High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I have mixed feelings about the test prep centers. My personal opinion is that they do not necessarily give children an unfair advantage. What gives many of these children an advantage is that they are more likely to be hard working, come from families that prize education etc. I would not be surprised if many of these kids would have succeeded without the prep center. I am not convinced that the majority of magnet kids have gone to a prep center- I personally don't know many who did. I will also restate what I said earlier - you need a combination of raw ability and years of practice and hard work to get in and to succeed in the HS and to some extent the MS magnets. Kids who have a lot of raw ability but don't have the competency that comes with years of practice will have a tough time AND kids who work really hard or perhaps prep a lot but don't have a lot of raw ability will also have a hard time. I actually think the current HS magnet selection process does a decent job of identifying kids who have both qualities in abundance- raw ability as well as the proficiency that comes with years of hard work and practice.

This is true, if by "hard working" you mean "willing to do what they're told to do", and by "families that prize education" you mean "parents that are willing and able to spend money on test prep classes".

[Anonymous]

Frankly speaking, between the two best known tutoring centers,, only 20-30 students were accepted. Most of the students could get in without attending the prep class. They went there because their friends were there, because they have to attend summer camp due to working parents, or because they like to be drilled.
The prep materials are SAT or SSAT style prep. As some posters indicated earlier, parents can buy a book and prepare tgeir kids at home. Unfortunately, for immigrant families, tutoring your own kids is not easy because of different education systems and language barrier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Frankly speaking, between the two best known tutoring centers,, only 20-30 students were accepted. Most of the students could get in without attending the prep class. They went there because their friends were there, because they have to attend summer camp due to working parents, or because they like to be drilled.
The prep materials are SAT or SSAT style prep. As some posters indicated earlier, parents can buy a book and prepare tgeir kids at home. Unfortunately, for immigrant families, tutoring your own kids is not easy because of different education systems and language barrier.

This sounds about right - also remember that some of these kids were accepted to both programs so you might have perhaps 15 kids at the most in each of the magnet programs that went through a test prep program and I am not convinced that this was the deciding factor in their success. My kid did not do any prep but I never worried that he would be at a disadvantage because of this. The application process is pretty rigorous - a tough test, a very detailed application with multiple essays, teacher recs and grades. I believe the magnet programs are aware of the prevalence of test prep centers and I think they are sensitive to this when they review applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have mixed feelings about the test prep centers. My personal opinion is that they do not necessarily give children an unfair advantage. What gives many of these children an advantage is that they are more likely to be hard working, come from families that prize education etc. I would not be surprised if many of these kids would have succeeded without the prep center. I am not convinced that the majority of magnet kids have gone to a prep center- I personally don't know many who did. I will also restate what I said earlier - you need a combination of raw ability and years of practice and hard work to get in and to succeed in the HS and to some extent the MS magnets. Kids who have a lot of raw ability but don't have the competency that comes with years of practice will have a tough time AND kids who work really hard or perhaps prep a lot but don't have a lot of raw ability will also have a hard time. I actually think the current HS magnet selection process does a decent job of identifying kids who have both qualities in abundance- raw ability as well as the proficiency that comes with years of hard work and practice.

This is true, if by "hard working" you mean "willing to do what they're told to do", and by "families that prize education" you mean "parents that are willing and able to spend money on test prep classes".

No that is not what I mean.
I really don't think more than 15% of magnet students have attended prep courses and that might not even have been the deciding factor in getting them admission although I am sure there are a handful for whom it made the difference.
However, there is no doubt that the families I meet in the magnet program care about their child's education very strongly. These are families who have been reading to their children since they were babies, taken them to museums in strollers. and generally pursued as many enrichment activities as possible. These are also by and large families with highly educated parents and so I think they do have a good idea about what it takes to be successful especially in Math and Science - you need a lot of practice over many, many years. I never sent my kid to a test prep center but I did work with Singapore Math materials every summer through 6th grade because I felt the MCPS math curriculum did not stress the essentials enough. My child was not always keen on spending 45 minutes a day 3 or 4 times a week on Math during the summer vacation and it did take some convincing but I think it was important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they also dropping the essay for Eastern?

Yes.

FYI: One of the criteria for evaluation that was mentioned a few times is current reading level.

Reading level?

A relative of ours went to Eastern magnet five years ago; the girl said the sheer volume of writing that needed to be done pretty much from day one was incredible. Without testing an applicant's ability to actually write, how will MCPS make sure the kids are up to task? By having them answer 10 multiple choice analogy questions?

I'm speechless.

That's good - perhaps you'll discontinue posting. Obviously you traffic in hyperbole and panic, since A) you didn't have a child at Eastern and are only posting based on anecdotal info and B) don't realize that children who can think at this level can actually be taught how to write above grade level relatively quickly even in 6th grade - shocker!

Children who can 'think at this level' shouldn't be given an unfair advantage while there are children who already can think and write and have already demonstrated their academic advantage. And why don't you discontinue posting yourself since you've been trying to advance your agenda on multiple threads now, and your agenda is clearly a political one.

NP: Your post makes it sound like the magnet program is an award. It isn't.

What political agenda would that be? Do tell.

