Dumb WaPoo Article on Public Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I seriously wonder what kind of miserable harpy sits around bashing poor people and questioning other people's school choices. I don't wonder often, or for long, because such a person isn't particularly interesting, but sometimes I do wonder

What gibberish is this? I do wonder ......

[Anonymous]

I don't think anyone's out to "bash poor people" or deny them educational opportunities. I'd bet every person posting here truly wants a better life for all kids, especially those born is difficult circumstances. The problem is that raising the academics of low-SES kids (the "H/PBH" referenced in the report) is just really hard to do. People have spent billions and billions of dollars over several decades, and the progress often feels pretty small. It's frustrating.

That frustration reaches a boiling point though when the school districts adopt the approach of spreading all the H/PBH students around among the better performing schools, in the name of "equity." As the report discusses, those H/PBH students often make it hard for other kids around them to learn, because they are more likely to be disruptive. So spreading them around means that the children who are actually learning will be asked to carry a heavier burden.

Speaking for myself, if I actually had confidence that spreading the H/PBH students around among the better performing schools would spur those H/PBH students to improve, and we could meaningfully shrink the education gap as a result, then I'd be willing to accept that extra burden for my kids. But based on the sad lack of success at other prior efforts, and the fact that these efforts often seem aimed at simply creating a facade of equity so political leaders can claim fake progress, I'm reluctant to support the approach.

I'm sure there's some solution to the difficult problems surrounding income and race effects with students, but there's not likely any easy answer, and it will take a long time an lots of sacrifice. But, again speaking personally, I want the sacrifice I make to mean something, and lead to results. I'm wary of sacrifices that just serve as political window dressing.

[Anonymous]

15:51 again. This is all especially hard in a city like DC, where something like 70-75% of the students in the city fit the definition of "H/PBH." If they are spread out evenly among all schools, then all schools will be majority H/PBH. That seems likely to create a downward spiral for all those schools, without much benefit other than letting some people claim they "promoted equity."

Hard problems like this make for difficult circumstances.

[Anonymous]

15:51 again. This is all especially hard in a city like DC, where something like 70-75% of the students in the city fit the definition of "H/PBH." If they are spread out evenly among all schools, then all schools will be majority H/PBH. That seems likely to create a downward spiral for all those schools, without much benefit other than letting some people claim they "promoted equity.

More than 70% of my grandmother's poor farming community in one of American's breadbaskets were... poor. And, although I'm sure now someone will chime with a lecture about nuclear families and how those were happier, simpler times, they had just as many obstacles to overcome. Just as much abuse, poverty, malnutrition, domestic violence, etc.

And yet, because there was an optimism, a belief that we were making a better future, most of them went to land grand universities, got jobs, and made a better life for their klids.

Please, stop blaming the people caught in this mess instead of blaming the system that bilks them at every term. Trust me, every parent wants a good education for their kids. Every parent wants the same things you do. And you are just as likely to have your kids catch cooties from the family that jetted in from Zurich as the ones from Deanwood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

15:51 again. This is all especially hard in a city like DC, where something like 70-75% of the students in the city fit the definition of "H/PBH." If they are spread out evenly among all schools, then all schools will be majority H/PBH. That seems likely to create a downward spiral for all those schools, without much benefit other than letting some people claim they "promoted equity.

More than 70% of my grandmother's poor farming community in one of American's breadbaskets were... poor. And, although I'm sure now someone will chime with a lecture about nuclear families and how those were happier, simpler times, they had just as many obstacles to overcome. Just as much abuse, poverty, malnutrition, domestic violence, etc.

And yet, because there was an optimism, a belief that we were making a better future, most of them went to land grand universities, got jobs, and made a better life for their klids.

Please, stop blaming the people caught in this mess instead of blaming the system that bilks them at every term. Trust me, every parent wants a good education for their kids. Every parent wants the same things you do. And you are just as likely to have your kids catch cooties from the family that jetted in from Zurich as the ones from Deanwood.

