High points from MS magnet at Blair tonight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This. It's all about selecting who mcps wants to select. Lastly year I started the thread on how W school students were specifically kept out from Blair despite of good test scores and credentials. The little tricky part from yesterday- 3000 will be selected based on Map M and R and PARCC and committee will take in to consideration if home middle school can fit the bill to provide to these high achievers rather than Takoma park. Now there only they have sifted who they want in and then written test among those 3000 can further sift the 100. Would I want my child to go to TPMS if selected in that 100 as there will be peer group activities that could have some that are actually not the gifted but mcps selected based on race and not on academic credentials.

Last year on that thread, you provided no factual evidence to support your assertion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me understand this. So they will select kids for Takoma Math/Science program without using math in the assessment test??

Yes, I spoke to the MCPS reps after the event and they confirmed that the test was changed to evaluate how a child thinks (reasoning ability) and also because MCPS is aware that there is test prepping going on and that is why MCPS is not providing sample questions/practice exam to level the playing field.

That can't be good for the test prep industry in Montgomery County. Maybe the governor should issue an executive order about this, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another thing has been mentioned is whether the kid has chance to find academic peer group in your home middle school. Very trick part, highly implicating you must do much better in some W school to be invited to attend these selective programs. Actually, same thing has been happening in elementary gifted centers. Competition into Cold Spring GT program is totally different story from into Barnslay, Clear Spring, Dr. Chews, Pineoak. I do know a couple of kids have much higher score than admitted kids in non-Cold Spring GT program, but they even could not be put on waiting list in Cold Spring GT program.

This. It's all about selecting who mcps wants to select. Lastly year I started the thread on how W school students were specifically kept out from Blair despite of good test scores and credentials. The little tricky part from yesterday- 3000 will be selected based on Map M and R and PARCC and committee will take in to consideration if home middle school can fit the bill to provide to these high achievers rather than Takoma park. Now there only they have sifted who they want in and then written test among those 3000 can further sift the 100. Would I want my child to go to TPMS if selected in that 100 as there will be peer group activities that could have some that are actually not the gifted but mcps selected based on race and not on academic credentials.

At the tpms open house for accepted students 2 years ago, the director mentioned that Cold Spring bus stop for magnet students required 2 school buses to accommodate all the kids coming from that area. That would suggest that Cold Spring area kids are overrepresented at tpms magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another thing has been mentioned is whether the kid has chance to find academic peer group in your home middle school. Very trick part, highly implicating you must do much better in some W school to be invited to attend these selective programs. Actually, same thing has been happening in elementary gifted centers. Competition into Cold Spring GT program is totally different story from into Barnslay, Clear Spring, Dr. Chews, Pineoak. I do know a couple of kids have much higher score than admitted kids in non-Cold Spring GT program, but they even could not be put on waiting list in Cold Spring GT program.

First, it's Barnsley, not Barnslay, and second, competition to get into Barnsley is not 'a totally different story' compared with Cold Spring, it's on par.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me understand this. So they will select kids for Takoma Math/Science program without using math in the assessment test??

Yes, I spoke to the MCPS reps after the event and they confirmed that the test was changed to evaluate how a child thinks (reasoning ability) and also because MCPS is aware that there is test prepping going on and that is why MCPS is not providing sample questions/practice exam to level the playing field.

That can't be good for the test prep industry in Montgomery County. Maybe the governor should issue an executive order about this, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The selected ones will account for around 40% of all Grade 5 students in 80 elementary schools in Takoma and Eastern catching area;
Both magnet programs will only have one assessment and a questionnaire. The assessment will happen in local elementary schools, different times with different schools (more like elementary school GT test). No math part will be included, only verbal and non-verbal reasoning skill test. The assessment and non-scored questionnaire will last around 2 and half hours.

Same information has been distributed to my DC's HGC Grade 5 students today.

I smell CogAt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another thing has been mentioned is whether the kid has chance to find academic peer group in your home middle school. Very trick part, highly implicating you must do much better in some W school to be invited to attend these selective programs. Actually, same thing has been happening in elementary gifted centers. Competition into Cold Spring GT program is totally different story from into Barnslay, Clear Spring, Dr. Chews, Pineoak. I do know a couple of kids have much higher score than admitted kids in non-Cold Spring GT program, but they even could not be put on waiting list in Cold Spring GT program.

This. It's all about selecting who mcps wants to select. Lastly year I started the thread on how W school students were specifically kept out from Blair despite of good test scores and credentials. The little tricky part from yesterday- 3000 will be selected based on Map M and R and PARCC and committee will take in to consideration if home middle school can fit the bill to provide to these high achievers rather than Takoma park. Now there only they have sifted who they want in and then written test among those 3000 can further sift the 100. Would I want my child to go to TPMS if selected in that 100 as there will be peer group activities that could have some that are actually not the gifted but mcps selected based on race and not on academic credentials.

At the tpms open house for accepted students 2 years ago, the director mentioned that Cold Spring bus stop for magnet students required 2 school buses to accommodate all the kids coming from that area. That would suggest that Cold Spring area kids are overrepresented at tpms magnet.

