White working class acting against their own interests?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most middle class folk, with or without degrees, blue collar, white, and grey, all know we will never receive any freebies from any democrat program unless we have HHI at or below poverty. So, our best bet is on a guy who has a greater likelihood of improving job opportunities overall.

But that's not the case. Republicans have consistently failed to deliver on improved job opportunities. They are also the ones who have promoted "trickle down economics" going back to the Reagan era - where nothing ever trickles down - it has meant that wages for the working class have remained stagnant since the 1980s when adjusted for inflation, even as worker productivity and output have consistently gone up, even as corporate profits have consistently gone up. It's all being skimmed off of the top, with the richest people getting richer and not sharing the wealth with those who made it happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain this to me: If you are being left behind by globalization and not doing well financial, wouldn't you want an expansion of overtime pay? Wouldn't you want the Affordable Care Act in case you lose your job or don't have benefits at your job? Wouldn't you support the initiative to make college affordable so that your children will not experience what you did? Wouldn't you want the tax code to ask more of the rich so that you, the poor, can enjoy greater benefits? Why are the "poor, white working class" folks supporting politicians (like Trump) who publicly spouse policies that will not benefit you?

Typical arrogant, elitist socialist/liberal, thinking they know what's in the best interests of those perceived to be beneath them. Perhaps the best interests of the working class is to get government out of their lives.

Uh, yeah, so that they can go back to working 70 hours a week in the mines for slave wages, in unsafe conditions, paid in scrip that is only redeemable at the company store, and when they get killed, the company will just dump the body in front of the family's house, and a couple of days later they come and evict the wife and kids out onto the street. Not to mention the kids will be working in the mines at the age of 8 too. So we can go back to when the Cuyahoga river was so contaminated that it would routinely catch on fire. Or Love Canal. Or the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. If anyone in the working class thinks they need government out of their lives then all that says is that they have very little meaningful understanding of history.

At least they had jobs then. Now there are none thanks to the government's help in drafting NAFTA, allowing illegals by the millions to take American jobs, raising corporate taxes that drove them offshore, etc. Don't need protections from your big bad employer if there is no job to go to.

This is nonsense. Most American Fortune 500s end up paying zero net federal taxes. The federal government actually gets a much lower share of its revenue from federal taxes today than it did 50 years ago. ALL federal taxes are currently the lowest they have been in our lifetimes. As for the "illegals taking American jobs" frankly they are taking the dirty jobs that Americans turned their noses up at - farm labor, kitchen help, construction, landscaping, cleaning bathrooms and hotel rooms, et cetera. But I guess it's easier to sit back and bitch about Mexicans than it is to actually get off your ass and go take that job yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump and his supporters are correctly identifying the Clintons and Obama (and GWB) as being worse than useless when it comes to fighting for good-paying jobs for blue-collar workers, since they cravenly served Wall Street, big importers, and the forces of globalization. So Trump comes along and actually makes this connection and the OP has the sheer gall to try to spin this story that Hillary is a better choice? What was Hillary saying about the Asia trade deal when she was SOS? Here's a secret: she was pushing for it hard even though it was obviously anti-blue-collar.

+1,000,000

x5 of that. Does anyone really believe that giggly silly Hilly is not going to ram TPP down our throats the minute she us in office?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most middle class folk, with or without degrees, blue collar, white, and grey, all know we will never receive any freebies from any democrat program unless we have HHI at or below poverty. So, our best bet is on a guy who has a greater likelihood of improving job opportunities overall.

22 million people just got overtime benefits. Six million young adults can stay in the family health plan until 26. Low cost college loans. Mortgage interest deduction. Defense of social security and Medicare from Paul Ryan and his ilk.

[Anonymous]

12 not 22

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump and his supporters are correctly identifying the Clintons and Obama (and GWB) as being worse than useless when it comes to fighting for good-paying jobs for blue-collar workers, since they cravenly served Wall Street, big importers, and the forces of globalization. So Trump comes along and actually makes this connection and the OP has the sheer gall to try to spin this story that Hillary is a better choice? What was Hillary saying about the Asia trade deal when she was SOS? Here's a secret: she was pushing for it hard even though it was obviously anti-blue-collar.