I'm sure you'd love to chalk all opposition up to simple racism, but that doesn't wash. DC's a highly integrated place, and there's probably no middle or high school in the entire city that's not already majority black+Hispanic. No one's afraid the black people. But what people don't want is to sacrifice any opportunity at a quality school situation in service of some politician's campaign slogan of "equity for all." Equity for all is great, unless it means all the schools will be uniformly crappy.

If you've got a silver bullet solution - "optimism, a belief that we were making a better future!" - then by all means present a plan. But if that plan is going to harm other kids, then you'd better make sure it's a good one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

15:51 again. This is all especially hard in a city like DC, where something like 70-75% of the students in the city fit the definition of "H/PBH." If they are spread out evenly among all schools, then all schools will be majority H/PBH. That seems likely to create a downward spiral for all those schools, without much benefit other than letting some people claim they "promoted equity.

More than 70% of my grandmother's poor farming community in one of American's breadbaskets were... poor. And, although I'm sure now someone will chime with a lecture about nuclear families and how those were happier, simpler times, they had just as many obstacles to overcome. Just as much abuse, poverty, malnutrition, domestic violence, etc.

And yet, because there was an optimism, a belief that we were making a better future, most of them went to land grand universities, got jobs, and made a better life for their klids.

Please, stop blaming the people caught in this mess instead of blaming the system that bilks them at every term. Trust me, every parent wants a good education for their kids. Every parent wants the same things you do. And you are just as likely to have your kids catch cooties from the family that jetted in from Zurich as the ones from Deanwood.

You are naive. My parent grew up dirt poor in the holler in WV and managed to climb out of poverty. They grew up around nothing but other poor people. There were different acceptable " norms" than what you see in an urban school system. Too many poor AA kids are growing up on a steady stream of violent rap music, parents who scream "fuck" at the playground and think smoking weed hanging at the shelter at the playground is normal. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I live close to a park where I see this almost daily and close to the projects where the kids have zero role models. Spreading them around the school system isn't going to address the fact that bey are so far behind their high I come peers by the time they start K. This why everyone knows that empowering black males high school is a joke. It's way too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always wonder if the people who blindly trust the DC lottery with the education of their children also trust the DC lottery for the well being of their retirement? Both seem irresponsible and naive to me even if if a few make it work. What serious things to leave to chance so you can walk to get a drink after work and people watch hipsters after work.

Very different problems: if you don't win the school lottery, and you have $$, you can move or go private. If you don't save for retirement, well, nothing to save you when you are old and sick.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote]15:51 again. This is all especially hard in a city like DC, where something like 70-75% of the students in the city fit the definition of "H/PBH." If they are spread out evenly among all schools, then all schools will be majority H/PBH. That seems likely to create a downward spiral for all those schools, without much benefit other than letting some people claim they "promoted equity.[/quote]

More than 70% of my grandmother's poor farming community in one of American's breadbaskets were... poor. And, although I'm sure now someone will chime with a lecture about nuclear families and how those were happier, simpler times, they had just as many obstacles to overcome. Just as much abuse, poverty, malnutrition, domestic violence, etc.

And yet, because there was an optimism, a belief that we were making a better future, most of them went to land grand universities, got jobs, and made a better life for their klids.

Please, stop blaming the people caught in this mess instead of blaming the system that bilks them at every term. Trust me, every parent wants a good education for their kids. Every parent wants the same things you do. And you are just as likely to have your kids catch cooties from the family that jetted in from Zurich as the ones from Deanwood. [/quote]

You are naive. My parent grew up dirt poor in the holler in WV and managed to climb out of poverty. They grew up around nothing but other poor people. There were different acceptable " norms" than what you see in an urban school system. Too many poor AA kids are growing up on a steady stream of violent rap music, parents who scream "fuck" at the playground and think smoking weed hanging at the shelter at the playground is normal. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I live close to a park where I see this almost daily and close to the projects where the kids have zero role models. Spreading them around the school system isn't going to address the fact that bey are so far behind their high I come peers by the time they start K. This why everyone knows that empowering black males high school is a joke. It's way too late.

