Chinese "immersion" outside of school hours

[Anonymous]

The Yu Ying 5th graders I've spoken to in Chinese (most recently at a neighborhood birthday party) don't sound to me like they've studied immersion Mandarin for more than six years. More like around six months!

So, yes, sorry to say, I'm critical. Maybe others speak fluently and these kids aren't a representative sample.

[Anonymous]

Why do pps waste time on these dead-ended Chinese immersion threads? OP could find "immersion" outside of school hours easily enough if he or she was willing and able to pay up. It's as simple as that.

Hardly anybody at YY/DCI wants language immersion on a par with Oyster. Parents mainly want to escape in-boundary schools full of poor kids. Some also want to believe that their kids are gaining fluency in Mandarin at YY without supplementing relentlessly. Parents want to slam ethnic Chinese who point out, quite rightly, that failing to make a point of including native speakers, particularly the low SES DC variant, is bad educational policy. The policy could, and should, be changed but won't for many years.

When we were at YY, we raised these issues at PA meetings, with admins, and at Charter Board round tables on immersion language programs various times. Nobody we talked to seemed serious about change because the school was set up as a one-way immersion program and parents (mostly black with no real connection to China, Chinese immigrants, or Chinese culture) bought wholeheartedly into a deeply flawed model from the get go. The model had been pitched to them by clever salesmen.

If you're a native speaker of Chinese, you get it; if you aren't, you probably don't and never will. You love YY because you found what you were looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do pps waste time on these dead-ended Chinese immersion threads? OP could find "immersion" outside of school hours easily enough if he or she was willing and able to pay up. It's as simple as that.

Hardly anybody at YY/DCI wants language immersion on a par with Oyster. Parents mainly want to escape in-boundary schools full of poor kids. Some also want to believe that their kids are gaining fluency in Mandarin at YY without supplementing relentlessly. Parents want to slam ethnic Chinese who point out, quite rightly, that failing to make a point of including native speakers, particularly the low SES DC variant, is bad educational policy. The policy could, and should, be changed but won't for many years.

When we were at YY, we raised these issues at PA meetings, with admins, and at Charter Board round tables on immersion language programs various times. Nobody we talked to seemed serious about change because the school was set up as a one-way immersion program and parents (mostly black with no real connection to China, Chinese immigrants, or Chinese culture) bought wholeheartedly into a deeply flawed model from the get go. The model had been pitched to them by clever salesmen.

If you're a native speaker of Chinese, you get it; if you aren't, you probably don't and never will. You love YY because you found what you were looking for.

One could ask you the same question, PP.

Personally, I would be fine with allowing students to test in. That said, the law is the law and if you want it to change then you should be lobbying elsewhere. Just complaining about YY won't help. No matter how critical you want to be, the fact remains that YY students speak and write better Chinese than those of any other school in the city. Hands down. So you're just not going to get a lot of traction trying to get YY parents to change the law on your behalf.

[Anonymous]

Don't students in Japan and Finland and South Korea and India (to name a few) learn English via one-way instruction? They often have accents, yet after many years of study, they speak far better English than those who haven't learned it all.

The fact that you won't confuse an AA child who grew up speaking Mandarin (starting at YY in PK and continuing through HS) with a native-born Chinese national isn't really the ding against the school you seem to imagine it is.

[Anonymous]

Who cares? They can read and write in English, do well on math and can speak a little Chinese. That's fine for public school fifth graders. If they continue on to DCI or private school, they can continue their Chinese studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do pps waste time on these dead-ended Chinese immersion threads? OP could find "immersion" outside of school hours easily enough if he or she was willing and able to pay up. It's as simple as that.

Hardly anybody at YY/DCI wants language immersion on a par with Oyster. Parents mainly want to escape in-boundary schools full of poor kids. Some also want to believe that their kids are gaining fluency in Mandarin at YY without supplementing relentlessly. Parents want to slam ethnic Chinese who point out, quite rightly, that failing to make a point of including native speakers, particularly the low SES DC variant, is bad educational policy. The policy could, and should, be changed but won't for many years.