[Anonymous]

Why are they giving the test on Saturday if they want more kids to be able to participate? This creates inequities of access like Transportation (only public bus, no school bus on Saturday) and Work Schedules for Saturday workers who will not be able to take off to get their kid to the test. Shouldn't they give the test in school during school hours like they do for 3rd graders?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are they giving the test on Saturday if they want more kids to be able to participate? This creates inequities of access like Transportation (only public bus, no school bus on Saturday) and Work Schedules for Saturday workers who will not be able to take off to get their kid to the test. Shouldn't they give the test in school during school hours like they do for 3rd graders?

Have you heard something called 'carpool'? Or you can request mcps to provide school bus for? you neighbothood. There is still time to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are they giving the test on Saturday if they want more kids to be able to participate? This creates inequities of access like Transportation (only public bus, no school bus on Saturday) and Work Schedules for Saturday workers who will not be able to take off to get their kid to the test. Shouldn't they give the test in school during school hours like they do for 3rd graders?

Have you heard something called 'carpool'? Or you can request mcps to provide school bus for? you neighbothood. There is still time to do so.

PP is correct -- giving the test on a Saturday is a barrier to entry. Can it be overcome, with effort? Yes, probably. But it's a barrier nonetheless.

[Anonymous]

Seems like a waste of a lot of effort to do a pilot program aimed at eliminating barriers and then schedule the test on Saturday and reintroduce barriers. Testing during school seems like the right answer

[Anonymous]

who cares. this is public school of a huge, diverse county. 160k+ students, 200+ schools, 500+ sq miles, 3 frickin' weather alert zones.

do you seriously thing ANYONE's needs are being met?

the county should be split 3 ways, totally different needs in several cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like a waste of a lot of effort to do a pilot program aimed at eliminating barriers and then schedule the test on Saturday and reintroduce barriers. Testing during school seems like the right answer

Yeah, send a taxpayer funded limo to escort all the kiddos to and from their test. Will that make you sleep at night?

Have you ever studied the long-term results of programs like Chapter 220 and the like? Same teen pregnancy rates, same graduation rates, same college acceptance rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are they giving the test on Saturday if they want more kids to be able to participate? This creates inequities of access like Transportation (only public bus, no school bus on Saturday) and Work Schedules for Saturday workers who will not be able to take off to get their kid to the test. Shouldn't they give the test in school during school hours like they do for 3rd graders?

Have you heard something called 'carpool'? Or you can request mcps to provide school bus for? you neighbothood. There is still time to do so.

PP is correct -- giving the test on a Saturday is a barrier to entry. Can it be overcome, with effort? Yes, probably. But it's a barrier nonetheless.

if a kid or parent can't figure that one out not sure how they'll figure out the rest of life. or a gifted program. or an intense HS. or college. or a serious job search.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are they giving the test on Saturday if they want more kids to be able to participate? This creates inequities of access like Transportation (only public bus, no school bus on Saturday) and Work Schedules for Saturday workers who will not be able to take off to get their kid to the test. Shouldn't they give the test in school during school hours like they do for 3rd graders?

Have you heard something called 'carpool'? Or you can request mcps to provide school bus for? you neighbothood. There is still time to do so.

PP is correct -- giving the test on a Saturday is a barrier to entry. Can it be overcome, with effort? Yes, probably. But it's a barrier nonetheless.

if a kid or parent can't figure that one out not sure how they'll figure out the rest of life. or a gifted program. or an intense HS. or college. or a serious job search.

It says if your student is sick not to send them to testing, I'm betting there are make ups and if a child can't make it to the test on January 6 for whatever reason there is probably an alternative plan. (I hope)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they also dropping the essay for Eastern?

Yes.

FYI: One of the criteria for evaluation that was mentioned a few times is current reading level.

Reading level?

A relative of ours went to Eastern magnet five years ago; the girl said the sheer volume of writing that needed to be done pretty much from day one was incredible. Without testing an applicant's ability to actually write, how will MCPS make sure the kids are up to task? By having them answer 10 multiple choice analogy questions?

I'm speechless.

I don't think that the essays were a good measure of an applicant's ability to actually write. The application essays were a good measure of an applicant's access to somebody who could help them with their essays, and the test essay was a good measure of an applicant's ability to come up with something in a short period of time in response to a writing prompt.

But did they explicitly say that an essay/writing section wouldn't be on the test? I only heard them say that there wouldn't be an essay on the application itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are they giving the test on Saturday if they want more kids to be able to participate? This creates inequities of access like Transportation (only public bus, no school bus on Saturday) and Work Schedules for Saturday workers who will not be able to take off to get their kid to the test. Shouldn't they give the test in school during school hours like they do for 3rd graders?

Have you heard something called 'carpool'? Or you can request mcps to provide school bus for? you neighbothood. There is still time to do so.

PP is correct -- giving the test on a Saturday is a barrier to entry. Can it be overcome, with effort? Yes, probably. But it's a barrier nonetheless.

if a kid or parent can't figure that one out not sure how they'll figure out the rest of life. or a gifted program. or an intense HS. or college. or a serious job search.

Yes, people with issues could "figure it out" but that doesn't change the illogic of completely changing the admission procedures in an attempt to remove barriers to access to then turn around and put up a barrier that could easily be avoided by doing the tests in school. AEI/Choice Programs - are you listening??