So what do you propose...just give up?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote]15:51 again. This is all especially hard in a city like DC, where something like 70-75% of the students in the city fit the definition of "H/PBH." If they are spread out evenly among all schools, then all schools will be majority H/PBH. That seems likely to create a downward spiral for all those schools, without much benefit other than letting some people claim they "promoted equity.[/quote]

More than 70% of my grandmother's poor farming community in one of American's breadbaskets were... poor. And, although I'm sure now someone will chime with a lecture about nuclear families and how those were happier, simpler times, they had just as many obstacles to overcome. Just as much abuse, poverty, malnutrition, domestic violence, etc.

And yet, because there was an optimism, a belief that we were making a better future, most of them went to land grand universities, got jobs, and made a better life for their klids.

Please, stop blaming the people caught in this mess instead of blaming the system that bilks them at every term. Trust me, every parent wants a good education for their kids. Every parent wants the same things you do. And you are just as likely to have your kids catch cooties from the family that jetted in from Zurich as the ones from Deanwood. [/quote]

You are naive. My parent grew up dirt poor in the holler in WV and managed to climb out of poverty. They grew up around nothing but other poor people. There were different acceptable " norms" than what you see in an urban school system. Too many poor AA kids are growing up on a steady stream of violent rap music, parents who scream "fuck" at the playground and think smoking weed hanging at the shelter at the playground is normal. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I live close to a park where I see this almost daily and close to the projects where the kids have zero role models. Spreading them around the school system isn't going to address the fact that bey are so far behind their high I come peers by the time they start K. This why everyone knows that empowering black males high school is a joke. It's way too late.

So what do you propose...just give up?[/quote]

Apparently so. Because smoking and violent rap music. The kids aren't really even behind, in my experience. And I wasn't making it a black and white thibg--it isn't, except in the minds of some posters who have long since fled for the car school boards. But it is a rich and poor thing. Intensely.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote]15:51 again. This is all especially hard in a city like DC, where something like 70-75% of the students in the city fit the definition of "H/PBH." If they are spread out evenly among all schools, then all schools will be majority H/PBH. That seems likely to create a downward spiral for all those schools, without much benefit other than letting some people claim they "promoted equity.[/quote]

More than 70% of my grandmother's poor farming community in one of American's breadbaskets were... poor. And, although I'm sure now someone will chime with a lecture about nuclear families and how those were happier, simpler times, they had just as many obstacles to overcome. Just as much abuse, poverty, malnutrition, domestic violence, etc.

And yet, because there was an optimism, a belief that we were making a better future, most of them went to land grand universities, got jobs, and made a better life for their klids.

Please, stop blaming the people caught in this mess instead of blaming the system that bilks them at every term. Trust me, every parent wants a good education for their kids. Every parent wants the same things you do. And you are just as likely to have your kids catch cooties from the family that jetted in from Zurich as the ones from Deanwood. [/quote]

You are naive. My parent grew up dirt poor in the holler in WV and managed to climb out of poverty. They grew up around nothing but other poor people. There were different acceptable " norms" than what you see in an urban school system. Too many poor AA kids are growing up on a steady stream of violent rap music, parents who scream "fuck" at the playground and think smoking weed hanging at the shelter at the playground is normal. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I live close to a park where I see this almost daily and close to the projects where the kids have zero role models. Spreading them around the school system isn't going to address the fact that bey are so far behind their high I come peers by the time they start K. This why everyone knows that empowering black males high school is a joke. It's way too late.

So what do you propose...just give up?[/quote]

Apparently so. Because smoking and violent rap music. The kids aren't really even behind, in my experience. And I wasn't making it a black and white thibg--it isn't, except in the minds of some posters who have long since fled for the car school boards. But it is a rich and poor thing. Intensely.[/quote]

internventkon needs to happen at birth. Look at the Harlem model. They start at birth and teach the PARENTS how to teach their babies and toddlers. this is critical. so many of these parents are holding their kids back and are the single biggest risk factor to their own kids. the test data shows something like a 65 point gap between white and black kids in DC. Only a fool would think that gap could be closed in high school. nothing.at that point steering kids to vocational training or the military is the solution to get them employed.