When we were at YY, we raised these issues at PA meetings, with admins, and at Charter Board round tables on immersion language programs various times. Nobody we talked to seemed serious about change because the school was set up as a one-way immersion program and parents (mostly black with no real connection to China, Chinese immigrants, or Chinese culture) bought wholeheartedly into a deeply flawed model from the get go. The model had been pitched to them by clever salesmen.

If you're a native speaker of Chinese, you get it; if you aren't, you probably don't and never will. You love YY because you found what you were looking for.

One could ask you the same question, PP.

Personally, I would be fine with allowing students to test in. That said, the law is the law and if you want it to change then you should be lobbying elsewhere. Just complaining about YY won't help. No matter how critical you want to be, the fact remains that YY students speak and write better Chinese than those of any other school in the city. Hands down. So you're just not going to get a lot of traction trying to get YY parents to change the law on your behalf.

Lighten up. This is a discussion board, not a public hearing where lobbying is done.

PPs often come to DCUM to point out the limitations of experimental DC public school programs not designed to mature to compete with comparable programs around the region and country, not even close. The city rolls out an endless parade.

Arguing that YY students speak and write Chinese better than those at any other public school in DC is akin to arguing that Banneker's average SAT scores (at or slightly below the national average) are better than those of other all-minority schools in the city. Hands down. Staying mired in relativism is something to cheer about?

As things stand, YY will not get traction in attract native speakers, or graduating many kids who can communicate effectively in the target language. For that matter, in the long-run, DCI won't be able to keep many families who are serious about IB Diploma language studies or elite college admissions. The arrangement may not bother most YY parents, admis or teachers, but these are still wasted opportunities for DC rising, a worthy topic for discussion on or off these boards. No more from me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do pps waste time on these dead-ended Chinese immersion threads? OP could find "immersion" outside of school hours easily enough if he or she was willing and able to pay up. It's as simple as that.

Hardly anybody at YY/DCI wants language immersion on a par with Oyster. Parents mainly want to escape in-boundary schools full of poor kids. Some also want to believe that their kids are gaining fluency in Mandarin at YY without supplementing relentlessly. Parents want to slam ethnic Chinese who point out, quite rightly, that failing to make a point of including native speakers, particularly the low SES DC variant, is bad educational policy. The policy could, and should, be changed but won't for many years.

When we were at YY, we raised these issues at PA meetings, with admins, and at Charter Board round tables on immersion language programs various times. Nobody we talked to seemed serious about change because the school was set up as a one-way immersion program and parents (mostly black with no real connection to China, Chinese immigrants, or Chinese culture) bought wholeheartedly into a deeply flawed model from the get go. The model had been pitched to them by clever salesmen.

If you're a native speaker of Chinese, you get it; if you aren't, you probably don't and never will. You love YY because you found what you were looking for.

One could ask you the same question, PP.

Personally, I would be fine with allowing students to test in. That said, the law is the law and if you want it to change then you should be lobbying elsewhere. Just complaining about YY won't help. No matter how critical you want to be, the fact remains that YY students speak and write better Chinese than those of any other school in the city. Hands down. So you're just not going to get a lot of traction trying to get YY parents to change the law on your behalf.

Lighten up. This is a discussion board, not a public hearing where lobbying is done.

PPs often come to DCUM to point out the limitations of experimental DC public school programs not designed to mature to compete with comparable programs around the region and country, not even close. The city rolls out an endless parade.

Arguing that YY students speak and write Chinese better than those at any other public school in DC is akin to arguing that Banneker's average SAT scores (at or slightly below the national average) are better than those of other all-minority schools in the city. Hands down. Staying mired in relativism is something to cheer about?

