bias against Asians.

Don't make it about the asians....it's about the process and inherent bias. 30 years ago it was the jews, today it is the asians, tomorrow it could be any minority group that is outperforming their quota.

But the lawsuit may result in Harvard being 70% or more ASian American like TJ. If you want that, then fine ..........

I see we’ve found the racist imbecile on the thread

The Asian Americans as have significantly higher scores per capita than the other applicants. Same with the Jews who were cut out of harvard and the law school in the late 50s and early 60s. That was done away with so by the time I made it to Harvard my law school class was predominantly Jewish. The lawsuit is about AAs who have higher GPAs and stats than other applicants but are routinely cut out. The class action has demonstrated that the AAs applicants are marked down in character by the readers ("boring") whether intentional or not, conscious or not, and that their scores and GPA are higher per capita than others who were admitted. If Harvard wins at the trial level, which it will because it's an Obama appointee hearing it, then it will be appealed to the first circuit where it will be affirmed because ithe first circuit is the same, and then to SCOTUS where it will be reversed. The result will be far more Asian Americans in each class, just as at TJ right now, than before. And fewer URMs, WASPs, first generation, international, low-income, questbridge, etc. There are only a finite no. of seats. Read up on the case please.

They will just go test-optional.

[Anonymous]

Maybe then the College Board and ACT will implode then.

[Anonymous]

Regarding how colleges read all those applications, the answer is that they hire tons of temporary employees as readers. You actually have no idea who is reading your child's application or what their training or background is. There's a lady in my neighborhood who was asked to apply as a temporary reader (focussed on reading and scoring the essays, and deciding which ones would move forward to an actual full time admissions person) for a well-known SLAC based on the fact that she was active in the parent association -- which is fine, except that she apparently thought lots of things were boring. She liked essays about TV shows, movies, etc. Not so big on history, classical music, etc. I think that the idea that Asian americans don't score high and are perceived as 'boring' might come out of this aspect of the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurriculars/activities/sports don't matter one bit. Grades and test scores are the only thing most schools really look at.

You've gotta be kidding. The first cut is race and gender. Even very high grades and test scores won't get applicants belonging to certain groups into a selective school.

Yes but hopefully the lawsuit against Harvard will end their despicable bias against Asians.

Don't make it about the asians....it's about the process and inherent bias. 30 years ago it was the jews, today it is the asians, tomorrow it could be any minority group that is outperforming their quota.

But the lawsuit may result in Harvard being 70% or more ASian American like TJ. If you want that, then fine ..........

I want kids judged by their character and skills, not their skin color.

Then it was overtime deflate the value of the degree. Harvard will be highly motivated to adopt another system that allows it to continue its mission to accept a class composed of kids Harvard believes will be representative leaders across the spectrum. It has no interest in only having the highest GPA and test score and having on small minority dominate the school. It also does not want to be like TJ that has a huge underbelly of poorly performing/unhappy kids that end up at mediocre colleges. Harvard does not want 50% of its graduates excluded from top jobs and professional schools. The above described would seriously change the H undergraduate experience and decrease the benefits of attending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many in the middle and upper middle class just can’t afford Ivy’s and other expensive private schools. This makes “school pedigree” very much based on parent income, not merit. I’m not saying that those who attend aren’t qualified. It’s just that many who are qualified can’t attend. Rich people think it’s possible to make it work and colleges tell you that you should apply regardless. But too rich for FA and too poor to attend is reality for many. Is it “pay to play?” Is it skewed so the middle class miss out? Is it unfair? Expensive schools are a luxury and it’s not all merit based.

You probably have a nice life filled with leasure. You have time to post. Why not use your intelligence to earn enough to pay for your kids education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurriculars/activities/sports don't matter one bit. Grades and test scores are the only thing most schools really look at.

You've gotta be kidding. The first cut is race and gender. Even very high grades and test scores won't get applicants belonging to certain groups into a selective school.

Yes but hopefully the lawsuit against Harvard will end their despicable bias against Asians.

Don't make it about the asians....it's about the process and inherent bias. 30 years ago it was the jews, today it is the asians, tomorrow it could be any minority group that is outperforming their quota.

