Chinese "immersion" outside of school hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uh, the best Chinese speaking kids in the city are growing up in Chinese-speaking immigrant, guest worker and diplomatic families.

What I see happening at YY is that once the current principal moves on, a new hire who is fluent in Mandarin will make many changes. The changes will include more emphasis on kids learning to understand and speak everyday Chinese, and less emphasis on writing and grammar. The new head will work to draw in more native speaking families. As a result more will come and dialect transition support will creep in. I see this happening in 5-10 years.

None of whom are competing with YY kids. The vast majority of immigrants and guest workers only work in DC and actually live in the suburbs. Isn't that what the whole "there are no authentic Chinese-speaking kids!" bitch is about? They don't live in DC, but you can find them in the suburbs. Go there if that is what you want.) The diplomatic families are few, and only attend private schools, anyway.

In other words, your points - lame as they are - are moot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

India cannot be compared... the country already has a relatively high English fluency, including having their own dialect. Some families actually speak English in the home. Similar statements can be said about many European countries... having more exposure to English and closer language families.

Japan and South Korea are actually perfect examples. And have you heard their typical English speakers? They are not so good. Their reading is much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

Someone who learns via one-way immersion, is at a disadvantage to someone who learned the target language via two-way immersion; all other things being equal. I'm not saying they won't learn anything via one-way...just not as well.

So what? When you converse with a colleague who grew up in India (or Japan or China or South Korea or Germany etc. etc. etc.) and speaks English, do you ask him (or her) by what instructional method he (or she) learned English?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

India cannot be compared... the country already has a relatively high English fluency, including having their own dialect. Some families actually speak English in the home. Similar statements can be said about many European countries... having more exposure to English and closer language families.

Japan and South Korea are actually perfect examples. And have you heard their typical English speakers? They are not so good. Their reading is much better.

Yes, it can. Even for the very highest caste Indians (Brahmins) English is still a second language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

Someone who learns via one-way immersion, is at a disadvantage to someone who learned the target language via two-way immersion; all other things being equal. I'm not saying they won't learn anything via one-way...just not as well.

Obviously, yes.

Having many native-speaking families involved in a program also helps ensure that non-native speakers invest in peer relationships with bilingual classmates and cultural studies complementing language study. The positive externalities associated with a cohort of native speakers in an immersion program help sustain serious interest in learning the language through the teen years on the part of students whose families don't speak the target language. Good studies on the subject have been done looking at Spanish and French immersion programs around the US and Canada.

The native Chinese speakers in this Metro area aren't all Cantonese speakers, not by a long shot. Many speak other dialects, Hakka, Min (Taiwanese Hokkien), Fujian, Toisanese, Shang'haiese etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

India cannot be compared... the country already has a relatively high English fluency, including having their own dialect. Some families actually speak English in the home. Similar statements can be said about many European countries... having more exposure to English and closer language families.

Japan and South Korea are actually perfect examples. And have you heard their typical English speakers? They are not so good. Their reading is much better.

I heard them in grad school. In engineering and finance they will kick your ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh, the best Chinese speaking kids in the city are growing up in Chinese-speaking immigrant, guest worker and diplomatic families.

What I see happening at YY is that once the current principal moves on, a new hire who is fluent in Mandarin will make many changes. The changes will include more emphasis on kids learning to understand and speak everyday Chinese, and less emphasis on writing and grammar. The new head will work to draw in more native speaking families. As a result more will come and dialect transition support will creep in. I see this happening in 5-10 years.

None of whom are competing with YY kids. The vast majority of immigrants and guest workers only work in DC and actually live in the suburbs. Isn't that what the whole "there are no authentic Chinese-speaking kids!" bitch is about? They don't live in DC, but you can find them in the suburbs. Go there if that is what you want.) The diplomatic families are few, and only attend private schools, anyway.

In other words, your points - lame as they are - are moot.