As things stand, YY will not get traction in attract native speakers, or graduating many kids who can communicate effectively in the target language. For that matter, in the long-run, DCI won't be able to keep many families who are serious about IB Diploma language studies or elite college admissions. The arrangement may not bother most YY parents, admis or teachers, but these are still wasted opportunities for DC rising, a worthy topic for discussion on or off these boards. No more from me.

I do wish I had your crystal ball. It's so great that you can tell the future of DCI and all of its college admissions, ever, even though it's oldest students are only in ninth grade and there are two other tracks in addition to Chinese. And that it all could be miraculously fixed if YY would drop all of its other priorities and fight tooth and nail to get the tiny number of elementary aged native Cantonese speakers who live in DC to attend. Hire new administrators! Get Congress to change DC charter laws! Develop special curricula to support Cantonese speakers to transition to Mandarin! It's all so simple, why don't you idiots just listen to me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do pps waste time on these dead-ended Chinese immersion threads? OP could find "immersion" outside of school hours easily enough if he or she was willing and able to pay up. It's as simple as that.

Hardly anybody at YY/DCI wants language immersion on a par with Oyster. Parents mainly want to escape in-boundary schools full of poor kids. Some also want to believe that their kids are gaining fluency in Mandarin at YY without supplementing relentlessly. Parents want to slam ethnic Chinese who point out, quite rightly, that failing to make a point of including native speakers, particularly the low SES DC variant, is bad educational policy. The policy could, and should, be changed but won't for many years.

When we were at YY, we raised these issues at PA meetings, with admins, and at Charter Board round tables on immersion language programs various times. Nobody we talked to seemed serious about change because the school was set up as a one-way immersion program and parents (mostly black with no real connection to China, Chinese immigrants, or Chinese culture) bought wholeheartedly into a deeply flawed model from the get go. The model had been pitched to them by clever salesmen.

If you're a native speaker of Chinese, you get it; if you aren't, you probably don't and never will. You love YY because you found what you were looking for.

One could ask you the same question, PP.

Personally, I would be fine with allowing students to test in. That said, the law is the law and if you want it to change then you should be lobbying elsewhere. Just complaining about YY won't help. No matter how critical you want to be, the fact remains that YY students speak and write better Chinese than those of any other school in the city. Hands down. So you're just not going to get a lot of traction trying to get YY parents to change the law on your behalf.

Lighten up. This is a discussion board, not a public hearing where lobbying is done.

PPs often come to DCUM to point out the limitations of experimental DC public school programs not designed to mature to compete with comparable programs around the region and country, not even close. The city rolls out an endless parade.

Arguing that YY students speak and write Chinese better than those at any other public school in DC is akin to arguing that Banneker's average SAT scores (at or slightly below the national average) are better than those of other all-minority schools in the city. Hands down. Staying mired in relativism is something to cheer about?

As things stand, YY will not get traction in attract native speakers, or graduating many kids who can communicate effectively in the target language. For that matter, in the long-run, DCI won't be able to keep many families who are serious about IB Diploma language studies or elite college admissions. The arrangement may not bother most YY parents, admis or teachers, but these are still wasted opportunities for DC rising, a worthy topic for discussion on or off these boards. No more from me.

I know for a fact that is untrue. Your doomsaying is akin to witch screaming a curse - meaningless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do pps waste time on these dead-ended Chinese immersion threads? OP could find "immersion" outside of school hours easily enough if he or she was willing and able to pay up. It's as simple as that.

Hardly anybody at YY/DCI wants language immersion on a par with Oyster. Parents mainly want to escape in-boundary schools full of poor kids. Some also want to believe that their kids are gaining fluency in Mandarin at YY without supplementing relentlessly. Parents want to slam ethnic Chinese who point out, quite rightly, that failing to make a point of including native speakers, particularly the low SES DC variant, is bad educational policy. The policy could, and should, be changed but won't for many years.

