Organized Religion seems harmful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm having a hard time seeing the benefits of organized religion, especially fundamental sects like Evangelicalism Christianity. To believe in a book written 2000 years ago about a man who died, rose again, and burning bushes, and a big ark...doesn't it just seem a little far-fetched? Studies also shows adherents to organized religions are more close minded, than agnostics, atheists and people who are just generally spiritual. What keeps you wrapped up in it? How can you disregard the thousands of other religions around the world and say "no, this is it. This is the one. I know it. Those others are wrong and something bad will happen to them for not believing in my religion."? Is that not a divisive mindset? I also worry about children being indoctrinated so early. They have no control over their beliefs and those neural synapses that form memories are so comprised at such a young age. Okay, thanks for listening.

Humans are tool-using animals. Just like a car or money, religion is a tool. So is secularism, environmentalism, etc.

The thing with all tools is they are just tools; they all can be used for good or bad ends--and it seems like the human condition is such that we take each tool and some use it for good and some for bad ends. Great example of this is the internet. If you look at religion--I'll use one I know well--Catholicism--well, look at the priest scandal, however; also look at the creation of hospitals, which was a Catholic thing. Before hospitals, people were just outcast. And Catholic hospitals would take anyone--not just Catholics.

As for your comments on "the book," I can tell you the Catholic perspective is one can believe the stories as allegories--to teach us something. For instance, Adam and Eve is a great example about how the humans can take a great situation, not appreciate it, and mess it up--which happens all the time in real life!

Does the Catholic perspective allow for believing the New Testament stories as allegory?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And then there are many of us who agree with him, even if they wouldn't word it in the same way or take the time to butt heads with the atheist haters.

Labeling people "atheist haters" for being annoyed with this one poster's disruptive antics and trolling isn't helpful. Lots of us have no problem with atheists and many, like me, have atheist friends. It's this particular poster's gross distortions and fact-free insults that are annoying to so many of us here.

This is what I want to know: does the angry atheist work for a secular group or otherwise do atheism for a living? Unless somebody is paying him/her to troll social media, it's hard to understand why anybody would choose to spend 24/7 hating on religion on a place like DCUM. If you think you only have one life, lose the hate and get out there and see the beauty in the rest of your life.

Are you pointing this out to the atheist hater? No? Didn't think so. Feel free to shovel that condescending crap back into whatever orifice it came from.

So the answer is yes, you're paid to be a public nuisance?

I'm not the atheist you obsess over but, sure, I'll take a check. Send it right over.

[Anonymous]

Science is a creation. Like matter, time, math, life and order.

Atheism is the worship of creation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clarification -- does "atheist hater" refer to a person who hates atheists or to an atheist who says hateful things about religion?

"Atheist hater," as described by a single atheist poster here, seems to refer to all of the numerous posters who are annoyed by the 1-2 trolling atheists. Note this doesn't exclude liking many other atheists who are thoughtful and respectful.

Op here. I'm not a trolling atheist. I genuinely believe in a merciful power. What I don't believe in is the rigid orthodoxy of organized religion and all the negative consequences it imposes on the world. Me writing about those things isn't "bigoted" or "intolerant" or even ignorant. These are facts. Organzives and especially Orthodox religions are generally oppressive to women, hostile to sexual minorityes and science, and cause people to judge others morals. Concealing or obfuscating with excuses that isn't helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clarification -- does "atheist hater" refer to a person who hates atheists or to an atheist who says hateful things about religion?

"Atheist hater," as described by a single atheist poster here, seems to refer to all of the numerous posters who are annoyed by the 1-2 trolling atheists. Note this doesn't exclude liking many other atheists who are thoughtful and respectful.

There is no need to rehash many of the old thread, but there are certainly atheist haters on here. People who start threads and respond to threads in ways to denigrate atheists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Science is a creation. Like matter, time, math, life and order.

Atheism is the worship of creation.

Not really, but feel free to believe that if you need that amount of order in your life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science is a creation. Like matter, time, math, life and order.

Atheism is the worship of creation.

Not really, but feel free to believe that if you need that amount of order in your life.

Yep. Really. a belief that time, math, life and matter itself came from nothing is hilarious. but feel free to believe that if that's what you need to keep your sanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science is a creation. Like matter, time, math, life and order.

Atheism is the worship of creation.

Not really, but feel free to believe that if you need that amount of order in your life.

