High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thanks to all- I had found the link but have watched only halfway through. So thank you for putting main points here. Interesting there's no math part in the assessment which was actually the real selection criteria fir the G&T kids.

So are we sure there is no math in the testing? I heard that applicants to both programs will be tested in the same way but I never heard it explicitly stated that math isn't part of that test. They haven't given out sample problems, but again that doesn't preclude anything. Either way Map scores and quarter one grades are considered, so not as if math ability is removed from consideration it's already part of the student's record.

The real purpose of the pilot is supposed to be to cast a wider net and remove barriers to consideration. If part of that means making sure students who have trained extensively outside of school aren't given extra weight, so be it. This doesn't mean those students don't already have an advantage in their classroom grades and Map scores, just that in school achievement will be the first consideration.

The second part of the pilot program is expanding the offerings at the home school if there's already a large peer group. This sounds sensible, why bus students cross county if they can fill a magnet classroom in the home school?

I heard the MCPS reps talking to parents after the Q&A, and they said the test would be verbal/non-verbal. Someone asked about math and the MCPS rep said no direct math testing. Same test for post magnets. Essay for Eastern is eliminated. There will be 1 open-ended question that will not be scored, but should address your child's interest in the programs.

Thanks, I was wondering where this came from. The open ended question was mentioned in the video.

[Anonymous]

They kept saying "only 1st Quarter of 5th Grade" will be considered for selection. Did they also specifically say PARCC? I realize we received the scores in 1st Quarter, 5th Grade, but the test was from 4th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are they also dropping the essay for Eastern?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they also dropping the essay for Eastern?

Yes.

Is this a joke? No math test to qualify for a math and science magnet and no essay to qualify for a humanities magnet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they also dropping the essay for Eastern?

Yes.

Is this a joke? No math test to qualify for a math and science magnet and no essay to qualify for a humanities magnet?

Sadly no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They kept saying "only 1st Quarter of 5th Grade" will be considered for selection. Did they also specifically say PARCC? I realize we received the scores in 1st Quarter, 5th Grade, but the test was from 4th.

I asked the MCPS rep about PARCC and she said it may be used as indicated in the BOE memo about the new process. She said parents will be told if PARCC scores from last year (4th grade) are used. Apparently, there is still discussion about using the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they also dropping the essay for Eastern?

Yes.

FYI: One of the criteria for evaluation that was mentioned a few times is current reading level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are they also dropping the essay for Eastern?

Yes.

FYI: One of the criteria for evaluation that was mentioned a few times is current reading level.

Reading level?

A relative of ours went to Eastern magnet five years ago; the girl said the sheer volume of writing that needed to be done pretty much from day one was incredible. Without testing an applicant's ability to actually write, how will MCPS make sure the kids are up to task? By having them answer 10 multiple choice analogy questions?

I'm speechless.

[Anonymous]

I believe mcps trys to discover some raw talents who cannot do well in math test and write a meaningful essay, whose parents can't or unable to care about their child's education, who may be disruptive in classroom so teachers wouldn't write a good recommendation letter, or whose giftness can only be uncovered by this SELECTIVE committee. Mcps doesn't trust their teachers, students' parents, but a small group of peole may or may not have ANY credential on gift education.

[Anonymous]

SAT took the essay off the new test realizing that the essay a kid writes in a 25 minute testing situation does not really tell you much about their ability to write. Not saying MCPS is doing it correctly here but..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I believe mcps trys to discover some raw talents who cannot do well in math test and write a meaningful essay, whose parents can't or unable to care about their child's education, who may be disruptive in classroom so teachers wouldn't write a good recommendation letter, or whose giftness can only be uncovered by this SELECTIVE committee. Mcps doesn't trust their teachers, students' parents, but a small group of peole may or may not have ANY credential on gift education.

Yep. All for the greater good of racial quotas that they are not allowed to do explicitly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SAT took the essay off the new test realizing that the essay a kid writes in a 25 minute testing situation does not really tell you much about their ability to write. Not saying MCPS is doing it correctly here but..

That is more of a grading issue. They were using a very formula to grade and give full marks to essays with made up facts and citations. Plus, SAT is not targeting at kids gifted in humanities.

[Anonymous]

does testing on a Saturday lessen barriers to entry? L would think they should test in school.

[Anonymous]

As long as everyone is given the same test and the test differentiates students, it will be fine.

The reason for a math test was surely to find students who'd spent extra time thinking about math or who notice subtle things that may not be hammered home in the curriculum and therefore would hit the ground running in a magnet. But because there was a test, a culture of cram schools developed and instead the test just finds students who've been taught extra years of math. There's a difference between someone who gets a test question right because they're seeing a problem for the first time and have insight and someone who gets it right because they've already done it five times. There's a difference between someone who has potential to learn and grow in a magnet with like minded students and someone who will do well in the magnet because they've already completed middle school math. But it's not a huge difference and it's hard to isolate that with any test.

If nothing else, the process has to change from time to time to reset the cram schools. No one can say if the test prep works, but it's guaranteed that through talking with students who've taken the tests year in year out, the test prep organizers know more about the test and the types of questions that trip students up, than anyone else outside the testing office and selection committees. And they're the reason we can't have a math test.

Essay, so there isn't a graded essay, but there's a writing sample the committee can refer to themselves, that doesn't sound like a huge change. The purpose of an essay is to communicate, it doesn't need a score of 1-5 to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As long as everyone is given the same test and the test differentiates students, it will be fine.

The reason for a math test was surely to find students who'd spent extra time thinking about math or who notice subtle things that may not be hammered home in the curriculum and therefore would hit the ground running in a magnet. But because there was a test, a culture of cram schools developed and instead the test just finds students who've been taught extra years of math. There's a difference between someone who gets a test question right because they're seeing a problem for the first time and have insight and someone who gets it right because they've already done it five times. There's a difference between someone who has potential to learn and grow in a magnet with like minded students and someone who will do well in the magnet because they've already completed middle school math. But it's not a huge difference and it's hard to isolate that with any test.

If nothing else, the process has to change from time to time to reset the cram schools. No one can say if the test prep works, but it's guaranteed that through talking with students who've taken the tests year in year out, the test prep organizers know more about the test and the types of questions that trip students up, than anyone else outside the testing office and selection committees. And they're the reason we can't have a math test.

Essay, so there isn't a graded essay, but there's a writing sample the committee can refer to themselves, that doesn't sound like a huge change. The purpose of an essay is to communicate, it doesn't need a score of 1-5 to do that.

Thank you. This may be the most reasonable post I've seen on this subject in my years on DCUM. I have to think that some of this panic is just folks who are afraid they are going to lose an advantage. If they can't BUY their way into the magnets with test prep, then what have they been working toward this whole time? If somehow the county is actually able to identify gifted kids rather than just well-prepared kids, then some folks are going to have to face the fact that their kid isn't gifted. Which....is fine. Some of the most successful people I know weren't the ones constantly being told they were smart as kids.