When we were at YY, we raised these issues at PA meetings, with admins, and at Charter Board round tables on immersion language programs various times. Nobody we talked to seemed serious about change because the school was set up as a one-way immersion program and parents (mostly black with no real connection to China, Chinese immigrants, or Chinese culture) bought wholeheartedly into a deeply flawed model from the get go. The model had been pitched to them by clever salesmen.

If you're a native speaker of Chinese, you get it; if you aren't, you probably don't and never will. You love YY because you found what you were looking for.

One could ask you the same question, PP.

Personally, I would be fine with allowing students to test in. That said, the law is the law and if you want it to change then you should be lobbying elsewhere. Just complaining about YY won't help. No matter how critical you want to be, the fact remains that YY students speak and write better Chinese than those of any other school in the city. Hands down. So you're just not going to get a lot of traction trying to get YY parents to change the law on your behalf.

Lighten up. This is a discussion board, not a public hearing where lobbying is done.

PPs often come to DCUM to point out the limitations of experimental DC public school programs not designed to mature to compete with comparable programs around the region and country, not even close. The city rolls out an endless parade.

Arguing that YY students speak and write Chinese better than those at any other public school in DC is akin to arguing that Banneker's average SAT scores (at or slightly below the national average) are better than those of other all-minority schools in the city. Hands down. Staying mired in relativism is something to cheer about?

As things stand, YY will not get traction in attract native speakers, or graduating many kids who can communicate effectively in the target language. For that matter, in the long-run, DCI won't be able to keep many families who are serious about IB Diploma language studies or elite college admissions. The arrangement may not bother most YY parents, admis or teachers, but these are still wasted opportunities for DC rising, a worthy topic for discussion on or off these boards. No more from me.

I do wish I had your crystal ball. It's so great that you can tell the future of DCI and all of its college admissions, ever, even though it's oldest students are only in ninth grade and there are two other tracks in addition to Chinese. And that it all could be miraculously fixed if YY would drop all of its other priorities and fight tooth and nail to get the tiny number of elementary aged native Cantonese speakers who live in DC to attend. Hire new administrators! Get Congress to change DC charter laws! Develop special curricula to support Cantonese speakers to transition to Mandarin! It's all so simple, why don't you idiots just listen to me!

+ 1000. And have lots of native speaker students despite the minimal population in DC compared to MoCo!

Fine ideas. But not easy to implement. At all.

[Anonymous]

So glad we chose Oyster and have stayed for jr. high. We're planning to move to MoCo next year, hoping to crack Richard Montgomery IBDP (probably the strongest pu;lic IBDP in the US).

Sorry folks, you can't do language immersion well wi/out native speakers in class (unless you have them at home). And you can't blow IB Diploma exams out of the water wthout doing language immersion right. higher level IB exams are a whole lot harder than AP on DCUM. This mirrors my own experience as a teenager in suburban NJ. I remember being stunned when I got a 4 of 7 on IBD Spanish at my private school after scoring 5 on AP Spanish. I expect my kids to beat me "hands down" as the objecting poster likes to say. Call me a witch, too. Problem is, I'm right babe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So glad we chose Oyster and have stayed for jr. high. We're planning to move to MoCo next year, hoping to crack Richard Montgomery IBDP (probably the strongest pu;lic IBDP in the US).

Sorry folks, you can't do language immersion well wi/out native speakers in class (unless you have them at home). And you can't blow IB Diploma exams out of the water wthout doing language immersion right. higher level IB exams are a whole lot harder than AP on DCUM. This mirrors my own experience as a teenager in suburban NJ. I remember being stunned when I got a 4 of 7 on IBD Spanish at my private school after scoring 5 on AP Spanish. I expect my kids to beat me "hands down" as the objecting poster likes to say. Call me a witch, too. Problem is, I'm right babe.

