Racism / Classism on DCurbanmom trolls or true?

[Anonymous]

You're curious about why I'm curious??? I'm interested because a few posters are lobbing criticism at people who don't know the details about how Banneker operates and what it's admissions situation is, so I decided to educate myself. Isn't that what people want - for posters to be educated about Banneker?

So now I know that Banneker used to assign seats based on a quota system to ensure adequate black representation. Another quote from Super Reed in that article was that DCPS was 97% black at the time, so the fear of having too many white students at Banneker was nonsensical. So now I'm curious whether any of you know whether Banneker still uses a quota system. I looked at Banneker's website, and it doesn't give much detail. Does anyone know the answer?

Yes. I'm not sure why a quota system would matter for a school like Banneker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is why I think soooo many of the white people in DC are racist AF. THERE ARE NO WHITE KIDS AT BANNEKER.

You're curious about why I'm curious??? I'm interested because a few posters are lobbing criticism at people who don't know the details about how Banneker operates and what it's admissions situation is, so I decided to educate myself. Isn't that what people want - for posters to be educated about Banneker?

So now I know that Banneker used to assign seats based on a quota system to ensure adequate black representation. Another quote from Super Reed in that article was that DCPS was 97% black at the time, so the fear of having too many white students at Banneker was nonsensical. So now I'm curious whether any of you know whether Banneker still uses a quota system. I looked at Banneker's website, and it doesn't give much detail. Does anyone know the answer?

So your research includes an article from 1998 and then you ask the people who actually know something about Banneker to tell you how admissions works now? Lazy.

It's actually laughable that you quoted an article from almost 20 years ago but couldn't, you know, just go to their website or Bannekers website on dcps to find out actual information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't speak for everyone, but here is my view: My primary objective is my children; I will do whatever I can to make sure they get a good education. That means I want them at a well-run school that's not overcrowded. That means I want them with capable teachers who are focused on teaching all the students, and not just trying to drag the most unprepared students up to the bare minimum of "proficient." That means I want my children surrounded by other kids who want to learn and are not being disruptive. That means I want them in a reasonably safe neighborhood, preferably close to home. Those are my basic criteria; everything else is icing on the cake for me. I would be even more happy if my children were in a school with loads of racial and class diversity - even a school where my child is a distinct racial and class minority - but only if my basic criteria are met.

That's what I want in a school for my children. I suspect most parents - regardless of race or class - want something similar. If you think any of that makes me racist or classist, then you need to explain how.

that's fine. but don't come posting on here about how your white kid can't possibly mix with the "project kids" at Jefferson because they bring the SES average down. Just go self-segregate and accept that you don't believe in diversity.

Go to hell. You don't know me or my family, so don't tell me what I do or don't believe. If you want to explain why you think it's wrong to want my kids at good schools, I'm all ears. But if you just want to call me names, then screw you.

wow, hit a nerve! look, you are the parent and it is your right to educate your kid the way you see fit. but to move to a gentrifying neighborhood in DC and then make a huge deal about how your kids can't go to school with "those" kids and how DCPS needs to cater to your kid's need to be apart from "those" kids, it just ugly.

Yeah, when you inch toward calling me a racist, you're damn right you hit a nerve. You better back off because you don't know me, you don't know what neighborhood I live in, and you don't know what school choices I made. Take your "those kids" crap and shove it. I've got no more time to waste with you. You don't know anything about me, but you judge me. I'm done with you.

Good for you for telling the PP to shove it. Your initial post was completely reasonable. Really tired of posters judging others based on limited information and their own prejudice.

the theme of this thread is racism and classism. this PP seems to be arguing that DC schools are inherently unsuited to her child. The racism/classism comes through loud and clear.

You clearly need to work on your reading comprehension, because that's not what she was saying.

OP's argument is that she does not want her children to go to school with children of other races and classes, despite living in a very mixed race and class city.

