Organized Religion seems harmful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is not the attitude or belief system of most religions. You have a lot more to learn.

+1

Plus the organized atheist systems of Nazism and Communism weren't harmful at all.

Labeling Nazis as atheist is exactly the opposite of what actually happened. The Nazis were Christians, not atheists. The Nazis banned atheist organizations and closed secular schools. Heinrich Himmler did not allow atheists into the SS. In fact, the Nazis were very anti-atheist in part because of their hatred for the "godless Communists." Overwhelmingly, the Holocaust was perpetrated and enforced by Christians, not atheists. The Nazi regime was unquestionably a Christian regime, not an atheist regime.

There were definitely Nazis who were anti-religious,though they may have called themselves agnostics to avoid the Marxist taint. There were also some who pushed revived paganism, though it is difficult to credit any actually believed in it - some believed in various odd mystical cults. Some were christians (good quibble on perpetrated and enforced, since that is mostly lower level people, not high level) But some Christians were also persecuted, and heaven knows Jews (of all varieties of belief and non-belief, but while the persecution was racial, it was hardly friendly to the Jewish religion) were.

And that leaves the Communists, in particular the Stalinists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm having a hard time seeing the benefits of organized religion, especially fundamental sects like Evangelicalism Christianity. To believe in a book written 2000 years ago about a man who died, rose again, and burning bushes, and a big ark...doesn't it just seem a little far-fetched? Studies also shows adherents to organized religions are more close minded, than agnostics, atheists and people who are just generally spiritual. What keeps you wrapped up in it? How can you disregard the thousands of other religions around the world and say "no, this is it. This is the one. I know it. Those others are wrong and something bad will happen to them for not believing in my religion."? Is that not a divisive mindset? I also worry about children being indoctrinated so early. They have no control over their beliefs and those neural synapses that form memories are so comprised at such a young age. Okay, thanks for listening.

What studies are you referring to?

Studies do show that religious people are happier, healthier, and more engaged with their families than non-religious people.

http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2012/04/12/religion-makes-people-happierbut-why

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how-happiness/200806/happiness-and-religion-happiness-religion

http://www.livescience.com/9090-religion-people-happier-hint-god.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm having a hard time seeing the benefits of organized religion, especially fundamental sects like Evangelicalism Christianity. To believe in a book written 2000 years ago about a man who died, rose again, and burning bushes, and a big ark...doesn't it just seem a little far-fetched? Studies also shows adherents to organized religions are more close minded, than agnostics, atheists and people who are just generally spiritual. What keeps you wrapped up in it? How can you disregard the thousands of other religions around the world and say "no, this is it. This is the one. I know it. Those others are wrong and something bad will happen to them for not believing in my religion."? Is that not a divisive mindset? I also worry about children being indoctrinated so early. They have no control over their beliefs and those neural synapses that form memories are so comprised at such a young age. Okay, thanks for listening.

Do you not share your values and beliefs with your children?

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty much with the OP on this one. So much violence and conflict over religion, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust to ISIS. Yes, these were/are extremists, but so many wars and so many deaths. So why doesn't God reach out and at least guide people to a better understanding after all this time? Seems kind of crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm pretty much with the OP on this one. So much violence and conflict over religion, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust to ISIS. Yes, these were/are extremists, but so many wars and so many deaths. So why doesn't God reach out and at least guide people to a better understanding after all this time? Seems kind of crazy.

NP, but I have to go back to PP's point that Marxism and fascism haven't worked out that well either. Look over to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong-un and others and ask yourself whether atheism as state doctrine has done much better.

FWIW fascism is a nationalist/racist ideology rather than a religious one (weird parallels with the alt-right/Breitbart crowd, but I digress).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm pretty much with the OP on this one. So much violence and conflict over religion, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust to ISIS. Yes, these were/are extremists, but so many wars and so many deaths. So why doesn't God reach out and at least guide people to a better understanding after all this time? Seems kind of crazy.

NP, but I have to go back to PP's point that Marxism and fascism haven't worked out that well either. Look over to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong-un and others and ask yourself whether atheism as state doctrine has done much better.

FWIW fascism is a nationalist/racist ideology rather than a religious one (weird parallels with the alt-right/Breitbart crowd, but I digress).

There's no argument that Marxism and fascism are not better than religion -- but so what? They don't have God on their side. Religion does and if God is kind and cares about humans and offers us eternal life (depending on the religion) then religion ought to be better than a man-made government.

But some forms of government are good -- the happiest people are in Scandanavia, where religious belief is the lowest and socialist government provides health care and education.

[Anonymous]

OP, the purpose of this sub-forum (religion) is NOT to provide you with an outlet and audience to redicule, denigrate and troll.

It's for people to discuss religious topics. Not for you to tell us that you think it's far fetched and silly.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but this isn't the place for it. Your post is offensive, insensitive and insulting.

Go find a forum for atheism and post your thoughts there where they will be welcome.

But coming into this particular forum and telling others that something precious to them is stupid, is simply boorish and uncouth.

Please go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm pretty much with the OP on this one. So much violence and conflict over religion, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust to ISIS. Yes, these were/are extremists, but so many wars and so many deaths. So why doesn't God reach out and at least guide people to a better understanding after all this time? Seems kind of crazy.

NP, but I have to go back to PP's point that Marxism and fascism haven't worked out that well either. Look over to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong-un and others and ask yourself whether atheism as state doctrine has done much better.

FWIW fascism is a nationalist/racist ideology rather than a religious one (weird parallels with the alt-right/Breitbart crowd, but I digress).

