Do you personally know of any situation where the father was granted primary full custody?

[Anonymous]

I know of three of these. The first two, the women walked. First one, left for another man who didn't want to raise her kids. Second one, left to go "be selfish" and "find herself". So, in both cases forfeited custody. The third one was a very bitter ex who tried hard to turn the kids against Dad and wound up losing custody over it.

[Anonymous]

I only know of one and the mom had a drug problem and no stable home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a divorce attorney, I have seen fathers get primary custody only in three circumstances:

(1) Mom doesn't want custody (used to be unheard of early in my practice, but now, in my 23rd year of practice, roughly once a year, I come across a mom who doesn't want custody).

(2) Father is a stay at home dad or works very little and has been the kids' primary caretaker for a long time.

(3) Mom has severe and documented mental or substance abuse problems. If the problems aren't documented, the man will need a slew of witnesses with nothing to gain (so, for instance, kids' teacher but not dad's meddling mom who is eager to edge out biological mom).

I have never seen a man get primary custody against an involved, normal mother who is fighting for custody. The most he can hope for is 50/50.

Can you bracket normal for us? Is averagely flawed, with cause for the occasional nothing-to-gain-witness's disapproval OK? The story upthread of the mom with very little visitation rights because "she came across as angry and vindictive" is terrifying. If someone was using expensive lawyers that I couldn't afford to take my kids away from me, in addition to whatever had led to the divorce, I just might come across as angry and vindictive too.

PP divorce lawyer here. I always roll my eyes when friends or relatives of the parent who lost custody claim their friend/relative was amazing and lost custody just because the spouse was richer or the non-custodial parent made a minor error like seeming upset in upsetting circumstances. There are certainly very biased, awful judges out there, but it is RARE that custody comes down to such simplistic factors. A lot of times friends and families aren't aware of the skeletons in the non-custodial parent's closet and are just speaking out of turn.

If your anger and vindictiveness make you do crazy things like go nuts in court, stalk your ex, or say insane things to the kids that your ex finds out about, then that's going to hurt your custody bid. If you can't control yourself when you have so much on the line, then maybe you really aren't the person little kids should be left with. But even that likely won't be dispositive of your custody fight unless you do something really crazy like physically attack your ex, have a series of outbursts in court, AND your ex has other documented instances of you being unstable.

I am the earlier poster whose DH gained primary physical custody of his kids when they were 4 and 7. It was very unusual because we were in a state that rarely gives dads custody and the kids were in what was called "tender years" back then. I'm not sure if they still use that terminology. We had them from 4 and 7 till they left for college. Here are some things that hurt her case -

She didn't listen to her attorney.
She refused to cooperate in mediation.
She was receiving $2,700 a month in support but was evicted from three homes, had utilities shut off over and over again....yet got breast implants.
She was not supporting the kids in school. At all. Teachers were complaining constantly about attendance and grades.
She was not abusive, but she was neglectful. The kids were not receiving regular dental or medical care. We provided the insurance.
She made every effort to interfere with visitation.
She would not let my DH talk to the kids on the phone.
In court she was so angry and vindictive that it was a little scary.

None of that would have likely cost her custody. But then -

She made false allegations of abuse against me. She accused me of sexually abusing my stepdaughter. You can imagine what that did to my life. It was by far the worst thing I have ever been through. Was I alone with her? Of course. I was a SAHM. Did I touch her privates? Yes. She was FOUR. I helped with baths. I wiped her bottom. She had an infection and required topical mediation. There was nothing I could say or do to prove my innocence. That God (literally) the court ordered psychiatrist testified that my stepdaughter told him that her mother told her to lie so that she wouldn't be "taken away forever". The ex fell apart on the stand and admitted that she "might have been wrong" about the abuse. The psychiatrist that interviewed the ex said he believed her extreme religious beliefs (very, very conservative fundie Baptist) were dangerous for the kids and everything that she said was steeped in anger and a need for revenge. He was concerned for my safety. And I'm not the one who caused her marriage to fall apart. He also said she seemed "detached from reality". The Guardian Ad Litem recommended primary custody go to my DH.

In the end the judge felt that it was in the kids' best interest to live with us. He felt we would better facilitate a relationship between the kids and both parents. He felt we could offer more stability. Both kids stated a strong preference towards living with us, but I don't think the judge really considered that because of their young age. She got every other weekend and four weeks during the summer. Alternating Holidays. After a few months, she stopped seeing the kids regularly. She probably saw them for about a week over the summer and for a few days during the winter holidays. Never for Christmas because she didn't want to buy gifts. She rarely if ever called.

If you ask my DH's ex-wife, anyone in her family, or her friends why she lost custody, she would say it was because we had more money and I was a SAHM. And the scary thing is that people actually believe her. It was so tempting to share the details of the case back then. I felt bad because she made my DH look like a monster for "taking away the kids". I was more emotional and wanted to defend him at every opportunity. He was adamant that we let it go. Looking back, I'm so glad we did the right thing and kept that to ourselves. Even as adults, the kids don't know the whole story. They even seem to have forgotten the parts that they were involved in. We were talking about family therapy a few months ago and the only thing they remember is playing board games with the doctor. Again, thank God.

Do not believe any mother who says she lost custody because of money. That's just not how the family court system works.

