Faith and the Reward of Heaven

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

Then just read this thread for the same discussion. It’s not too much to ask of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...

Just to clarify, it was the Christians the other post that I was specifically thinking of. They seem to be the most focused on an afterlife and post-life rewards and consequences.

Of course, I include all other people in faiths that are equally focused on the afterlife that I am equally skeptical of.

I just wonder what these people would be like if they weren't promised an afterlife?

Some people might think that’s the point! If there was no hope, no promise of an afterlife, what human would live for a purpose greater than they could achieve on earth?

Well, that again sounds selfish. You're saying that unless there is a promise of an afterlife, what human would want to do things that God ultimately rewards - with Heaven.

My parents believe in God but not in Heaven, and I was taught that one does good things and treats people right (the Golden Rule) because that is what God wants you to do. Period. The goal is to, even a small extent, "leave the world a better place than you found it." That could mean anything from raising responsible children, to saving unwanted animals, to supporting worthy causes. There is no "reward" for doing so, other than knowing you've lived your life in such a way that God would want. That alone is incentive - and reward - enough.

Just curious: do your parents believe humans have souls? If they do, do what do they believe happens to a human soul after death? Not at all being argumentative or judgmental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

I have a hard time believing that. Unless there is some other person who asked their devout Christian friend whether it is possible for Hitler to go to Heaven and that devout friend said yes, as long as he accepted Jesus. How often do you think that conversation happens? Is Hitler's afterlife really that important to so many people?

First, I think I would remember if I asked that question. I gather you are calling me a liar.

Second, I've heard that question raised many times, by many people. It's actually the most obvious example. When Christians claim that ANYONE, no matter how reprehensible his behavior, will go to Heaven if he accepts Jesus, the MOST OBVIOUS example is Hitler.

And the answer is: NO- there is no way Hitler could have gone to heaven. NONE. He was a horror until the very last moment of his life. That is why it is a horribly obvious and dumb example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here...

Just to clarify, it was the Christians the other post that I was specifically thinking of. They seem to be the most focused on an afterlife and post-life rewards and consequences.

Of course, I include all other people in faiths that are equally focused on the afterlife that I am equally skeptical of.

I just wonder what these people would be like if they weren't promised an afterlife?

Some people might think that’s the point! If there was no hope, no promise of an afterlife, what human would live for a purpose greater than they could achieve on earth?

Well, that again sounds selfish. You're saying that unless there is a promise of an afterlife, what human would want to do things that God ultimately rewards - with Heaven.

My parents believe in God but not in Heaven, and I was taught that one does good things and treats people right (the Golden Rule) because that is what God wants you to do. Period. The goal is to, even a small extent, "leave the world a better place than you found it." That could mean anything from raising responsible children, to saving unwanted animals, to supporting worthy causes. There is no "reward" for doing so, other than knowing you've lived your life in such a way that God would want. That alone is incentive - and reward - enough.

Just curious: do your parents believe humans have souls? If they do, do what do they believe happens to a human soul after death? Not at all being argumentative or judgmental.

No, they do not believe humans have souls. After death, the person cases to exist. Their "work" here on Earth is completed, but lives on through their good actions during their time - the animals they saved, the children they raised, the efforts of the charitable groups to which they contribute. I myself plan to set up a charitable remainder trust that will pay me income during my old age, and revert to the charity when I am gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

I have a hard time believing that. Unless there is some other person who asked their devout Christian friend whether it is possible for Hitler to go to Heaven and that devout friend said yes, as long as he accepted Jesus. How often do you think that conversation happens? Is Hitler's afterlife really that important to so many people?

First, I think I would remember if I asked that question. I gather you are calling me a liar.

Second, I've heard that question raised many times, by many people. It's actually the most obvious example. When Christians claim that ANYONE, no matter how reprehensible his behavior, will go to Heaven if he accepts Jesus, the MOST OBVIOUS example is Hitler.