The PP said: "That means I want my children surrounded by other kids who want to learn and are not being disruptive. That means I want them in a reasonably safe neighborhood, preferably close to home. Those are my basic criteria; everything else is icing on the cake for me. I would be even more happy if my children were in a school with loads of racial and class diversity - even a school where my child is a distinct racial and class minority - but only if my basic criteria are met." So that's precisely not what you are claiming. If you assume that "other kids who want to learn and are not being disruptive" means white, higher SES kids only, then you are the racist and classist, not she.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is why I think soooo many of the white people in DC are racist AF. THERE ARE NO WHITE KIDS AT BANNEKER.

I was shouting this from the rooftops in some thread not too long ago. Not only won't they consider sending their kids there, they didn't even take the time to look up the data to realize it isn't a school only for black kids. People literally kept saying that.

I just looked up some news articles about Banneker's history, and I saw this ...

Washington Post, 1988
In 1980, [DCPS Superintendent Vincent] Reed's plan passed the school board. But four month later, the board, convinced the school cater to middle class whites, reversed itself and killed the idea. ... Reed floated one last proposal ... A quota system would give slots to every D.C. ward; areas east of the Anacostia River got more seats than Ward 3, west of Rock Creek Park.

Are Bannker's admissions still based on a quota system?

Can one of you Banneker experts answer this question?

I doubt many people who know Banneker well spend time on DCUM.

Curious why a quota system matters to you, though. Thirty years ago, ALL DCPS schools were considered subpar, particularly those EOTP. Schools east of the Anacostia were even lower. Banneker was a doorway out for families that didn't have private schools as an option.

On the rare (more like nonexistent) chance that white families were going to start taking spots, there was very good reason to reserve seats for other wards.

You're curious about why I'm curious??? I'm interested because a few posters are lobbing criticism at people who don't know the details about how Banneker operates and what it's admissions situation is, so I decided to educate myself. Isn't that what people want - for posters to be educated about Banneker?

So now I know that Banneker used to assign seats based on a quota system to ensure adequate black representation. Another quote from Super Reed in that article was that DCPS was 97% black at the time, so the fear of having too many white students at Banneker was nonsensical. So now I'm curious whether any of you know whether Banneker still uses a quota system. I looked at Banneker's website, and it doesn't give much detail. Does anyone know the answer?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Benjamin+Banneker+high+school+admissions+quotas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Different poster. The term "unprepared students" means poor and brown in DCUM vernacular. Maybe that's not what the pp meant, but that's how it's read.

I've been surprised to learn that most of the ESL students outperform my high SES kid in his EOTP school. I'm not worried about it but it's a reminder that the unprepared label is meaningless. Wealth and coming from a "good home" is also meaningless as a predictor of behavior.

Sounds to me like maybe your child is an example of an "unprepared student."

Don't be a jerk. Poster has not said anything rude about anyone. For all you know, her student has some extra needs. Check yourself.

Fair point; I apologize. I am the PP who she referred to though, and she's implying that I was somehow using code words to refer to poor and brown children (which is absolutely false), so I was frustrated when I responded.

To be clear, I was referring to any student - regardless of race or HHI - who is making it hard for the other students to learn. The other poster can decide for herself whether her child fits that description.

I'm the PP whose kid is outperformed by ESL kids. I should have been clearer that it's just based on my observation of the kids' classroom. I don't know about test scores or other measures for the entire school - I don't really pay attention to them.

I don't believe you though, when you say you didn't know "unprepared" meant poor and brown. It's not a word people use in conversation but it's used on DCUM quite commonly as synonymous with low income. And in the DC area, low income means black/Hispanic.

And if you honestly didn't know that, aren't you glad you do now?

My kid is actually brown, but not low-income, not special needs and - I swear to this - not unprepared. He's just unconcerned with proving all of that to anyone and I happen to be okay with that for now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is why I think soooo many of the white people in DC are racist AF. THERE ARE NO WHITE KIDS AT BANNEKER.