[Anonymous]

Home visiting programs - from prenatal stage (not what DC schools do) can be very effective. http://www.dcfpi.org/home-visiting-programs-make-sense-for-dc

[lenomdeplume]

Assuming people want to hear the opinion of a recently departed DC teacher, the following link (to a DCUM blog post), explains why the "limo liberals" (and teachers!) leave DC public schools.

SPOILER ALERT (TL;DR): They are terrified over the ferocity of daily student violence in the schools and the indifference of the parents. Here is are excerpts from the teachers explanation of why she quit. Parenthetical remarks, and CAPS, are my own.

"I AM NOT LEAVING BECAUSE ITS "TOUGH AS HELL". THIS PLACE IS HELL." (Is that clear enough for the apologists for violence in schools?)

"My (performance) evaluation is based on their test scores, but 90% (yes, NINETY PERCENT) are FIVE or SIX years below grade level. They're working on basic subtraction in 10th grade Math...you can't put 28 of them in one class and expect any actual learning to occur. I have 34 in some classes..."

"I am leaving because in the first week one teach had his arm dislocated by a student while another suffered a broken hand. They threatened to RAPE a female teacher after work. One of my students war arrested IN MY CLASSROOM for fighting another student for "looking at him".

"The same day, another student was beaten unconscious in the classroom next door. Students intentionally threw laptops from the laptop cart to the ground, shattering them, because "they didn't feel like reading". (Not enough resources, right?) All of these students are still enrolled...after a two day suspension, they returned with new shoes, new hairdos, and new lore among their peers."

They sit in their classes on their cell phones, they gamble, throw chairs, flipper tables in what our administration writes off as "attention seeking behavior" and, all throughout, this someone comes in to informally (?) observe and tell us how shitty of a job we are doing."

"I call parents everyday...FEW apologize...majority say something like "thats your problem" or "Ive washed my hands of my child" or "don't call me again".

(So if a survival instinct is something you possess, wouldn't you take your "limo" and remove YOUR child AND yourself? dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/30/502513.page)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

15:51 again. This is all especially hard in a city like DC, where something like 70-75% of the students in the city fit the definition of "H/PBH." If they are spread out evenly among all schools, then all schools will be majority H/PBH. That seems likely to create a downward spiral for all those schools, without much benefit other than letting some people claim they "promoted equity.

More than 70% of my grandmother's poor farming community in one of American's breadbaskets were... poor. And, although I'm sure now someone will chime with a lecture about nuclear families and how those were happier, simpler times, they had just as many obstacles to overcome. Just as much abuse, poverty, malnutrition, domestic violence, etc.

And yet, because there was an optimism, a belief that we were making a better future, most of them went to land grand universities, got jobs, and made a better life for their klids.

Please, stop blaming the people caught in this mess instead of blaming the system that bilks them at every term. Trust me, every parent wants a good education for their kids. Every parent wants the same things you do. And you are just as likely to have your kids catch cooties from the family that jetted in from Zurich as the ones from Deanwood.

PP, you are a naive idiot. A lot of "parents" in this town only care about free daycare and free food all day long. And that's about all they care about. Your Zurich kid will get the sh*t kicked out of him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

15:51 again. This is all especially hard in a city like DC, where something like 70-75% of the students in the city fit the definition of "H/PBH." If they are spread out evenly among all schools, then all schools will be majority H/PBH. That seems likely to create a downward spiral for all those schools, without much benefit other than letting some people claim they "promoted equity.

More than 70% of my grandmother's poor farming community in one of American's breadbaskets were... poor. And, although I'm sure now someone will chime with a lecture about nuclear families and how those were happier, simpler times, they had just as many obstacles to overcome. Just as much abuse, poverty, malnutrition, domestic violence, etc.

And yet, because there was an optimism, a belief that we were making a better future, most of them went to land grand universities, got jobs, and made a better life for their klids.