And the answer is: NO- there is no way Hitler could have gone to heaven. NONE. He was a horror until the very last moment of his life. That is why it is a horribly obvious and dumb example.

Well I certainly prefer your answer. The idea that Hitler could be in Heaven, which is what the Christian woman told me, turns my stomach.

[Anonymous]

Ok. Thank you for answering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

I have a hard time believing that. Unless there is some other person who asked their devout Christian friend whether it is possible for Hitler to go to Heaven and that devout friend said yes, as long as he accepted Jesus. How often do you think that conversation happens? Is Hitler's afterlife really that important to so many people?

First, I think I would remember if I asked that question. I gather you are calling me a liar.

Second, I've heard that question raised many times, by many people. It's actually the most obvious example. When Christians claim that ANYONE, no matter how reprehensible his behavior, will go to Heaven if he accepts Jesus, the MOST OBVIOUS example is Hitler.

And the answer is: NO- there is no way Hitler could have gone to heaven. NONE. He was a horror until the very last moment of his life. That is why it is a horribly obvious and dumb example.

Well I certainly prefer your answer. The idea that Hitler could be in Heaven, which is what the Christian woman told me, turns my stomach.

Maybe instead of asking random and possibly ignorant people for answers, you should look at Christian theology yourself and make these determinations, if you are actually interested in this topic. People can tell you whatever they want and it is not necessarily correct, and your entire viewpoint should not be based on someone else's interpretation of scripture that you happened to dislike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok. Thank you for answering.

You're welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

I have a hard time believing that. Unless there is some other person who asked their devout Christian friend whether it is possible for Hitler to go to Heaven and that devout friend said yes, as long as he accepted Jesus. How often do you think that conversation happens? Is Hitler's afterlife really that important to so many people?

First, I think I would remember if I asked that question. I gather you are calling me a liar.

Second, I've heard that question raised many times, by many people. It's actually the most obvious example. When Christians claim that ANYONE, no matter how reprehensible his behavior, will go to Heaven if he accepts Jesus, the MOST OBVIOUS example is Hitler.

And the answer is: NO- there is no way Hitler could have gone to heaven. NONE. He was a horror until the very last moment of his life. That is why it is a horribly obvious and dumb example.

Well I certainly prefer your answer. The idea that Hitler could be in Heaven, which is what the Christian woman told me, turns my stomach.

As a Christian, I’d say basing your knowledge of the entire religion off of one Christian’s opinion about Hitler probably isn’t the best way to form your feelings of Christianity.

I don’t know, but most Christians would not expect to see Hitler in heaven.

[Anonymous]

The story behind Amazing Grace is just, well, amazing.

[Anonymous]

Bart: Um, Ma'm. What if you're a really good person but you're in a really really bad fight and your leg gets gangrene and it has to be amputated. Will it be waiting for you in heaven?
Teacher: For the last time Bart, yes!


Let’s be better than Bart and his teacher, people.

If you truly want to know more there’s too many educated people to query, and an entire holy text that you can read yourself and form an opinion about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

I have a hard time believing that. Unless there is some other person who asked their devout Christian friend whether it is possible for Hitler to go to Heaven and that devout friend said yes, as long as he accepted Jesus. How often do you think that conversation happens? Is Hitler's afterlife really that important to so many people?

First, I think I would remember if I asked that question. I gather you are calling me a liar.

Second, I've heard that question raised many times, by many people. It's actually the most obvious example. When Christians claim that ANYONE, no matter how reprehensible his behavior, will go to Heaven if he accepts Jesus, the MOST OBVIOUS example is Hitler.

And the answer is: NO- there is no way Hitler could have gone to heaven. NONE. He was a horror until the very last moment of his life. That is why it is a horribly obvious and dumb example.