I was shouting this from the rooftops in some thread not too long ago. Not only won't they consider sending their kids there, they didn't even take the time to look up the data to realize it isn't a school only for black kids. People literally kept saying that.

Why is is racist to go to Wilson instead of Banneker?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is why I think soooo many of the white people in DC are racist AF. THERE ARE NO WHITE KIDS AT BANNEKER.

I was shouting this from the rooftops in some thread not too long ago. Not only won't they consider sending their kids there, they didn't even take the time to look up the data to realize it isn't a school only for black kids. People literally kept saying that.

I just looked up some news articles about Banneker's history, and I saw this ...

Washington Post, 1988
In 1980, [DCPS Superintendent Vincent] Reed's plan passed the school board. But four month later, the board, convinced the school cater to middle class whites, reversed itself and killed the idea. ... Reed floated one last proposal ... A quota system would give slots to every D.C. ward; areas east of the Anacostia River got more seats than Ward 3, west of Rock Creek Park.

Are Bannker's admissions still based on a quota system?

Can one of you Banneker experts answer this question?

I doubt many people who know Banneker well spend time on DCUM.

Curious why a quota system matters to you, though. Thirty years ago, ALL DCPS schools were considered subpar, particularly those EOTP. Schools east of the Anacostia were even lower. Banneker was a doorway out for families that didn't have private schools as an option.

On the rare (more like nonexistent) chance that white families were going to start taking spots, there was very good reason to reserve seats for other wards.

You're curious about why I'm curious??? I'm interested because a few posters are lobbing criticism at people who don't know the details about how Banneker operates and what it's admissions situation is, so I decided to educate myself. Isn't that what people want - for posters to be educated about Banneker?

So now I know that Banneker used to assign seats based on a quota system to ensure adequate black representation. Another quote from Super Reed in that article was that DCPS was 97% black at the time, so the fear of having too many white students at Banneker was nonsensical. So now I'm curious whether any of you know whether Banneker still uses a quota system. I looked at Banneker's website, and it doesn't give much detail. Does anyone know the answer?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Benjamin+Banneker+high+school+admissions+quotas

I don't know about Banneker, but it looks like Walls does, so why wouldn't Banneker too?

[Anonymous]

Admissions requirements =/= quotas from different wards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Different poster. The term "unprepared students" means poor and brown in DCUM vernacular. Maybe that's not what the pp meant, but that's how it's read.

I've been surprised to learn that most of the ESL students outperform my high SES kid in his EOTP school. I'm not worried about it but it's a reminder that the unprepared label is meaningless. Wealth and coming from a "good home" is also meaningless as a predictor of behavior.

Sounds to me like maybe your child is an example of an "unprepared student."

Don't be a jerk. Poster has not said anything rude about anyone. For all you know, her student has some extra needs. Check yourself.

Fair point; I apologize. I am the PP who she referred to though, and she's implying that I was somehow using code words to refer to poor and brown children (which is absolutely false), so I was frustrated when I responded.

To be clear, I was referring to any student - regardless of race or HHI - who is making it hard for the other students to learn. The other poster can decide for herself whether her child fits that description.

I'm the PP whose kid is outperformed by ESL kids. I should have been clearer that it's just based on my observation of the kids' classroom. I don't know about test scores or other measures for the entire school - I don't really pay attention to them.

I don't believe you though, when you say you didn't know "unprepared" meant poor and brown. It's not a word people use in conversation but it's used on DCUM quite commonly as synonymous with low income. And in the DC area, low income means black/Hispanic.

And if you honestly didn't know that, aren't you glad you do now?

My kid is actually brown, but not low-income, not special needs and - I swear to this - not unprepared. He's just unconcerned with proving all of that to anyone and I happen to be okay with that for now.

Man, I wish I could find a person like you to be friends with in dc. I like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is why I think soooo many of the white people in DC are racist AF. THERE ARE NO WHITE KIDS AT BANNEKER.