But the lawsuit may result in Harvard being 70% or more ASian American like TJ. If you want that, then fine ..........

I see we’ve found the racist imbecile on the thread

And fewer jews who are over represented and no longer (the bright immagrant wave has passed) high scoring. Jews are no longer dominating things like NY Regents test, SAT and ACT. Out of all caucasians at the Ivys (a majority) jews is the group that will lose the most. The very rich WASP will no be substantially change and there will be fewer AA and Hisp.


The Asian Americans as have significantly higher scores per capita than the other applicants. Same with the Jews who were cut out of harvard and the law school in the late 50s and early 60s. That was done away with so by the time I made it to Harvard my law school class was predominantly Jewish. The lawsuit is about AAs who have higher GPAs and stats than other applicants but are routinely cut out. The class action has demonstrated that the AAs applicants are marked down in character by the readers ("boring") whether intentional or not, conscious or not, and that their scores and GPA are higher per capita than others who were admitted. If Harvard wins at the trial level, which it will because it's an Obama appointee hearing it, then it will be appealed to the first circuit where it will be affirmed because ithe first circuit is the same, and then to SCOTUS where it will be reversed. The result will be far more Asian Americans in each class, just as at TJ right now, than before. And fewer URMs, WASPs, first generation, international, low-income, questbridge, etc. There are only a finite no. of seats. Read up on the case please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurriculars/activities/sports don't matter one bit. Grades and test scores are the only thing most schools really look at.

You've gotta be kidding. The first cut is race and gender. Even very high grades and test scores won't get applicants belonging to certain groups into a selective school.

Yes but hopefully the lawsuit against Harvard will end their despicable bias against Asians.

Don't make it about the asians....it's about the process and inherent bias. 30 years ago it was the jews, today it is the asians, tomorrow it could be any minority group that is outperforming their quota.

But the lawsuit may result in Harvard being 70% or more ASian American like TJ. If you want that, then fine ..........

I see we’ve found the racist imbecile on the thread

The racist imbecile thinks Asians are smart, hardworking, and outperform whites?

[Anonymous]

Only a handful of LACs are worth the full price, and students who can get into them can get into T10/T20 universites, which are a much better investment in the long-term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UDC is better than most think and can be a good (and cheap) choice.

The problem with UDC is not the education or the students. It's the utter incompetence of personnel who are so disorganized that they force students to flee elsewhere ... anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many in the middle and upper middle class just can’t afford Ivy’s and other expensive private schools. This makes “school pedigree” very much based on parent income, not merit. I’m not saying that those who attend aren’t qualified. It’s just that many who are qualified can’t attend. Rich people think it’s possible to make it work and colleges tell you that you should apply regardless. But too rich for FA and too poor to attend is reality for many. Is it “pay to play?” Is it skewed so the middle class miss out? Is it unfair? Expensive schools are a luxury and it’s not all merit based.

You probably have a nice life filled with leasure. You have time to post. Why not use your intelligence to earn enough to pay for your kids education.

Wow- what a nasty, privileged, ignorant post. You know nothing about me. I have worked full time practically everyday for the last 34 years. I don't have much "leasure" as you put it. I have and do earn a pretty good salary and I work damn hard for it. Unfortunately, having approx $840,000 to put 3 kids through private colleges is not in my budget.
You are pathetically out of touch if you think it's just a matter of "use your intelligence to earn enough..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Barring any learning disabilities, SAT test prep classes are basically useless. All they do is force you to take tests, which you can do on your own by buying a prep book and reading the answers or watching Khan Academy videos (where explanations are usually better and more concise). For the people saying, “well, MY kid won’t do test prep unless I push him/her, and rework their essays, and make an account to submit his applications on time because he can’t be bothered,” yeah, college just ain’t for that kid. Maybe down the line if he wants it.

Depending on the SAT prep test. Some companies are thriving on charging $125-500 an hour on SAT prep, promising a substantial increase in score after 6 months of tutoring. I am not ure how it's happening, but they are delivering their promise.

[Anonymous]

Drinking is a huge college problem. We’ve set it up so we expect kids to get drunk all the time while away at school, even though it’s illegal I’m most afraid of my child dying from alcohol related stupidity while at college.