Dumb WaPoo Article on Public Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Number 3 is what we have in DC today, and it's' not really working. DCPS is still very segregated by race and the achievement gap is as wide as ever.

DC is not "segregated." Population demographics are different in different neighborhoods. That's it.

I suppose one could describe demographic disparities based on racial categories, between nearby districts or zones, as "segregated" zones, but that wouldn't mean anything other than people have decided to live in different zones for any number of reasons. Plus, the word "segregation" would not really be an accurate descriptor for the phenomenon under discussion.

#1 reason: Segregation of housing due to a history of gov't and financial institution policy. Don't be pedantic, DC is extremely segregated.

I agree our country has an unfortunate history of discriminating against black folks. However, I think it is safe to say that in DC and all over the rest of the country there are plenty of white folks who are priced out of the better neighborhoods. So are they segregated as well?

I also think today that this economic segregation is not the primary cause of the achievement gap at all especially in DC where there are tons of programs eager to help disadvantaged families. The gap has more to do with not valuing education and the word gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feeling butthurt at being called racist, are you?

.


The article didn't call her a racist, it says that schools are re-segregating. Did you actually read it?

The problem is real, and it doesn't have a simple solution. Nobody wants to see poor children economically isolated. It's also extremely easy for people without children in the system to point fingers and place blame. Unless you've deliberately enrolled your child in a school you know to be sub-standard when A.) you have better options, and B.) you're doing it for the benefit of under-served children in the school to the detriment of your own child, then you're really just riding around on your high-horse's ass.

THIS + 1,000,000

[Anonymous]

LOL DC is totally segregated

Almost all the public schools are 90% plus black except NW of course and capitol hill which is very very white

Tier 1 Charters are majority white
Tier 2 Charters are majority black/hispnaic

And I agree with PP Fairfax County AAP is white/asian flight out of schools that are perfectly fine but not good enough whatever the heck that means

What I would propose and the only thing that actually works is incenitivizing veteran teachers to teach at low performing schools.

This does not mean higher salaries usually it means giving teachers autonomy because veteran teachers can make stuff happen as long as the paper work and administration is kept to a minimum

[Anonymous]

and i'll add there needs to be strong discipline and minimal distractions as well which unfortunately is very hard to get in many DC schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL DC is totally segregated

Almost all the public schools are 90% plus black except NW of course and capitol hill which is very very white

Tier 1 Charters are majority white
Tier 2 Charters are majority black/hispnaic

And I agree with PP Fairfax County AAP is white/asian flight out of schools that are perfectly fine but not good enough whatever the heck that means

What I would propose and the only thing that actually works is incenitivizing veteran teachers to teach at low performing schools.

This does not mean higher salaries usually it means giving teachers autonomy because veteran teachers can make stuff happen as long as the paper work and administration is kept to a minimum

The number of errors is this idiotic post is staggering. What does "Capitol Hill is very very white" mean???????? The overwhelming majority of kids in Capitol Hill public schools are not white. All Tier 1 charters are not a majority white. Facts exist and are more searchable than ever via the internets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Number 3 is what we have in DC today, and it's' not really working. DCPS is still very segregated by race and the achievement gap is as wide as ever.

You will never overcome the achievement gap as long as there are parents who barely speak to their kids let alone read to their kids. Kids who come from these homes come to school with a 30 million word gap by the time they are 3 years old.

It is unrealistic to think that schools will ever be able to completely overcome this gap even if we pour tons of money at it. I am totally in favor of offering preschool to even 2 year olds who come from disadvantage families as well as year round school for these kids.

I think there should be sound reading and math curricula used as well.

The gap is not due to so called segregation that happens due to neighborhoods or to racism IMHO. It is due to the huge word gap.