+1,000,000

x5 of that. Does anyone really believe that giggly silly Hilly is not going to ram TPP down our throats the minute she us in office?

If the last Clinton presidency is any indication she should be fantastic. Money flowed like water then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should just ask.........

“Wouldn’t you want the government to take better care of you so you don’t have to worry about taking care of yourself?"

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump and his supporters are correctly identifying the Clintons and Obama (and GWB) as being worse than useless when it comes to fighting for good-paying jobs for blue-collar workers, since they cravenly served Wall Street, big importers, and the forces of globalization. So Trump comes along and actually makes this connection and the OP has the sheer gall to try to spin this story that Hillary is a better choice? What was Hillary saying about the Asia trade deal when she was SOS? Here's a secret: she was pushing for it hard even though it was obviously anti-blue-collar.

+1,000,000

x5 of that. Does anyone really believe that giggly silly Hilly is not going to ram TPP down our throats the minute she us in office?

Yeah, Trump's going to "create jobs" by building a border wall and kicking out the Mexicans so that Americans can have those fantastic jobs picking vegetables or scrubbing pots under the table with no benefits for $4/hour like the Mexicans did.

As for trade agreements, it's been shown over and over again that trade protectionism and isolationism are not job creators nor are they good for economic growth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trump and his supporters are correctly identifying the Clintons and Obama (and GWB) as being worse than useless when it comes to fighting for good-paying jobs for blue-collar workers, since they cravenly served Wall Street, big importers, and the forces of globalization. So Trump comes along and actually makes this connection and the OP has the sheer gall to try to spin this story that Hillary is a better choice? What was Hillary saying about the Asia trade deal when she was SOS? Here's a secret: she was pushing for it hard even though it was obviously anti-blue-collar.

+1,000,000

x5 of that. Does anyone really believe that giggly silly Hilly is not going to ram TPP down our throats the minute she us in office?

Yeah, Trump's going to "create jobs" by building a border wall and kicking out the Mexicans so that Americans can have those fantastic jobs picking vegetables or scrubbing pots under the table with no benefits for $4/hour like the Mexicans did.

As for trade agreements, it's been shown over and over again that trade protectionism and isolationism are not job creators nor are they good for economic growth.

Then why did our manufacturing jobs shut down and go to China?
More stock profits for you??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great question and has perplexed me forever. Why would anyone who is middle class or poor and in danger of losing a job or health care vote for the Trump. A rich guy who has gotten there on the backs of these very people, who will never think about them and only themselves. It is like they believe if they just get a guy in office that looks like them they will be just fine. Someone explain how people consistently vote against their own pay checks and families. Is it fear? Is it hatred? Who does this?

It’s quite simple, really.
Many of us in the middle class realize that the more “power” we give to the government in taking care of us, the more freedoms we lose as a result.
Like the ACA - we essentially handed over the power to the government to mandate health insurance for all, and in turn, gave up our freedom to choose what plan suits us and our families. Don’t need birth control? Too bad, you’ve got it. And, you don’t have young kids who need dental coverage? So sorry, pal, you get it anyway.
So, simply put, we value freedom more than we value “free things.”

With the exception of birth control (which is a very minor part of the cost) that doesn't match the reality of how ACA works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great question and has perplexed me forever. Why would anyone who is middle class or poor and in danger of losing a job or health care vote for the Trump. A rich guy who has gotten there on the backs of these very people, who will never think about them and only themselves. It is like they believe if they just get a guy in office that looks like them they will be just fine. Someone explain how people consistently vote against their own pay checks and families. Is it fear? Is it hatred? Who does this?

It’s quite simple, really.
Many of us in the middle class realize that the more “power” we give to the government in taking care of us, the more freedoms we lose as a result.
Like the ACA - we essentially handed over the power to the government to mandate health insurance for all, and in turn, gave up our freedom to choose what plan suits us and our families. Don’t need birth control? Too bad, you’ve got it. And, you don’t have young kids who need dental coverage? So sorry, pal, you get it anyway.
So, simply put, we value freedom more than we value “free things.”