Problem is, they will be likely wind up competing with YY kids in applying to college, and life beyond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

Someone who learns via one-way immersion, is at a disadvantage to someone who learned the target language via two-way immersion; all other things being equal. I'm not saying they won't learn anything via one-way...just not as well.

Obviously, yes.

Having many native-speaking families involved in a program also helps ensure that non-native speakers invest in peer relationships with bilingual classmates and cultural studies complementing language study. The positive externalities associated with a cohort of native speakers in an immersion program help sustain serious interest in learning the language through the teen years on the part of students whose families don't speak the target language. Good studies on the subject have been done looking at Spanish and French immersion programs around the US and Canada.

The native Chinese speakers in this Metro area aren't all Cantonese speakers, not by a long shot. Many speak other dialects, Hakka, Min (Taiwanese Hokkien), Fujian, Toisanese, Shang'haiese etc.

But, what the heritage speakers seem to want to ignore is that all other things are not equal, so quit being such crybabies. Dual immersion isn't an option. Fortunately, one-way instruction (instruction! much less immersion!) not only works, but it works really, really, really well - as millions of people around the globe can attest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh, the best Chinese speaking kids in the city are growing up in Chinese-speaking immigrant, guest worker and diplomatic families.

What I see happening at YY is that once the current principal moves on, a new hire who is fluent in Mandarin will make many changes. The changes will include more emphasis on kids learning to understand and speak everyday Chinese, and less emphasis on writing and grammar. The new head will work to draw in more native speaking families. As a result more will come and dialect transition support will creep in. I see this happening in 5-10 years.

None of whom are competing with YY kids. The vast majority of immigrants and guest workers only work in DC and actually live in the suburbs. Isn't that what the whole "there are no authentic Chinese-speaking kids!" bitch is about? They don't live in DC, but you can find them in the suburbs. Go there if that is what you want.) The diplomatic families are few, and only attend private schools, anyway.

In other words, your points - lame as they are - are moot.

Problem is, they will be likely wind up competing with YY kids in applying to college, and life beyond.

No, likely not. These are very different social strata and spheres.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh, the best Chinese speaking kids in the city are growing up in Chinese-speaking immigrant, guest worker and diplomatic families.

What I see happening at YY is that once the current principal moves on, a new hire who is fluent in Mandarin will make many changes. The changes will include more emphasis on kids learning to understand and speak everyday Chinese, and less emphasis on writing and grammar. The new head will work to draw in more native speaking families. As a result more will come and dialect transition support will creep in. I see this happening in 5-10 years.

None of whom are competing with YY kids. The vast majority of immigrants and guest workers only work in DC and actually live in the suburbs. Isn't that what the whole "there are no authentic Chinese-speaking kids!" bitch is about? They don't live in DC, but you can find them in the suburbs. Go there if that is what you want.) The diplomatic families are few, and only attend private schools, anyway.

In other words, your points - lame as they are - are moot.

Problem is, they will be likely wind up competing with YY kids in applying to college, and life beyond.

No, likely not. These are very different social strata and spheres.

I don't see YY students enrolling at either Northern Virginia Community College or the University of Beijing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

India cannot be compared... the country already has a relatively high English fluency, including having their own dialect. Some families actually speak English in the home. Similar statements can be said about many European countries... having more exposure to English and closer language families.

Japan and South Korea are actually perfect examples. And have you heard their typical English speakers? They are not so good. Their reading is much better.

I heard them in grad school. In engineering and finance they will kick your ass.

Engineering? Yes. Finance...not so much. STEM fields value those with a strong quantitative background. However, those with poor English speaking skills will have a hard time advancing in other fields, including finance, which does not only value math skills. Have you ever wondered why (otherwise smart) people with poor English skills don't dominate in American law, politics, finance (Wall Street), etc. They're definitely not kicking anyone's ass in those fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

India cannot be compared... the country already has a relatively high English fluency, including having their own dialect. Some families actually speak English in the home. Similar statements can be said about many European countries... having more exposure to English and closer language families.