Please, stop blaming the people caught in this mess instead of blaming the system that bilks them at every term. Trust me, every parent wants a good education for their kids. Every parent wants the same things you do. And you are just as likely to have your kids catch cooties from the family that jetted in from Zurich as the ones from Deanwood.

You are naive. My parent grew up dirt poor in the holler in WV and managed to climb out of poverty. They grew up around nothing but other poor people. There were different acceptable " norms" than what you see in an urban school system. Too many poor AA kids are growing up on a steady stream of violent rap music, parents who scream "fuck" at the playground and think smoking weed hanging at the shelter at the playground is normal. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I live close to a park where I see this almost daily and close to the projects where the kids have zero role models. Spreading them around the school system isn't going to address the fact that bey are so far behind their high I come peers by the time they start K. This why everyone knows that empowering black males high school is a joke. It's way too late.

+1.

To improve things, better to talk truth than to hide from it.

[lenomdeplume]

A very insightful post was logged in here which referenced a GAO Report to Congressional Requestors. You guys should skim it. http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/676745.pdf

Here is the TL;DR...
It said, in part,..."Students in H/PBH schools were held back in 9th grade, suspended (out- of-school), and expelled at disproportionately higher rates than students in L/PBH schools and all other schools. " Hmmmm...wonder why that is? Three possible reasons.

First, its all an innocent mistake. Most likely, not.

Second, it is due to the unrelenting racism of ALL white people and even black educators, administrators and Law Enforcement officials who have been co-opted by the White Gobermint. That is the Elijah Mohamend school of thought...also not likely given that majority of beaten, wounded and traumatized DC school teachers and students are ALSO of color.

Third possiblity...the "disproportionate" rate of expulsions, suspensions and failing grades are given to those who actually earned them. ( BTW, "L/PBH" schools have far fewer BH students.) If this seems to be automatically racist, have a look at the FBI Crime Statistics. First of all we need to bear in mind that AA's comprise roughly 15% of the U.S. population...that will be relevant shortly.

In its 2014 report of Federal Robberies, Burglaries and Larcenies, 3961 such crimes were committed. Now for the hard to hear part...2030 of those crimes were NOT committed by Whites or Hispanics. I reworded that conclusion in recognition of the Social Justice Warriors who may be reading...and their finely tuned, delicate sensibilities. Thats a perpetration rate of 42.5% vs a population representation of 15%. Not to put too fine a point on it...

And that may be the good news...in the more complete 2012 report, the FBI statistics record that out of all serious crimes committed, AAs are VASTLY overrepresented...or, to put that in another way, they are "disproportionately represented".

In the more complete 2012 FBI data (Table 43A) it is even more disturbing. However, it does go even further towards making sense of the "disproportionate" rates of punishment. Of the 30 major crimes listed in the table (murder, robbery, assault, violent arson, weapons, prostitution, etc), AA's commit Much more than 15% of those crimes in 27 out of 30 categories. Sometimes by as much as FOUR TIMES their share of the population. For example, is descending order of revulsion...
Gambling (Org Crime) 67.4%...Robbery 54.9%...Murder 49.4%...Prostitution 42%...Illegal Weapons Possession 40%...Violent Arson (wherein someone is badly injured) 39%...Aggravated Assault 34%....Forcible Rape 31%. BTW, in only two categories are AA not "disproportionately" arrested...alcohol related.

So, I agree with that OP...this situation (in schools, not in society at large) will only get worse UNLESS the foolish holy grail of blindly chasing desegregation is at least altered to allow at least temporary "resegregation" of (and allocation of necessary resources for) low performers into classes designed specifically for their remedial education. The question of remedial education for survivable (ours, not theirs) social values is a much larger problem.

A 10th grade Math teacher recently remarked on another forum that her students (H/PBH) number about 28 -30 per class and,when they actually attend (which is rare), they are only able to perform on a fifth grade level. Obviously, that level of deficit is WAY beyond the ability on a "mainstream" teacher to rectify.