Yep. Really. a belief that time, math, life and matter itself came from nothing is hilarious. but feel free to believe that if that's what you need to keep your sanity.

And feel free to believe that time, math, life and matter came from an invisible being who lives in the sky if that's what you need to keep your sanity. Just please try not to denigrate people who don't believe that story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science is a creation. Like matter, time, math, life and order.

Atheism is the worship of creation.

Not really, but feel free to believe that if you need that amount of order in your life.

Yep. Really. a belief that time, math, life and matter itself came from nothing is hilarious. but feel free to believe that if that's what you need to keep your sanity.

Okey dokey, hater!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science is a creation. Like matter, time, math, life and order.

Atheism is the worship of creation.

Not really, but feel free to believe that if you need that amount of order in your life.

Yep. Really. a belief that time, math, life and matter itself came from nothing is hilarious. but feel free to believe that if that's what you need to keep your sanity.

And feel free to believe that time, math, life and matter came from an invisible being who lives in the sky if that's what you need to keep your sanity. Just please try not to denigrate people who don't believe that story.

You could both step away from that silly argument if you could acknowledge that "God" simply is. It doesn't need to go beyond that for many people. Math, Science, Life, etc are part of a creative consciousness that some people call "God". "Me", "I", "You", "Source", "Love", "Life", "Universe", etc. could all be thought of a synonyms for the word "God". Reality transcends our simple language. We are all connected. That connection, whatever name you choose to use, is God. The I AM. The beginning and the end and everything in between. It's so much simpler when you allow creation to be the creator. And the creator, creation. If you are a Christian like I Am, your stories fit perfectly into this understanding of God. And you are better able to accept all paths, including atheism, as sacred.

/minister

[Anonymous]

Its obvious that the creator is beyond our ability to comprehend. Just the fact that we are basically in a terrarium shaped like a ball where we go around in circles and come back to the place we started that only goes a couple miles high and a couple miles underground before we hit molten rock gives a hint that we are being watched. Just imagine a being that can create time and math for us to have some sort of order we can understand but itself exists outside of time and order. That is probably closer to the reality than everything coming from nothing for no reason which is absolutely ridiculous. The actual reality is probably as far beyond our comprehension as explaining a microprocessor to an ant. There is no denying intelligent design though. It is everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science is a creation. Like matter, time, math, life and order.

Atheism is the worship of creation.

Not really, but feel free to believe that if you need that amount of order in your life.

Yep. Really. a belief that time, math, life and matter itself came from nothing is hilarious. but feel free to believe that if that's what you need to keep your sanity.

And feel free to believe that time, math, life and matter came from an invisible being who lives in the sky if that's what you need to keep your sanity. Just please try not to denigrate people who don't believe that story.

You could both step away from that silly argument if you could acknowledge that "God" simply is. It doesn't need to go beyond that for many people. Math, Science, Life, etc are part of a creative consciousness that some people call "God". "Me", "I", "You", "Source", "Love", "Life", "Universe", etc. could all be thought of a synonyms for the word "God". Reality transcends our simple language. We are all connected. That connection, whatever name you choose to use, is God. The I AM. The beginning and the end and everything in between. It's so much simpler when you allow creation to be the creator. And the creator, creation. If you are a Christian like I Am, your stories fit perfectly into this understanding of God. And you are better able to accept all paths, including atheism, as sacred.

/minister

Some people call that God, but some people don't think of it as god, depite the broad definition the minister provides for god. For some people god is a particular deity of a particular religion or set of religions (e.g., Abrahamic, incl. Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

Other people don't use the term "god" to describe "Source", "Love", "Life" whatever. They prefer to use more specific words instead. They will use the word God to describe their deity, which they may think of as being in heaven (as described in their holy book) or as being everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science is a creation. Like matter, time, math, life and order.

Atheism is the worship of creation.

Not really, but feel free to believe that if you need that amount of order in your life.

Yep. Really. a belief that time, math, life and matter itself came from nothing is hilarious. but feel free to believe that if that's what you need to keep your sanity.

And feel free to believe that time, math, life and matter came from an invisible being who lives in the sky if that's what you need to keep your sanity. Just please try not to denigrate people who don't believe that story.

