Move to fly over country for job?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interviewing for a VP job at a company. Their HQ is based in -what DMVers would describe as flyover country. But housing is 70% cheaper like $200k buys you a fancy 5 bedroom house in a nice suburb.

My spouse would have to give up job for a while and do childcare. It would take a year to relicense in the new state. My salary would be equal to what we both make in DMV.

Let's say diversity is non existent in the city. We fall into the "diversity" category. Weather is cold.. Not a lot of cultural stuff; very conservative (we are liberals).

Worth considering? Or is quality of life more important.

I wonder if OP ever dreamed that his original post would turn into 7 pages of this crap....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's nice. OP said Green Bay.

Yes, but some other idiot PP was dissing Milwaukee. I have to stand up for my hometown!

Yep, stand up for your hometown! ~former Clevelander here

Former Detroiter here - I'm with you both! I'm sick of the Midwest stereotypes.

And yet you are a former Detroiter (more likely a former Bloomfield Hillser or Birminghamer) for a reason, yes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sounds like you are talking about Milwaukee. I live in the upper Midwest and also grew up in NYC. The problem I have is how insular place lsike Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland are. Very few people move in and out. Most of the people grew up, went to school, and married someone locally and have never lived anywhere else. Your spouse is going to go up against people who have friends and family in the area forever. If its a 2-5 year stint, fine, anything else, not great. Cheap housing isn't the only thing in life.

I'm the PP who lasted 3 years in one of the cities you mention above and that was EXACTLY my experience. It was hard to make friends because everyone grew up in neighboring suburbs and had known each other since elementary school. We were in a very desirable close-in suburb and there was also this sense of provincialism and self-satisfaction that they had "made it" to the desirable suburb. It played into the racism mentioned in my PP. They had grown up in a neighboring suburb with, like 25% minorities but had managed to "trade up" to the all white suburb and were super proud of themselves. My husband's company was the one who suggested the neighborhood, and I don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe it was just that no one liked you, not hard to believe since you looked down on all of them as "provincial" and "racist."

Or...they were actually racist. There are racist people in the world, you know, and the area where we were living was known for electing super racist officials who said things like "We should just put a fence around X city, like a reservation."

I'm the PP who made the points bolded. Not saying that EVERY person is like this, but there is a predominant provincialism that permeates these areas. Sure, walk into a Trader Joe's in one of these cities and you will see cool, offbeat people, but unlike a more cosmopolitan city, the local vibe is conformity combined with a lack of ambition. Is a doctor in the Cleveland Clinic driven? Are some of the restaurants in the Flats excellent? Of course but people generally want to go to work, get home as soon as they can, work on the house, watch sports, and get drunk.[/quote]

I can't imagine why they may not have been impressed with your wit, brains, cosmopolitan outlook, ambition, AND[u] obvious humility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sounds like you are talking about Milwaukee. I live in the upper Midwest and also grew up in NYC. The problem I have is how insular place lsike Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland are. Very few people move in and out. Most of the people grew up, went to school, and married someone locally and have never lived anywhere else. Your spouse is going to go up against people who have friends and family in the area forever. If its a 2-5 year stint, fine, anything else, not great. Cheap housing isn't the only thing in life.

I'm the PP who lasted 3 years in one of the cities you mention above and that was EXACTLY my experience. It was hard to make friends because everyone grew up in neighboring suburbs and had known each other since elementary school. We were in a very desirable close-in suburb and there was also this sense of provincialism and self-satisfaction that they had "made it" to the desirable suburb. It played into the racism mentioned in my PP. They had grown up in a neighboring suburb with, like 25% minorities but had managed to "trade up" to the all white suburb and were super proud of themselves. My husband's company was the one who suggested the neighborhood, and I don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe it was just that no one liked you, not hard to believe since you looked down on all of them as "provincial" and "racist."

Or...they were actually racist. There are racist people in the world, you know, and the area where we were living was known for electing super racist officials who said things like "We should just put a fence around X city, like a reservation."

