White working class acting against their own interests?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great question and has perplexed me forever. Why would anyone who is middle class or poor and in danger of losing a job or health care vote for the Trump. A rich guy who has gotten there on the backs of these very people, who will never think about them and only themselves. It is like they believe if they just get a guy in office that looks like them they will be just fine. Someone explain how people consistently vote against their own pay checks and families. Is it fear? Is it hatred? Who does this?

It’s quite simple, really.
Many of us in the middle class realize that the more “power” we give to the government in taking care of us, the more freedoms we lose as a result.
Like the ACA - we essentially handed over the power to the government to mandate health insurance for all, and in turn, gave up our freedom to choose what plan suits us and our families. Don’t need birth control? Too bad, you’ve got it. And, you don’t have young kids who need dental coverage? So sorry, pal, you get it anyway.
So, simply put, we value freedom more than we value “free things.”

Just curious -- what health insurance *doesn't* provide coverage for things you don't need?

I find most critics of the ACA are actually criticizing all insurance -- they just don't seem to understand how insurance works.

Also why we need a single-payer system.

There are aspects of a single payer system that I like but as someone with a great deal of experience in this field it is not a panacea.

I dunno. Cut costs in half while people live just as long if not longer. That's about as close to "panacea" as you are going to get.

There is no substance in your response. Cut costs in half? Have you looked at the costs of Medicaid and Medicare?

As for living longer. Won't help. One of the main reasons we have a lower life expectancy in the U.S. compared to nations like Japan and Canada is obesity (over 1/3rd now) and that is a huge strain health care costs.

Right, the fair comparison is against the cost of senior citizens healthcare.

I'm going out on a limb that you can read a graph, but WTH I'll give it a shot:

[Anonymous]

We need to figure out a cost structure so that people know what they are going to pay from office to office. Personal example - blood tests cost me $10 at labcorp and almost $500 at a hospital lab. After calling the insurance company to try to confirm that costs were not different. Apparently, I didn't ask the question the right way?

Oh, and under the same damn insurance company (but a name change for my husband's company), my daughter's generic ADHD meds went from costing $5 to $50 per month. The brand name, which makes her sick to her stomach, now is cheaper than the generic.

Fucking insurance companies.

And if you think our current system isn't limiting what type of care we receive, you're nuts.

Insurance companies are the reason your costs have gone up, not ACA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Explain this to me: If you are being left behind by globalization and not doing well financial, wouldn't you want an expansion of overtime pay? Wouldn't you want the Affordable Care Act in case you lose your job or don't have benefits at your job? Wouldn't you support the initiative to make college affordable so that your children will not experience what you did? Wouldn't you want the tax code to ask more of the rich so that you, the poor, can enjoy greater benefits? Why are the "poor, white working class" folks supporting politicians (like Trump) who publicly spouse policies that will not benefit you?

The white working class thinks racism is a valid political platform. They will continue to vote against their own interests as long as they imagine they are screwing racial minorities, especially black people. They are paying the price with lowered life expectation, higher suicide rates, high rates of drug abuse, and other effects. It serves them right.

[Anonymous]

The white working class thinks racism is a valid political platform. They will continue to vote against their own interests as long as they imagine they are screwing racial minorities, especially black people. They are paying the price with lowered life expectation, higher suicide rates, high rates of drug abuse, and other effects. It serves them right.

Who's the racist here? Wow, just wow.

[Anonymous]

I have inlaws on SSDI fwho are against what they disparage as "Obamacare" and anything else having to do with government (although they are on Medicare). Years ago I attended a focus group where the lowest-earning guy in the group (a shoe-shiner) was in favor of the flat tax.

This seems to prove how vulnerable the poorest, especially those without a college education, are to demagoguery.

The Republican Party has really honed its demagoguery skills over the past few decades, and Trump has taken demagoguery to a whole new level.

Meanwhile, the income gap continues to widen. So does the gap in mortality. Has anybody quoted Chetty yet? (I don't have time to read the whole thread.) The richest 1% now live 14.6 years (men) or 10 years (women) longer than the poorest 1%. White women in the lowest income quintile have actually seen their mortality *decline* by 2-3 years, thanks to things like smoking and maybe obesity (see Chetty et al.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great question and has perplexed me forever. Why would anyone who is middle class or poor and in danger of losing a job or health care vote for the Trump. A rich guy who has gotten there on the backs of these very people, who will never think about them and only themselves. It is like they believe if they just get a guy in office that looks like them they will be just fine. Someone explain how people consistently vote against their own pay checks and families. Is it fear? Is it hatred? Who does this?

It’s quite simple, really.
Many of us in the middle class realize that the more “power” we give to the government in taking care of us, the more freedoms we lose as a result.
Like the ACA - we essentially handed over the power to the government to mandate health insurance for all, and in turn, gave up our freedom to choose what plan suits us and our families. Don’t need birth control? Too bad, you’ve got it. And, you don’t have young kids who need dental coverage? So sorry, pal, you get it anyway.
So, simply put, we value freedom more than we value “free things.”