[Anonymous]

I know of a couple of cases where the husband got primary custody. In one case, it happened because the husband had a ton of money, retained a great lawyer and somehow convinced the judge that he could provide a more stable environment. I know of another case where the guy has full custody because the woman was an alcoholic drug abuser with some mental issues. He's definitely the more stable parent.

I also know of a few cases where the mom willingly gave up custody.

I think it is kind of a shitty thing to do - to grant sole custody to the dad - if the mom isn't unstable. But I don't think mothers should just automatically get primary custody. There are situations where the father is legitimately a better choice.

[Anonymous]

Oh good Georgia stepmom is back with her story again. Been a week or so since we trotted out that pony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh good Georgia stepmom is back with her story again. Been a week or so since we trotted out that pony.

Um. I do not live in Georgia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:STBX and I are battling over the kids. He is going for full custody and he seems to truly believe he will get it. I am looking for examples where the father was granted primary custody. I don't believe there's a snowball's chance in Hell that he will get what he wants, but it still scares me to think there's a remote possibility this could happen.

OP, think about settling for 50/50 custody and share the children's expenses as a ratio of your incomes. Exchange tax returns each year.
spell out the affected expenses, day care, summer and school break camps, medical, dental inc. ortho, college (make sure you go through college not just age 18). If there is child support for some reason, put in a COLA adjustment.
Make him carry life insurance and provide proof annually.
He gets one kid as tax deduction, you get the other. Try to keep the younger!


Read this thread:
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/190333.page

[Anonymous]

13:07, I think that most of the time judges are fair and do the right thing.

I'm also not naive enough to think that pro bono attorneys really do anything and everything they can for indigent clients, and other parents are deemed "able to afford" a lawyer, when really it's too much for their budget and so they do lose custody because of the cost.

They don't lose custody because the judge was unfair, but because they can't afford the long drawn out legal process that the other parent is able to afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh good Georgia stepmom is back with her story again. Been a week or so since we trotted out that pony.

Um. I do not live in Georgia.

13:07 is Georgia stepmom

[Anonymous]

My sister lost primary custody. My brother-in-law had been physically and emotionally abusive to her, and was willing to fight endlessly, and I think she just gave up. My parents were willing to help fund legal fees, but I think she was so beaten down from years of abuse that she just didn't have it in her to fight.

Her ex then moved her son out of the country, and tried very hard to obstruct the time they did have together. It was basically impossible to enforce court orders because he was out of the country. It was a sad situation all around.

[Anonymous]

Well, I make under $45k and my ex makes over $120k. We split custody of the kids. They are mostly with my ex during the week but as much as it hurts and I have tremendous pain I'm mostly okay with it because he has more funds for them and a much nicer house. I get sad when I think about the kids in my tiny apartment. I also think that if he ever remarries or meets someone the kids are his priority and are benefiting from him financially as opposed to me just getting a tiny amount of child support from him. FWIW I was a SAHM for 7 years and removed from my career for that time. When I went back to work I was making barely anything.

The situation sucks on so many levels but I think ultimately it is best for the kids.

[Anonymous]

I know of 1 case where the mom lost custody of her children and doesn't even have any visitation any more. She has bipolar and a substance use disorder (alcohol and pills). She has gotten in drunk driving accidents and lost her license. She is no longer able to work and is on disability. At one time she had supervised visitation but lost that when she showed up under the influence. Over the years she has filed many motions to regain custody but has never been successful because its pretty clear she is still ill and unstable. Due to her illness she lacks self-awareness that she is ill and just thinks the system is out to get her and that she is losing because she doesn't have money to keep fighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh good Georgia stepmom is back with her story again. Been a week or so since we trotted out that pony.

Um. I do not live in Georgia.

13:07 is Georgia stepmom

I can't stand her either. The case happened in GA, even though she doesn't live there now. I'm so glad that other posters on DCUM keep calling her out.

Her stepkids are grown and yet she takes every single opportunity to post her story in the Special Concerns Forum when paternal custody issues come up, and the Relationship Forum every time a question about APs comes up. I suspect she's not as stable as she claims. If she were, she would be enjoying the great life that she and her DH have supposedly built. In other threads, she has admitted to dating her husband, supposedly after he was separated, but well before he was divorced. (She usually says something along the lines of "I didn't cause the divorce, but I sure didn't help because I gave him a reason to not try with her anymore..." blah blah blah) In rare moments of self reflection, Georgia Stepmom even expresses regret over the people her affair harmed and how the damage to certain relationships can't be undone. The vitriol with which she speaks of her stepkids' birth mother, all these years later, is really strange and sad. If I had more energy for Georgia Stepmom's bs, I'd copy and paste some of the really vile things she says about her stepkids' mother. She's got grown kids and a DH, yet she's awfully preoccupied with this part of her past.

Hey, Georgia Stepmom, your stepkids are grown and the situation supposedly worked out for the best. If you've got such a great life, why are you DCUM's resident broken record, telling the same story all the time?

[Anonymous]

I'm laughing so hard right now at the character people are calling "Georgia Stepmom." It takes a lot of crazy to become known on an anonymous message board. I didn't read her post in this thread because no one has time for that many paragraphs, but just the length of the post tells me she is nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm laughing so hard right now at the character people are calling "Georgia Stepmom." It takes a lot of crazy to become known on an anonymous message board. I didn't read her post in this thread because no one has time for that many paragraphs, but just the length of the post tells me she is nuts.

Seriously. The woman has posted so many identifying details, I'm surprised no one has tried to find her (bobcat girl style).