Faith and the Reward of Heaven

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "Qur'an" specifies the principle of Qisas (i.e. retaliation) and compensation (diyah) in cases where one Muslim kills another Muslim.[4]

It is not for a believer [Muslim] to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the diya to the family of the slain unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the diya must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.

Quran 4:92

What does Koran say about killing non-Muslims? And how do you get in heaven after killing non-Muslims?

Killing non-Muslims is encouraged. They should covert or die because it's an offense to Allah to not believe in him. You get rewarded to Heaven for killing non-believers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "Qur'an" specifies the principle of Qisas (i.e. retaliation) and compensation (diyah) in cases where one Muslim kills another Muslim.[4]

It is not for a believer [Muslim] to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the diya to the family of the slain unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the diya must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.

Quran 4:92

What does Koran say about killing non-Muslims? And how do you get in heaven after killing non-Muslims?

I don’t know a lot about it but it seems the penalty for non- believers, women and kids are less of not at all.

Weird that pp insisted for 5 pages that Christianity’s salvation through sincere repentance is the religion with the “outrageous free pass, ridiculous, wtf!” But she can’t be bothered to come back and explain this.

My gosh, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "Qur'an" specifies the principle of Qisas (i.e. retaliation) and compensation (diyah) in cases where one Muslim kills another Muslim.[4]

It is not for a believer [Muslim] to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the diya to the family of the slain unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the diya must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.

Quran 4:92

What does Koran say about killing non-Muslims? And how do you get in heaven after killing non-Muslims?

I don’t know a lot about it but it seems the penalty for non- believers, women and kids are less of not at all.

Weird that pp insisted for 5 pages that Christianity’s salvation through sincere repentance is the religion with the “outrageous free pass, ridiculous, wtf!” But she can’t be bothered to come back and explain this.

My gosh, I was thinking exactly the same thing.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

I think it is beautiful that God gives the opportunity of redemption to even a hardened sinner.

Think of Jesus on the cross. The sinner at His side who repented and believed was told by Christ that today he woukd be with Jesus in paradise.

That hopefulness that even the most worthless soul can be redeemed by good and through God's love and mercy is a wonderful and beautiful thing and far better than a god who is al about vengeance, punishment and an eye for an eye.

I don't find it beautiful. I think it tends to attract a corrupt person who isn't really conscientious of their actions, and doesn't care about others, because they'll be "saved." I think it appeals to certain people who are more selfishly minded, and I understand the appeal. But I don't understand it from perspective of respect for your fellow humanity.

The goal of God is salvation of humanity. All people. All races. God doesn’t discriminate. If that’s selfish then what is fairness?

Fairness, as I was taught, is the sum of the actions in your lifetime. Not a button you can reset all the time by repenting. Generally I still believe this, but without a belief in an afterlife. We can be better, we can know better with regards to our fellow humans, we can do better... but it doesn't negate our past behaviors.

But as mentioned, I no longer believe in religion. A God creating a game for his entertainment (with a goal of salvation, or what not) is absurd to me.

So if you kill another person but then do lots of good deeds you tip the scales back to your favor?

As I was taught, that's up for God to decide, and you won't know which way the scales tip until you die. But your sins are never cleared.

As an adult who doesn't believe in any religion or God, I think similarly - your slate is never wiped clean. The best you can do is learn from your mistakes and go forward to try and serve your humanity better. And when you die, you die. The end.

How many murderers and rapists actually commit such crimes and then decide to go forward and be a good person? They kill or rape and then commit to serving humanity?

No idea.

But I've always been disturbed by the idea that someone can kill and murder, accept Jesus and be "saved" and then they can go to heaven. People can talk all they want about their "heart" being different, but ultimately the proof is in the actions and the kind of person you are to your fellow humans going forward. I have always found the "saved" aspect disturbing and weird. I know it works for some people, but I'm being completely honest - I find it a pretty abhorrent perspective that many people abuse so they can avoid responsibility and reflection on their past.

God forgives you, but if you keep killing or stealing or raping he understands you aren’t repentant. There’s no change in you if you ask for forgiveness and commit to God’s word but continue to murder people.

God is no fool.

I know that'a an essential belief in Christianity, but from my perspective, "God forgives you" is preemptive. You don't know until you die. And relying on "God forgives you" in this life, can cause people to become complacent on truly doing better than their past, or really reflecting on the ramifications of their past actions.

Again, I don't believe in God, period. What we grow up in, colors our perspective. I have always found the "God forgives you" thing to be really, really weird. What matters most in the present is our fellow humans. That is the only value we can know and work towards bettering.