Japan and South Korea are actually perfect examples. And have you heard their typical English speakers? They are not so good. Their reading is much better.

I heard them in grad school. In engineering and finance they will kick your ass.

Engineering? Yes. Finance...not so much. STEM fields value those with a strong quantitative background. However, those with poor English speaking skills will have a hard time advancing in other fields, including finance, which does not only value math skills. Have you ever wondered why (otherwise smart) people with poor English skills don't dominate in American law, politics, finance (Wall Street), etc. They're definitely not kicking anyone's ass in those fields.

You've obviously never heard of Singapore. They have a successful financial industry there. You should look it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

India cannot be compared... the country already has a relatively high English fluency, including having their own dialect. Some families actually speak English in the home. Similar statements can be said about many European countries... having more exposure to English and closer language families.

Japan and South Korea are actually perfect examples. And have you heard their typical English speakers? They are not so good. Their reading is much better.

I heard them in grad school. In engineering and finance they will kick your ass.

Engineering? Yes. Finance...not so much. STEM fields value those with a strong quantitative background. However, those with poor English speaking skills will have a hard time advancing in other fields, including finance, which does not only value math skills. Have you ever wondered why (otherwise smart) people with poor English skills don't dominate in American law, politics, finance (Wall Street), etc. They're definitely not kicking anyone's ass in those fields.

That's lame. Other than Arnold Schwarzeneger, why would anyone come to the U.S. and expect to dominate in the field of politics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

India cannot be compared... the country already has a relatively high English fluency, including having their own dialect. Some families actually speak English in the home. Similar statements can be said about many European countries... having more exposure to English and closer language families.

Japan and South Korea are actually perfect examples. And have you heard their typical English speakers? They are not so good. Their reading is much better.

I heard them in grad school. In engineering and finance they will kick your ass.

Engineering? Yes. Finance...not so much. STEM fields value those with a strong quantitative background. However, those with poor English speaking skills will have a hard time advancing in other fields, including finance, which does not only value math skills. Have you ever wondered why (otherwise smart) people with poor English skills don't dominate in American law, politics, finance (Wall Street), etc. They're definitely not kicking anyone's ass in those fields.

You've obviously never heard of Singapore. They have a successful financial industry there. You should look it up.

I hear Hong Kong is good for banking. What languages might be useful there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India, students learn English via one-way. In Japan, students learn English via one-way. In South Korea, students learn English via one-way. In Finland, students learn English via one-way. In Germany, students learn English via one-way. In the Czech Republic, students learn English via one-way. All over Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa, students learn English via one-way instruction. And millions of it learn it very well. Some of them learn it well enough to take your job.

Obviously. Obviously language can be very successfully learned via one-way instruction.

The YY kids are fortunate that they're being taught by native speakers, which is an advantage that most language-learners don't have. But if you think it's necessary to recruit Cantonese kids to Yu Ying in order for language instruction to be successful, then you're willfully delusional and you overvalue your snowflake's potential benefit to the class. The school and the students will continue to thrive and be well educated without the Cantonese snowflakes.

India cannot be compared... the country already has a relatively high English fluency, including having their own dialect. Some families actually speak English in the home. Similar statements can be said about many European countries... having more exposure to English and closer language families.

Japan and South Korea are actually perfect examples. And have you heard their typical English speakers? They are not so good. Their reading is much better.

I heard them in grad school. In engineering and finance they will kick your ass.

Engineering? Yes. Finance...not so much. STEM fields value those with a strong quantitative background. However, those with poor English speaking skills will have a hard time advancing in other fields, including finance, which does not only value math skills. Have you ever wondered why (otherwise smart) people with poor English skills don't dominate in American law, politics, finance (Wall Street), etc. They're definitely not kicking anyone's ass in those fields.

You've obviously never heard of Singapore. They have a successful financial industry there. You should look it up.

So do you want your YY-educated child to live in Singapore? I like my children, so I want them to live at least within a few hours drive from me when they are grown. To each his own.