All in all, though, I'd say the death toll that lies at the foot of religion is a heck of a lot bigger than anything else. Now, of course, a lot of that is that historically people have never been given much of a choice about whether to believe or not in their various societies, but still, there's a lot of very violent death directly attributable to religion in human history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, the purpose of this sub-forum (religion) is NOT to provide you with an outlet and audience to redicule, denigrate and troll.

It's for people to discuss religious topics. Not for you to tell us that you think it's far fetched and silly.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but this isn't the place for it. Your post is offensive, insensitive and insulting.

Go find a forum for atheism and post your thoughts there where they will be welcome.

But coming into this particular forum and telling others that something precious to them is stupid, is simply boorish and uncouth.

Please go away.

+1. OP is offering up a great example of an atheist being a jerk.

[Anonymous]

For a while the atheist troll seemed to have vanished, and I thought the moderator had finally banished that sad sack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm pretty much with the OP on this one. So much violence and conflict over religion, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust to ISIS. Yes, these were/are extremists, but so many wars and so many deaths. So why doesn't God reach out and at least guide people to a better understanding after all this time? Seems kind of crazy.

NP, but I have to go back to PP's point that Marxism and fascism haven't worked out that well either. Look over to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong-un and others and ask yourself whether atheism as state doctrine has done much better.

FWIW fascism is a nationalist/racist ideology rather than a religious one (weird parallels with the alt-right/Breitbart crowd, but I digress).

There's no argument that Marxism and fascism are not better than religion -- but so what? They don't have God on their side. Religion does and if God is kind and cares about humans and offers us eternal life (depending on the religion) then religion ought to be better than a man-made government.

But some forms of government are good -- the happiest people are in Scandanavia, where religious belief is the lowest and socialist government provides health care and education.

You don't get "God on your side" just because you're culturally from a certain religion or even wave your religiosity around.

God doesn't join your team just because you label yourself this or that. Progressive Christians think Trump and Paul Ryan are hypocrites and would certainly take issue with you saying "God is on their side." Even many evangelical leaders oppose the Right's social policies based on their understanding of the Gospels (except for the abortion issue which isn't actually in the Bible). Just because the Nazis were culturally Christian in no way puts God in their corner. Moderate Muslims feel the same way about ISIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm pretty much with the OP on this one. So much violence and conflict over religion, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust to ISIS. Yes, these were/are extremists, but so many wars and so many deaths. So why doesn't God reach out and at least guide people to a better understanding after all this time? Seems kind of crazy.

NP, but I have to go back to PP's point that Marxism and fascism haven't worked out that well either. Look over to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong-un and others and ask yourself whether atheism as state doctrine has done much better.

FWIW fascism is a nationalist/racist ideology rather than a religious one (weird parallels with the alt-right/
crowd, but I digress).

There's no argument that Marxism and fascism are not better than religion -- but so what? They don't have God on their side. Religion does and if God is kind and cares about humans and offers us eternal life (depending on the religion) then religion ought to be better than a man-made government.

But some forms of government are good -- the happiest people are in Scandanavia, where religious belief is the lowest and socialist government provides health care and education.

You don't get "God on your side" just because you're culturally from a certain religion or even wave your religiosity around.

God doesn't join your team just because you label yourself this or that. Progressive Christians think Trump and Paul Ryan are hypocrites and would certainly take issue with you saying "God is on their side." Even many evangelical leaders oppose the Right's social policies based on their understanding of the Gospels (except for the abortion issue which isn't actually in the Bible). Just because the Nazis were culturally Christian in no way puts God in their corner. Moderate Muslims feel the same way about ISIS.

Obviously, God wouldn't be "on your side" if you don't even believe in him. But still, God lets those people have happy lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm pretty much with the OP on this one. So much violence and conflict over religion, from the Inquisition to the Holocaust to ISIS. Yes, these were/are extremists, but so many wars and so many deaths. So why doesn't God reach out and at least guide people to a better understanding after all this time? Seems kind of crazy.

NP, but I have to go back to PP's point that Marxism and fascism haven't worked out that well either. Look over to Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong-un and others and ask yourself whether atheism as state doctrine has done much better.

FWIW fascism is a nationalist/racist ideology rather than a religious one (weird parallels with the alt-right/
crowd, but I digress).

There's no argument that Marxism and fascism are not better than religion -- but so what? They don't have God on their side. Religion does and if God is kind and cares about humans and offers us eternal life (depending on the religion) then religion ought to be better than a man-made government.

But some forms of government are good -- the happiest people are in Scandanavia, where religious belief is the lowest and socialist government provides health care and education.

You don't get "God on your side" just because you're culturally from a certain religion or even wave your religiosity around.

God doesn't join your team just because you label yourself this or that. Progressive Christians think Trump and Paul Ryan are hypocrites and would certainly take issue with you saying "God is on their side." Even many evangelical leaders oppose the Right's social policies based on their understanding of the Gospels (except for the abortion issue which isn't actually in the Bible). Just because the Nazis were culturally Christian in no way puts God in their corner. Moderate Muslims feel the same way about ISIS.

Obviously, God wouldn't be "on your side" if you don't even believe in him. But still, God lets those people have happy lives.

It's the hereafter they have to worry about.

[Anonymous]

Religion is basically just a way of people coming together to care for each other. This is a basic tenet of Christianity. Love one another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Religion is basically just a way of people coming together to care for each other. This is a basic tenet of Christianity. Love one another.

Not just Christianity.