+1

The ACA made you leave your current health insurance plan? Please explain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great question and has perplexed me forever. Why would anyone who is middle class or poor and in danger of losing a job or health care vote for the Trump. A rich guy who has gotten there on the backs of these very people, who will never think about them and only themselves. It is like they believe if they just get a guy in office that looks like them they will be just fine. Someone explain how people consistently vote against their own pay checks and families. Is it fear? Is it hatred? Who does this?

It’s quite simple, really.
Many of us in the middle class realize that the more “power” we give to the government in taking care of us, the more freedoms we lose as a result.
Like the ACA - we essentially handed over the power to the government to mandate health insurance for all, and in turn, gave up our freedom to choose what plan suits us and our families. Don’t need birth control? Too bad, you’ve got it. And, you don’t have young kids who need dental coverage? So sorry, pal, you get it anyway.
So, simply put, we value freedom more than we value “free things.”

+1

The ACA made you leave your current health insurance plan? Please explain.

I was enrolled on an employer plan. Because of the ACA, the plan changed to include the mandates required to make plans ACA - compliant. As a result, the cost of my plan went up. I am paying for benefits I don’t want nor need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why were they on welfare? Because they didn't want to work (love democrats) or because there were no jobs (Trump will fix). Get it?

Here you go, folks. Here's the broad-brush, way over-simplified, type of thinking spewed by demagogues like Trump and swallowed whole by posters like this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great question and has perplexed me forever. Why would anyone who is middle class or poor and in danger of losing a job or health care vote for the Trump. A rich guy who has gotten there on the backs of these very people, who will never think about them and only themselves. It is like they believe if they just get a guy in office that looks like them they will be just fine. Someone explain how people consistently vote against their own pay checks and families. Is it fear? Is it hatred? Who does this?

It’s quite simple, really.
Many of us in the middle class realize that the more “power” we give to the government in taking care of us, the more freedoms we lose as a result.
Like the ACA - we essentially handed over the power to the government to mandate health insurance for all, and in turn, gave up our freedom to choose what plan suits us and our families. Don’t need birth control? Too bad, you’ve got it. And, you don’t have young kids who need dental coverage? So sorry, pal, you get it anyway.
So, simply put, we value freedom more than we value “free things.”

Just curious -- what health insurance *doesn't* provide coverage for things you don't need?

I find most critics of the ACA are actually criticizing all insurance -- they just don't seem to understand how insurance works.

Also why we need a single-payer system.

There are aspects of a single payer system that I like but as someone with a great deal of experience in this field it is not a panacea.

I dunno. Cut costs in half while people live just as long if not longer. That's about as close to "panacea" as you are going to get.

There is no substance in your response. Cut costs in half? Have you looked at the costs of Medicaid and Medicare?

As for living longer. Won't help. One of the main reasons we have a lower life expectancy in the U.S. compared to nations like Japan and Canada is obesity (over 1/3rd now) and that is a huge strain health care costs.

Right, the fair comparison is against the cost of senior citizens healthcare.

I'm going out on a limb that you can read a graph, but WTH I'll give it a shot:

The chart is meaningless on it's face and especially as to your point of cutting costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need to figure out a cost structure so that people know what they are going to pay from office to office. Personal example - blood tests cost me $10 at labcorp and almost $500 at a hospital lab. After calling the insurance company to try to confirm that costs were not different. Apparently, I didn't ask the question the right way?

Oh, and under the same damn insurance company (but a name change for my husband's company), my daughter's generic ADHD meds went from costing $5 to $50 per month. The brand name, which makes her sick to her stomach, now is cheaper than the generic.

Fucking insurance companies.

And if you think our current system isn't limiting what type of care we receive, you're nuts.

Insurance companies are the reason your costs have gone up, not ACA.

This is the thing that baffles me about medical costs and insurance. How is the range of prices so insanely wide? And why can my insurance not give me a clue about what will be covered? Nothing I love more than calling for pre-approval for something and have the insurance rep verbally shrug their shoulders. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump and his supporters are correctly identifying the Clintons and Obama (and GWB) as being worse than useless when it comes to fighting for good-paying jobs for blue-collar workers, since they cravenly served Wall Street, big importers, and the forces of globalization. So Trump comes along and actually makes this connection and the OP has the sheer gall to try to spin this story that Hillary is a better choice? What was Hillary saying about the Asia trade deal when she was SOS? Here's a secret: she was pushing for it hard even though it was obviously anti-blue-collar.

+1,000,000

x5 of that. Does anyone really believe that giggly silly Hilly is not going to ram TPP down our throats the minute she us in office?