I work at a daycare/preschool in the inner city. We pour a TON of money into the kids (seriously, our per-pupil spending is ridiculous), year round, age 6 weeks to 5 years old. We provide all kinds of therapeutic services at no cost and have skilled teachers. Do we make a difference? Yes, of course. Do we close the achievement gap? Not even close. Schools can only do so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL DC is totally segregated

Almost all the public schools are 90% plus black except NW of course and capitol hill which is very very white

Tier 1 Charters are majority white
Tier 2 Charters are majority black/hispnaic

And I agree with PP Fairfax County AAP is white/asian flight out of schools that are perfectly fine but not good enough whatever the heck that means

What I would propose and the only thing that actually works is incentivizing veteran teachers to teach at low performing schools.

This does not mean higher salaries usually it means giving teachers autonomy because veteran teachers can make stuff happen as long as the paper work and administration is kept to a minimum

Most Tier 1 charters are not majority white: http://www.dcpcsb.org/charter-board-releases-2014-performance-management-framework-pmf-results

Full list = Tier 1

Achievement Prep Wahler Place Middle
BASIS DC
Center City PCS Brightwood
Center City PCS Shaw
Center City PCS Congress Heights
DC Prep Edgewood
Friendship PCS Chamberlain Middle
Friendship PCS Southeast Elementary
Friendship PCS Woodridge
KIPP DC AIM
KIPP Key
KIPP Promise
KIPP Will
LAMB
Two Rivers
Washington YY
Center City High School
Cesar Chavez Parkside High School
KIPP DC College Prep High School
SEED PCS High School
Thurgood Marshall Academy high school
Washington Latin Upper School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL DC is totally segregated

Almost all the public schools are 90% plus black except NW of course and capitol hill which is very very white

Tier 1 Charters are majority white
Tier 2 Charters are majority black/hispnaic

And I agree with PP Fairfax County AAP is white/asian flight out of schools that are perfectly fine but not good enough whatever the heck that means

What I would propose and the only thing that actually works is incenitivizing veteran teachers to teach at low performing schools.

This does not mean higher salaries usually it means giving teachers autonomy because veteran teachers can make stuff happen as long as the paper work and administration is kept to a minimum

Agreed that DC schools are very segregated, but the details matter and you have them very wrong. First off, you roped all of "NW" into your "very very white" category, when you really meant wards 2 and 3, and that it's really only a couple of Capitol Hill elementary schools which are majority white.

Second, I think there may be one charter school in the city which is actually majority white (Lee?). There are a number of them which have white populations in the 30-40% range, which is certainly more than most schools in the city. Also, your use of "Tier 1" as the indicator of majority white charters is ridiculous- over half of the Tier 1 charters are KIPP and Achievement Prep and similar schools, which are vastly majority black, almost 100%.

But you did nail the issues for veteran teachers being not solely money- autonomy and good support and coaching matter a lot. All that said, it's tough to imagine a veteran teacher who's not already in a school that is low performing jumping to a low performing school because he/she got more autonomy, money and coaching. Those teachers are (mostly, not quite all) avoiding low performing schools because they have made the decision that they don't want to work there because of the difficulties involved. And to an extent, that's an understandable decision from that teacher's position. It just works out badly for society as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:#1 reason: Segregation of housing due to a history of gov't and financial institution policy. Don't be pedantic, DC is extremely segregated.

Yes it's segregated, but that's because of where people choose to live. It's not segregated because the government or institutions control where people are allowed to live. Yes, your income limits our choices about where you can live, but if someone really wants to move to a more diverse neighborhood, most people can arrange for that.

Here are a few recent listings from Craig's List for apartments around $950/month. You could run a similar search for other income levels. No, not everyone will be able to afford this rent, and certainly income limits your options. But the point is that people can choose the sort of community where the want to live and can choose which schools they have access to.