This is not true. Once you fund the God, you know it many years before your death. I did something horrific early in my life and then came to God. I never knew God before as I was raised in atheists family and in very liberal environment. What i did was a norm for a lot of people I grew up with, but it is one of the 10 sins in God's eyes. Once i found the God and started to leave my new life, I knew I was saved. I have so many blessings that I can't even count all of them. God lets me know every single day that I am forgiven.

[Anonymous]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/05/16/africa/sudan-noura-hussein-clemency/

The United Nations office of human rights appealed to Sudanese officials for clemency for a 19-year-old who was sentenced to death for killing the man she was forced to marry.
Noura Hussein was imprisoned in Omdurman, Sudan, in 2017 after fatally stabbing her husband, who she says raped her as his relatives held her down.
A judge sentenced her to death last week after her husband's family refused an option to pardon her and rejected financial compensation, requesting that she be executed instead.

Here’s a current story about the use of financial compensation in Sudan. A young girl was married at 10, ran away, and then was tricked by her own father into going back to her husband. She was held down and raped by her husband. She stabbed him to death.

Apparently his family rejected financial compensation and wants her to be executed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/05/16/africa/sudan-noura-hussein-clemency/

The United Nations office of human rights appealed to Sudanese officials for clemency for a 19-year-old who was sentenced to death for killing the man she was forced to marry.
Noura Hussein was imprisoned in Omdurman, Sudan, in 2017 after fatally stabbing her husband, who she says raped her as his relatives held her down.
A judge sentenced her to death last week after her husband's family refused an option to pardon her and rejected financial compensation, requesting that she be executed instead.

Here’s a current story about the use of financial compensation in Sudan. A young girl was married at 10, ran away, and then was tricked by her own father into going back to her husband. She was held down and raped by her husband. She stabbed him to death.

Apparently his family rejected financial compensation and wants her to be executed.

This post will be deleted by tomorrow as an contrary to the admin's believes.

[Anonymous]

So a poster who was unwilling to even be truthful about her former religion decided to act as if Christianity was so unbelievable to her, and completely disappeared when asked questions.

At least the Christians here will answer questions and post links to explain beliefs.

People may not like or agree with the answers, but it’s better than not being open or honest like the former Muslim-atheist who hit and quit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...

Just to clarify, it was the Christians the other post that I was specifically thinking of. They seem to be the most focused on an afterlife and post-life rewards and consequences.

Of course, I include all other people in faiths that are equally focused on the afterlife that I am equally skeptical of.

I just wonder what these people would be like if they weren't promised an afterlife?

Some people might think that’s the point! If there was no hope, no promise of an afterlife, what human would live for a purpose greater than they could achieve on earth?

Well, that again sounds selfish. You're saying that unless there is a promise of an afterlife, what human would want to do things that God ultimately rewards - with Heaven.

My parents believe in God but not in Heaven, and I was taught that one does good things and treats people right (the Golden Rule) because that is what God wants you to do. Period. The goal is to, even a small extent, "leave the world a better place than you found it." That could mean anything from raising responsible children, to saving unwanted animals, to supporting worthy causes. There is no "reward" for doing so, other than knowing you've lived your life in such a way that God would want. That alone is incentive - and reward - enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

I have a hard time believing that. Unless there is some other person who asked their devout Christian friend whether it is possible for Hitler to go to Heaven and that devout friend said yes, as long as he accepted Jesus. How often do you think that conversation happens? Is Hitler's afterlife really that important to so many people?

[Anonymous]

Basing your life, in any manner, off of Hitler, is insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

I have a hard time believing that. Unless there is some other person who asked their devout Christian friend whether it is possible for Hitler to go to Heaven and that devout friend said yes, as long as he accepted Jesus. How often do you think that conversation happens? Is Hitler's afterlife really that important to so many people?

First, I think I would remember if I asked that question. I gather you are calling me a liar.

Second, I've heard that question raised many times, by many people. It's actually the most obvious example. When Christians claim that ANYONE, no matter how reprehensible his behavior, will go to Heaven if he accepts Jesus, the MOST OBVIOUS example is Hitler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

+1. It’s been explained to this poster multiple times in this thread that you have to *sincerely repent*. No church teaches the hypocrisy that you can declare yourself a Christian and be forgiven for even heinous crimes. No church, anywhere or of any denomination. Repentance must be sincere.

It’s also been explained multiple times to this poster that there may be hypocritical individuals in Christianity, just like there are in Islam. But just as it’s wrong to judge Islam by the actions of ISIS members, so is it wrong to judge Christians by the actions of a mean coworker who has convinced herself she’s headed to heaven because she goes to church

Fun fact: Amazing Grace is a great hymn about salvation. It’s author, John Newton, had been an atheist slave trader but repented and converted, became a clergyman, and obviously tried to live the rest of his life as a good Christian.