Yeah, Trump's going to "create jobs" by building a border wall and kicking out the Mexicans so that Americans can have those fantastic jobs picking vegetables or scrubbing pots under the table with no benefits for $4/hour like the Mexicans did.

As for trade agreements, it's been shown over and over again that trade protectionism and isolationism are not job creators nor are they good for economic growth.

and I bet some of the contractors the construction companies hire to build the wall will be illegal immigrants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need to figure out a cost structure so that people know what they are going to pay from office to office. Personal example - blood tests cost me $10 at labcorp and almost $500 at a hospital lab. After calling the insurance company to try to confirm that costs were not different. Apparently, I didn't ask the question the right way?

Oh, and under the same damn insurance company (but a name change for my husband's company), my daughter's generic ADHD meds went from costing $5 to $50 per month. The brand name, which makes her sick to her stomach, now is cheaper than the generic.

Fucking insurance companies.

And if you think our current system isn't limiting what type of care we receive, you're nuts.

Insurance companies are the reason your costs have gone up, not ACA.

Overall...your comments are BS. For one thing...in order for your blood test at LabCorp to have cost you $10 is simple, it's a co-pay. Not the actual cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great question and has perplexed me forever. Why would anyone who is middle class or poor and in danger of losing a job or health care vote for the Trump. A rich guy who has gotten there on the backs of these very people, who will never think about them and only themselves. It is like they believe if they just get a guy in office that looks like them they will be just fine. Someone explain how people consistently vote against their own pay checks and families. Is it fear? Is it hatred? Who does this?

It’s quite simple, really.
Many of us in the middle class realize that the more “power” we give to the government in taking care of us, the more freedoms we lose as a result.
Like the ACA - we essentially handed over the power to the government to mandate health insurance for all, and in turn, gave up our freedom to choose what plan suits us and our families. Don’t need birth control? Too bad, you’ve got it. And, you don’t have young kids who need dental coverage? So sorry, pal, you get it anyway.
So, simply put, we value freedom more than we value “free things.”

+1

The ACA made you leave your current health insurance plan? Please explain.

I was enrolled on an employer plan. Because of the ACA, the plan changed to include the mandates required to make plans ACA - compliant. As a result, the cost of my plan went up. I am paying for benefits I don’t want nor need.

Somebody pointed out above that the ACA doesn't mandate pediatric dental care. Your employer must have chosen it.

Your employer chose a plan--all the features of the plan, not just the ones that you like or dislike-- that benefitted all employees *on average.* Not a plan that mere rely benefit you personally, and all the other employees can go suck eggs. That's how it has always worked. Undoubtedly there were features of your old plan (pregnancy coverage, cancer treatment for sick employees even though you're currently healthy) that you disliked because they benefitted others but didn't help you personally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to figure out a cost structure so that people know what they are going to pay from office to office. Personal example - blood tests cost me $10 at labcorp and almost $500 at a hospital lab. After calling the insurance company to try to confirm that costs were not different. Apparently, I didn't ask the question the right way?

Oh, and under the same damn insurance company (but a name change for my husband's company), my daughter's generic ADHD meds went from costing $5 to $50 per month. The brand name, which makes her sick to her stomach, now is cheaper than the generic.

Fucking insurance companies.

And if you think our current system isn't limiting what type of care we receive, you're nuts.

Insurance companies are the reason your costs have gone up, not ACA.

This is the thing that baffles me about medical costs and insurance. How is the range of prices so insanely wide? And why can my insurance not give me a clue about what will be covered? Nothing I love more than calling for pre-approval for something and have the insurance rep verbally shrug their shoulders. Thank you!

Not to mention, who the hell has time to cost compare every single time something has to be done? That's madness.

And why I am for some version of single payer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to figure out a cost structure so that people know what they are going to pay from office to office. Personal example - blood tests cost me $10 at labcorp and almost $500 at a hospital lab. After calling the insurance company to try to confirm that costs were not different. Apparently, I didn't ask the question the right way?

Oh, and under the same damn insurance company (but a name change for my husband's company), my daughter's generic ADHD meds went from costing $5 to $50 per month. The brand name, which makes her sick to her stomach, now is cheaper than the generic.

Fucking insurance companies.

And if you think our current system isn't limiting what type of care we receive, you're nuts.

Insurance companies are the reason your costs have gone up, not ACA.

Overall...your comments are BS. For one thing...in order for your blood test at LabCorp to have cost you $10 is simple, it's a co-pay. Not the actual cost.

Overall.... PP is right. Whether or not PP's drugs were covered under her plan, insurance companies really do limit your choices and set the prices you pay. Single payer would help fix this.

Congress is completely complicit in supporting the insurance industry over actual patients. Congress actually passed a law saying the government can't negotiate drug prices under Medicare, which means big pharma has Medicare by the throat. That's the pits, IMO.