You could both step away from that silly argument if you could acknowledge that "God" simply is. It doesn't need to go beyond that for many people. Math, Science, Life, etc are part of a creative consciousness that some people call "God". "Me", "I", "You", "Source", "Love", "Life", "Universe", etc. could all be thought of a synonyms for the word "God". Reality transcends our simple language. We are all connected. That connection, whatever name you choose to use, is God. The I AM. The beginning and the end and everything in between. It's so much simpler when you allow creation to be the creator. And the creator, creation. If you are a Christian like I Am, your stories fit perfectly into this understanding of God. And you are better able to accept all paths, including atheism, as sacred.

/minister

I acknowledge that you believe God simply is. It probably does give you comfort to have some kind of explanation for everything.

But I don't think there is a god or any bigger connection. And I'm 100% OK with that. Not looking for some deeper connection to create order in my life. Sorry!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science is a creation. Like matter, time, math, life and order.

Atheism is the worship of creation.

Not really, but feel free to believe that if you need that amount of order in your life.

Yep. Really. a belief that time, math, life and matter itself came from nothing is hilarious. but feel free to believe that if that's what you need to keep your sanity.

And feel free to believe that time, math, life and matter came from an invisible being who lives in the sky if that's what you need to keep your sanity. Just please try not to denigrate people who don't believe that story.

You could both step away from that silly argument if you could acknowledge that "God" simply is. It doesn't need to go beyond that for many people. Math, Science, Life, etc are part of a creative consciousness that some people call "God". "Me", "I", "You", "Source", "Love", "Life", "Universe", etc. could all be thought of a synonyms for the word "God". Reality transcends our simple language. We are all connected. That connection, whatever name you choose to use, is God. The I AM. The beginning and the end and everything in between. It's so much simpler when you allow creation to be the creator. And the creator, creation. If you are a Christian like I Am, your stories fit perfectly into this understanding of God. And you are better able to accept all paths, including atheism, as sacred.

/minister

Some people call that God, but some people don't think of it as god, depite the broad definition the minister provides for god. For some people god is a particular deity of a particular religion or set of religions (e.g., Abrahamic, incl. Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

Other people don't use the term "god" to describe "Source", "Love", "Life" whatever. They prefer to use more specific words instead. They will use the word God to describe their deity, which they may think of as being in heaven (as described in their holy book) or as being everywhere.

But respectfully, that's kind of my point. I'm not sure our language could ever adequately define "God". And I think that's a good thing. Our relationship with Creation or with what a spiritual person migh call God or Spirit is so very personal. I would never want to define that relationship for another being. If an atheist finds cosmic order in Science and Mathematics, in my mind that IS Devine. That is his answer to the puzzle of the universe. People change their views on religion and spirituality. The Christian you meet today could be an atheist tomorrow. And I know lots of atheists who find spirituality later. As a Hospice minister, I see this almost every day.

It's a journey. The only thing I know with certainty is that none of us have the answers. We are all learning, growing, and changing. It's important that we learn to acknowledge that our faith is not the only one that is "right". I can allow space for both of us to be right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Science is a creation. Like matter, time, math, life and order.

Atheism is the worship of creation.

Not really, but feel free to believe that if you need that amount of order in your life.

Yep. Really. a belief that time, math, life and matter itself came from nothing is hilarious. but feel free to believe that if that's what you need to keep your sanity.

And feel free to believe that time, math, life and matter came from an invisible being who lives in the sky if that's what you need to keep your sanity. Just please try not to denigrate people who don't believe that story.

You could both step away from that silly argument if you could acknowledge that "God" simply is. It doesn't need to go beyond that for many people. Math, Science, Life, etc are part of a creative consciousness that some people call "God". "Me", "I", "You", "Source", "Love", "Life", "Universe", etc. could all be thought of a synonyms for the word "God". Reality transcends our simple language. We are all connected. That connection, whatever name you choose to use, is God. The I AM. The beginning and the end and everything in between. It's so much simpler when you allow creation to be the creator. And the creator, creation. If you are a Christian like I Am, your stories fit perfectly into this understanding of God. And you are better able to accept all paths, including atheism, as sacred.

/minister

I acknowledge that you believe God simply is. It probably does give you comfort to have some kind of explanation for everything.

But I don't think there is a god or any bigger connection. And I'm 100% OK with that. Not looking for some deeper connection to create order in my life. Sorry!

No need to be sorry. I honor your beliefs. And that is the most important thing we can do.