You're curious about why I'm curious??? I'm interested because a few posters are lobbing criticism at people who don't know the details about how Banneker operates and what it's admissions situation is, so I decided to educate myself. Isn't that what people want - for posters to be educated about Banneker?

So now I know that Banneker used to assign seats based on a quota system to ensure adequate black representation. Another quote from Super Reed in that article was that DCPS was 97% black at the time, so the fear of having too many white students at Banneker was nonsensical. So now I'm curious whether any of you know whether Banneker still uses a quota system. I looked at Banneker's website, and it doesn't give much detail. Does anyone know the answer?

So your research includes an article from 1998 and then you ask the people who actually know something about Banneker to tell you how admissions works now? Lazy.

It's actually laughable that you quoted an article from almost 20 years ago but couldn't, you know, just go to their website or Bannekers website on dcps to find out actual information.

I did go to the website. If you know the answer, let's hear it. Quit playing games. I think you have no idea so you're just bluffing.

[Anonymous]

I think Banneker is actually a great example of the ways in which racism plays out. White parents in DC justify not sending their kids to any DC high school other than Wilson or Walls (if kid gets in). They say it's because they want academic rigor above all other criteria. If that's the case, then Banneker should be on their list, right? Academic rigor galore. But if you ask them about that, suddenly other criteria - like diversity and distance from home - become very important. I'm fine with diversity and distance from home being key criteria, but if you want academic rigor from a high school most and you don't even consider Banneker, I have a hard time putting my finger on what other reason you could possibly have.

I send my very Scandinavian looking daughter to our neighborhood school. She's not the most advanced student in her 19-kid first grade, but she's definitely in the top 5 at any given time. When I talk to other parents in this area about her school experience, they don't ask what they're learning in first grade. They ask about the "social issues" and them at some point pretty quick after bringing up social issues, they ask if it's hard for her to be the only "high SES white student" in her class (she's actually one of two, but that's irrelevant to these parents). They are desperately concerned about what their kid's social experience will be as a consequence of their kid's ethnicity, and I've watched for several years as they try to figure out ways to ask the question without actually asking the question.

That's where the microaggressions come in, on this board and elsewhere. They don't want to come right out and say they're concerned about too many poor and/or brown kids, but they do want to know how those kids will affect their kid's experience. So they say "unprepared students" or "students whose parents don't value education" or ask about "behavioral issues" as though those were unique to the kids they're concerned about.

I understand them wanting to know, but I truly think it would be better if we had a very candid conversation about the effects of race and class on the educational experiences of DC kids. There are effects, and our kids will all deal with them, whether we manage to scrape together the $700k+ to buy a house in bounds for "a good school" or move to Bethesda or whatever. Talking about things from a place of sincerity, rather than derision and skepticism, would be helpful for me, but I've been told repeatedly by this board that I'm doing my daughter a lifelong disservice by sending her to a school where there are few children who look like her.

[Anonymous]

Wilson student SAT scores are higher than Banneker students.

So your argument is worthless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm black and live a short distance from Banneker. It's obviously a good school, though I have no idea if my elementary school kid is cut out for it. I also don't even know if he'd even want to go there.

But there are so many other factors that we'll consider as a family when the time comes. Social well-being, safety, commute, extra-curriculars. I don't judge any other family using the same criteria and some of those take Banneker out of consideration when there are other options.

I'm not sure why some people forget that. It's almost as if the one thing that would truly make Banneker the best school is more white people.

And I know that's not true.

I don't think Banneker needs white people. I think white people need Banneker.

[Anonymous]

If you want to claim that "unprepared students" is really some code word for poor and brown children, then please provide me the correct words to describe students who are unprepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to claim that "unprepared students" is really some code word for poor and brown children, then please provide me the correct words to describe students who are unprepared.

I think you should just go ahead and use the term unprepared in any way you see fit, but then be prepared for the response it receives.

Maybe as a quid pro quo, you can share how you know that kids in a given school or classroom are unprepared and how you find schools where the kids are all prepared.

A lot of DC parents would be grateful if you could make the distinction discernible.