We all are very happy for you and your child. Our loss is MoCo's gain. Adios.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So glad we chose Oyster and have stayed for jr. high. We're planning to move to MoCo next year, hoping to crack Richard Montgomery IBDP (probably the strongest pu;lic IBDP in the US).

Sorry folks, you can't do language immersion well wi/out native speakers in class (unless you have them at home). And you can't blow IB Diploma exams out of the water wthout doing language immersion right. higher level IB exams are a whole lot harder than AP on DCUM. This mirrors my own experience as a teenager in suburban NJ. I remember being stunned when I got a 4 of 7 on IBD Spanish at my private school after scoring 5 on AP Spanish. I expect my kids to beat me "hands down" as the objecting poster likes to say. Call me a witch, too. Problem is, I'm right babe.

Just curious - which middle school will you transfer to for 8th since your child must reside in MoCo by October of 8th grade to begin the RMIB application process? http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/schools/rmhs/ib/RichMontgomery%20HS%20Magnet_Web%20brochure%202016.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So glad we chose Oyster and have stayed for jr. high. We're planning to move to MoCo next year, hoping to crack Richard Montgomery IBDP (probably the strongest pu;lic IBDP in the US).

Sorry folks, you can't do language immersion well wi/out native speakers in class (unless you have them at home). And you can't blow IB Diploma exams out of the water wthout doing language immersion right. higher level IB exams are a whole lot harder than AP on DCUM. This mirrors my own experience as a teenager in suburban NJ. I remember being stunned when I got a 4 of 7 on IBD Spanish at my private school after scoring 5 on AP Spanish. I expect my kids to beat me "hands down" as the objecting poster likes to say. Call me a witch, too. Problem is, I'm right babe.

That's so funny! So, all those Indian, Japanese, Korean, and Finnish students who learn English one-way and then blow us out of the water on international exams aren't speaking English after all?

See, I never would have known that. I could have sworn they were in our top universities and kicking our asses. Maybe they were just avoiding the university of suburban NJ where you went to school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So glad we chose Oyster and have stayed for jr. high. We're planning to move to MoCo next year, hoping to crack Richard Montgomery IBDP (probably the strongest pu;lic IBDP in the US).

Sorry folks, you can't do language immersion well wi/out native speakers in class (unless you have them at home). And you can't blow IB Diploma exams out of the water wthout doing language immersion right. higher level IB exams are a whole lot harder than AP on DCUM. This mirrors my own experience as a teenager in suburban NJ. I remember being stunned when I got a 4 of 7 on IBD Spanish at my private school after scoring 5 on AP Spanish. I expect my kids to beat me "hands down" as the objecting poster likes to say. Call me a witch, too. Problem is, I'm right babe.

We all are very happy for you and your child. Our loss is MoCo's gain. Adios.

Fingers crossed that this obnoxious Oyster poster will stop posting repeatedly how we are all jealous and dying to send our kids there when she's at whatever school in Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So glad we chose Oyster and have stayed for jr. high. We're planning to move to MoCo next year, hoping to crack Richard Montgomery IBDP (probably the strongest pu;lic IBDP in the US).

Sorry folks, you can't do language immersion well wi/out native speakers in class (unless you have them at home). And you can't blow IB Diploma exams out of the water wthout doing language immersion right. higher level IB exams are a whole lot harder than AP on DCUM. This mirrors my own experience as a teenager in suburban NJ. I remember being stunned when I got a 4 of 7 on IBD Spanish at my private school after scoring 5 on AP Spanish. I expect my kids to beat me "hands down" as the objecting poster likes to say. Call me a witch, too. Problem is, I'm right babe.

You can't? Then why are the Germans and Czechs so good at English? Sometimes they're more grammatically correct than many Americans. And, it's not as if Americans are invading Central Europe to teach English.

Gee! What if you CAN teach a target language, given enough dedication, time, and resources? The evidence says yes, but there's a bitter heritage dad on the intertubes, so maybe we should be skeptical.