Just curious -- what health insurance *doesn't* provide coverage for things you don't need?

I find most critics of the ACA are actually criticizing all insurance -- they just don't seem to understand how insurance works.

Also why we need a single-payer system.

There are aspects of a single payer system that I like but as someone with a great deal of experience in this field it is not a panacea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am visiting my parents and have thus had the chance to listen to several of his conversations with fellow right wingers, and it's funny listening to them rail against a series of things that don't affect them AT ALL (abortion/birth control/sex lives of others, that Christianity isn't treated 100% as the law of the land, guns, even though NO ONE has taken any of their damn toys) and rail against all the trouble "big government" has "caused": loss of jobs, loss of pensions, unfixed roads and neglected infrastructure, etc. None of which, in case anyone misses my sarcasm, is caused by the government. It's such misplaced anger that it would be laugh out loud funny if they weren't so serious.

Wow, you really are one of those people that has a sense of superiority.

As for the unfixed road and neglected infrastructure...how in hell is that not a failure of our government?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great question and has perplexed me forever. Why would anyone who is middle class or poor and in danger of losing a job or health care vote for the Trump. A rich guy who has gotten there on the backs of these very people, who will never think about them and only themselves. It is like they believe if they just get a guy in office that looks like them they will be just fine. Someone explain how people consistently vote against their own pay checks and families. Is it fear? Is it hatred? Who does this?

It’s quite simple, really.
Many of us in the middle class realize that the more “power” we give to the government in taking care of us, the more freedoms we lose as a result.
Like the ACA - we essentially handed over the power to the government to mandate health insurance for all, and in turn, gave up our freedom to choose what plan suits us and our families. Don’t need birth control? Too bad, you’ve got it. And, you don’t have young kids who need dental coverage? So sorry, pal, you get it anyway.
So, simply put, we value freedom more than we value “free things.”

Just curious -- what health insurance *doesn't* provide coverage for things you don't need?

I find most critics of the ACA are actually criticizing all insurance -- they just don't seem to understand how insurance works.

Also why we need a single-payer system.

There are aspects of a single payer system that I like but as someone with a great deal of experience in this field it is not a panacea.

I dunno. Cut costs in half while people live just as long if not longer. That's about as close to "panacea" as you are going to get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think most middle class folk, with or without degrees, blue collar, white, and grey, all know we will never receive any freebies from any democrat program unless we have HHI at or below poverty. So, our best bet is on a guy who has a greater likelihood of improving job opportunities overall.

Not being facetious at all, but genuinely curious: how would Trump improve job opportunities?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great question and has perplexed me forever. Why would anyone who is middle class or poor and in danger of losing a job or health care vote for the Trump. A rich guy who has gotten there on the backs of these very people, who will never think about them and only themselves. It is like they believe if they just get a guy in office that looks like them they will be just fine. Someone explain how people consistently vote against their own pay checks and families. Is it fear? Is it hatred? Who does this?

It’s quite simple, really.
Many of us in the middle class realize that the more “power” we give to the government in taking care of us, the more freedoms we lose as a result.
Like the ACA - we essentially handed over the power to the government to mandate health insurance for all, and in turn, gave up our freedom to choose what plan suits us and our families. Don’t need birth control? Too bad, you’ve got it. And, you don’t have young kids who need dental coverage? So sorry, pal, you get it anyway.
So, simply put, we value freedom more than we value “free things.”

Just curious -- what health insurance *doesn't* provide coverage for things you don't need?

I find most critics of the ACA are actually criticizing all insurance -- they just don't seem to understand how insurance works.

Also why we need a single-payer system.

There are aspects of a single payer system that I like but as someone with a great deal of experience in this field it is not a panacea.

I dunno. Cut costs in half while people live just as long if not longer. That's about as close to "panacea" as you are going to get.

There is no substance in your response. Cut costs in half? Have you looked at the costs of Medicaid and Medicare?

As for living longer. Won't help. One of the main reasons we have a lower life expectancy in the U.S. compared to nations like Japan and Canada is obesity (over 1/3rd now) and that is a huge strain health care costs.