+1,000

[Anonymous]

I believe there's a common misconception out there that Christians think they're good people and that Heaven is a reward for being so dang good. This is not how we approach it. Every Christian I know -- I'm one myself -- came to Christ because we realized what horrible sinners we were, and we needed to be forgiven. Heaven is something that God in his infinite love and mercy provides for those who have faith in Him. He wants us to be where He is, and that's by necessity a great place. And all He wants is for us to recognize our sin and put faith in His Son. If we truly do this, He helps us live better lives than we could on our own, but in no way should this be construed to mean that we're better than people who don't believe. The premise of this thread doesn't resonate with me, and I'm sure it wouldn't resonate with my Christian friends and acquaintances. We simply don't regard Heaven as some sort of "reward." We just look forward to the time when we will shed these sinful bodies and be united with LORD, in whom we have believed. Until you come to the LORD, I believe it is very difficult to understand this as a motivation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

I have a hard time believing that. Unless there is some other person who asked their devout Christian friend whether it is possible for Hitler to go to Heaven and that devout friend said yes, as long as he accepted Jesus. How often do you think that conversation happens? Is Hitler's afterlife really that important to so many people?

First, I think I would remember if I asked that question. I gather you are calling me a liar.

Second, I've heard that question raised many times, by many people. It's actually the most obvious example. When Christians claim that ANYONE, no matter how reprehensible his behavior, will go to Heaven if he accepts Jesus, the MOST OBVIOUS example is Hitler.

And the answer is: NO- there is no way Hitler could have gone to heaven. NONE. He was a horror until the very last moment of his life. That is why it is a horribly obvious and dumb example.

+1,000

An actual example of this is Ted Bundy. He claimed he accepted Jesus while in prison before he was executed. James Dobson interviews him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is the attitude of most religions with belief in an afterlife.

What seems disturbing to me about the most prevalent belief in Christianity, is that you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and all your prior sins are cleared. You could have murdered children and raped women, and stolen from the destitute, abused the helpless... and you're clear because you repent? That is not a God I could ever, ever believe in.

I was raised Muslim, and was taught that it's more about tipping the scales. Whether or not you get to heaven is about the actions overall. You don't repent, and then the slate is wiped clean - the scale is always calculating. You have to be conscientious, always. Everything matters every minute of every day, and all your deeds will be weighed when you die.

That said, I no longer believe in religion or any Gods, but the latter seemed like a much more palatable, just and fair pill to swallow.

Yes, that's what bothers me too with the Christian idea of going to Heaven, regardless of actions, as long as you believe in Jesus. I once asked a devout Christian if that meant Hitler could be in Heaven, and she told me "yes" - as long as he believed Jesus died for his sins. That idea is reprehensible to me.

OMG you have posted this before and it led to this incredibly long tangent where people tried to explain to you that given that Hitler committed suicide, there is absolutely no likelihood that he "repented" or found Jesus at the last moment of his life. His last moments were filled with fear and self-pity. Your Christian friend gave you incorrect information.

I didn't post that before. It was someone else, and I never saw the long thread to which you refer.

I have a hard time believing that. Unless there is some other person who asked their devout Christian friend whether it is possible for Hitler to go to Heaven and that devout friend said yes, as long as he accepted Jesus. How often do you think that conversation happens? Is Hitler's afterlife really that important to so many people?

First, I think I would remember if I asked that question. I gather you are calling me a liar.

Second, I've heard that question raised many times, by many people. It's actually the most obvious example. When Christians claim that ANYONE, no matter how reprehensible his behavior, will go to Heaven if he accepts Jesus, the MOST OBVIOUS example is Hitler.

And the answer is: NO- there is no way Hitler could have gone to heaven. NONE. He was a horror until the very last moment of his life. That is why it is a horribly obvious and dumb example.

+1,000

An actual example of this is Ted Bundy. He claimed he accepted Jesus while in prison before he was executed. James Dobson interviews him.

Bundy would be another example of the difference between you saying you believe vs God looking at what’s really in your heart. In Bundy’s case I have a hard time finding the death row conversion credible.