Gallaudet - https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/apa/5595830310.html
Deanwood - https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/apa/5595717791.html
Brightwood - https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/apa/5585732894.html
Dupont - https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/apa/5595261949.html
Palisades - https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/apa/5595275826.html

If you lower your monthly rent to $650, you can still find options in places like College Park, Petworth, Rockville, or Takoma. All of those have very different demographics, so you can pick which you like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL DC is totally segregated

Almost all the public schools are 90% plus black except NW of course and capitol hill which is very very white

Tier 1 Charters are majority white
Tier 2 Charters are majority black/hispnaic

And I agree with PP Fairfax County AAP is white/asian flight out of schools that are perfectly fine but not good enough whatever the heck that means

What I would propose and the only thing that actually works is incenitivizing veteran teachers to teach at low performing schools.

This does not mean higher salaries usually it means giving teachers autonomy because veteran teachers can make stuff happen as long as the paper work and administration is kept to a minimum

Or how about incentivizing families in "non-white" neighborhoods to move to "more white" areas in order to have access to the "more white" schools? The government could cut checks to help pay for differences in housing costs. Would you "anti-segregationist" types jump all over a policy like that? It would be more humane than a "forced busing" policy designed to create the kind of diversity you're concerned about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Second, I think there may be one charter school in the city which is actually majority white (Lee?). There are a number of them which have white populations in the 30-40% range, which is certainly more than most schools in the city. Also, your use of "Tier 1" as the indicator of majority white charters is ridiculous- over half of the Tier 1 charters are KIPP and Achievement Prep and similar schools, which are vastly majority black, almost 100%.

.

Majority white charter schools

Lee = 54% white
Washington Latin middle school = 54.9% white

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can't be "disparate impact" if the citizens are the ones making choices to live in specific neighborhoods that feed into local schools. In the case of DC public schools, there is no government policy that creates the outcome that many on this board don't like. To them, the outcome seems unfair, but that's just the way life is. Throughout human history, btw.

Yup, kids choose to be born to poor parents who can only afford to live in school zones with poor performing schools. Must be nice to live in your little world where every child gets to make that choice.

How facetious. You may be correct that your ideal world would be the most "fair," but don't pretend the law is on your side.

The law has been clear about segregation, whether de jure or de facto:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/education/wp/2016/05/16/judge-orders-mississippi-school-district-to-desegregate-62-years-after-brown-v-board-of-education/?hpid=hp_hp-more-top-stories-2_schools-desegregate-950pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Disparate impact theory has been successfully upheld by the Supreme Court with regard to location of Affordable Housing: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/06/25/417433460/in-fair-housing-act-case-supreme-court-backs-disparate-impact-claims

But keep trying to maintain that where people live and where they are able to send their children to school is in any way a choice, or that separate can ever be equal.

[Anonymous]

Sorry I painted with a bit too broad of a brush but the general statements are all true

and sorry KIPP and Basics are crappy charters the only reason people go there are the neighborhood schools are so bad

There is a reason why whites don't send their kids there lol

It's all here

http://find.myschooldc.org/

Tier 1 Charters actually have decent test scores
Tier 2s don't

It's not rocket science. And to prove I'm not racist its really about SES which is insanely correlated to race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry I painted with a bit too broad of a brush but the general statements are all true

and sorry KIPP and Basics are crappy charters the only reason people go there are the neighborhood schools are so bad

There is a reason why whites don't send their kids there lol

It's all here

http://find.myschooldc.org/

Tier 1 Charters actually have decent test scores
Tier 2s don't

It's not rocket science. And to prove I'm not racist its really about SES which is insanely correlated to race

And there we go, the true you came out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Second, I think there may be one charter school in the city which is actually majority white (Lee?). There are a number of them which have white populations in the 30-40% range, which is certainly more than most schools in the city. Also, your use of "Tier 1" as the indicator of majority white charters is ridiculous- over half of the Tier 1 charters are KIPP and Achievement Prep and similar schools, which are vastly majority black, almost 100%.

.

Majority white charter schools

Lee = 54% white
Washington Latin middle school = 54.9% white

Thanks for the clarification. Accuracy is always helpful.