Wootten cluster sends the most kids to Blair aside from the TPMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They said the selection is race neutral, the performance on assessment will be used to validate your general school performance (Grade 5 first marking period, MAP-M, MAP-R). Some key data points may be missing from some kids' profile, such as students from private schools, from non-MCPS schools before Grade 5.

The selection must be race-neutral, by law.

BY LAW? Hopefully! It is so clear that they remove math part to alleviate this outstanding strength for Asian kids. My DC does not care about this change at all. But, the test focus on literacy and reasoning, which would automatically put HGC kids a better position provided that ES gifted program is humanity focused.

No, No, No. Spatial reasoning will gather the kids that would be good in a TP type school - it's not about taking "Asian" kids out of it (btw - "Asian" does not automatically bestow some magical math ability on a child - just fyi). By not testing math skills that can be taught, learned and gamed through Kumon/other math drilling centers, they are trying to level the playing field - because such a test is not a fair indication of any child's giftedness - but is a fair indication of how much involvement the family has. Since the purpose of this broadened classification and testing is to take the family involvment out of the equation, then a skills-based math assessment in January is not necessary. Further, the children who are doing very well in Compacted Math and on Map-M will have that show up in the other information that IS considered.

[Anonymous]

To those who went to the Open house: did they say when the test is taking place? Is it on a regular school day or on a weekend, like before?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To those who went to the Open house: did they say when the test is taking place? Is it on a regular school day or on a weekend, like before?

They said a Saturday - likely January 6, but could be a different day for your child and you should read the letter you get in December inviting your child to take the exam.

[Anonymous]

Also, NO essays for application - so that could help some of the kids that are less writing-inclined but still would thrive at TP (Eastern's curriculum is heavily writing focused, so I would highly recommend thinking twice before sending a child there who does not want to spend lots of time developing writing skills). And I for one am happy to not have to write a parent essay regarding why my child would benefit - since I truly believe that most children would benefit from the curriculum at Eastern/TPMS and my child is not some special snowflake that needs more than any other child. That said, truly thankful that said child did get into one of the magnet schools and is thriving there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me understand this. So they will select kids for Takoma Math/Science program without using math in the assessment test??

Because not all students do well in assessment tests. Some students are mathematical but that is exhibited in other areas - singing, dancing or sports, for example.

Some kids are good in math and science, except it is not evident in their school work or tests. They may be even failing in standardized tests but you can understand that they are gifted because that is evident by their painting or drawing skills.

Painting and drawing skills are very important for a child who may one day become a plastic surgeon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me understand this. So they will select kids for Takoma Math/Science program without using math in the assessment test??

Because not all students do well in assessment tests. Some students are mathematical but that is exhibited in other areas - singing, dancing or sports, for example.

Some kids are good in math and science, except it is not evident in their school work or tests. They may be even failing in standardized tests but you can understand that they are gifted because that is evident by their painting or drawing skills.

Painting and drawing skills are very important for a child who may one day become a plastic surgeon.

This might be on-point satire if the application process for the Takoma Math/Science program involved demonstration of painting and drawing skills. But it doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let me understand this. So they will select kids for Takoma Math/Science program without using math in the assessment test??

Yes, I spoke to the MCPS reps after the event and they confirmed that the test was changed to evaluate how a child thinks (reasoning ability) and also because MCPS is aware that there is test prepping going on and that is why MCPS is not providing sample questions/practice exam to level the playing field.

That can't be good for the test prep industry in Montgomery County. Maybe the governor should issue an executive order about this, too.

I think more opaque the admission criteria, more the test prep industry will thrive.

I have seen AA and HI students who were taken in highly selective programs just to boost MCPS numbers crash and burn in these programs. Currently, many students in the magnet programs are supplementing in some way and they are not relying just on the magnet programs to get ahead. The test prep centers have also become a tutoring center since many years. Students who are attending these centers are not going there because they need academic intervention, in fact many of these students are much more accelerated than the magnet programs that they are in.

Most AA and HI students are not getting any supplemental help at home or school. Most importantly, even if programs for academic enrichment and accelerations are put in the school, the schools cannot force these students to take supplemental help. The achievement gap has become the problem of the school systems to solve, where as it should be the problem of the parents to solve. The school system need to only provide programs for tutoring and supplementing in the school, and parents should make their children comply in attending these programs.

The AA and HI students who have done well in highly selective programs are usually those who belonged to middle class homes were education is valued, parents are educated and are well aware of the benefit of magnet programs. Most are immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean and do not carry the historical burden of slavery.

The magnets are not seen as the end all by most magnet parents. Mainly they want their students in these programs because of the peer group and acceleration. As such the magnet parents are putting a lot of time and resources in the education of their children. Thanks to MCPS's well-intentioned but misguided attempts, the achievement gaps are only going to become bigger and wider.

This is boom time for the test prep centers.

[Anonymous]

Wait. If, as you say, "many students" in the magnets are getting expensive outside of school support, why not just slow down the curriculum?

Everyone complains about how MCPS is going to "water down" the magnets, but it sounds like the magnets may actually NEED to be watered down if the only way to do well in them is to pay for outside tutoring.