I'm the PP who made the points bolded. Not saying that EVERY person is like this, but there is a predominant provincialism that permeates these areas. Sure, walk into a Trader Joe's in one of these cities and you will see cool, offbeat people, but unlike a more cosmopolitan city, the local vibe is conformity combined with a lack of ambition. Is a doctor in the Cleveland Clinic driven? Are some of the restaurants in the Flats excellent? Of course but people generally want to go to work, get home as soon as they can, work on the house, watch sports, and get drunk.

So, you basically wrote everyone there (except for "a doctor at the Cleveland Clinic") as a bunch of lazy, racist, drunk sports fans with no ambition? No wonder you had no friends! I am from another Midwestern city and I can tell you that Midwesterners are some of the smartest, funniest, most hardworking people in the country. They do a heck of a lot more with their lives than push paper and put people down like you do and they are a lot happier too. Maybe you are the provincial narrow-minded one. Oh, and you can lay off calling them racists as you sit in your carefully selected lily white enclave, hypocrite.

Shocking, isn't it?!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sounds like you are talking about Milwaukee. I live in the upper Midwest and also grew up in NYC. The problem I have is how insular place lsike Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland are. Very few people move in and out. Most of the people grew up, went to school, and married someone locally and have never lived anywhere else. Your spouse is going to go up against people who have friends and family in the area forever. If its a 2-5 year stint, fine, anything else, not great. Cheap housing isn't the only thing in life.

I'm the PP who lasted 3 years in one of the cities you mention above and that was EXACTLY my experience. It was hard to make friends because everyone grew up in neighboring suburbs and had known each other since elementary school. We were in a very desirable close-in suburb and there was also this sense of provincialism and self-satisfaction that they had "made it" to the desirable suburb. It played into the racism mentioned in my PP. They had grown up in a neighboring suburb with, like 25% minorities but had managed to "trade up" to the all white suburb and were super proud of themselves. My husband's company was the one who suggested the neighborhood, and I don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe it was just that no one liked you, not hard to believe since you looked down on all of them as "provincial" and "racist."

+1 People are good at recognizing a warm, genuine, friendly, intelligent, hard-working person who isn't bragging and/or looking down on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sounds like you are talking about Milwaukee. I live in the upper Midwest and also grew up in NYC. The problem I have is how insular place lsike Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland are. Very few people move in and out. Most of the people grew up, went to school, and married someone locally and have never lived anywhere else. Your spouse is going to go up against people who have friends and family in the area forever. If its a 2-5 year stint, fine, anything else, not great. Cheap housing isn't the only thing in life.

I'm the PP who lasted 3 years in one of the cities you mention above and that was EXACTLY my experience. It was hard to make friends because everyone grew up in neighboring suburbs and had known each other since elementary school. We were in a very desirable close-in suburb and there was also this sense of provincialism and self-satisfaction that they had "made it" to the desirable suburb. It played into the racism mentioned in my PP. They had grown up in a neighboring suburb with, like 25% minorities but had managed to "trade up" to the all white suburb and were super proud of themselves. My husband's company was the one who suggested the neighborhood, and I don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe it was just that no one liked you, not hard to believe since you looked down on all of them as "provincial" and "racist."

+1 People are good at recognizing a warm, genuine, friendly, intelligent, hard-working person who isn't bragging and/or looking down on them.

You may have missed the part where people made casually racist comments in front of me, not knowing that my kids are mixed race. I've never had that happen in DC. But these women thought they were in an "all white safe space" and said the most appalling things about "those people." I'm not guessing that they were racist. They were racist right in front of me, not knowing that they were talking about my family. There may be plenty of places in so-called flyover country where this isn't the case, but I'm talking about my own experiences trying to raise mixed-race kids in a place where people think Black people only live on the other side of the tracks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sounds like you are talking about Milwaukee. I live in the upper Midwest and also grew up in NYC. The problem I have is how insular place lsike Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland are. Very few people move in and out. Most of the people grew up, went to school, and married someone locally and have never lived anywhere else. Your spouse is going to go up against people who have friends and family in the area forever. If its a 2-5 year stint, fine, anything else, not great. Cheap housing isn't the only thing in life.

I'm the PP who lasted 3 years in one of the cities you mention above and that was EXACTLY my experience. It was hard to make friends because everyone grew up in neighboring suburbs and had known each other since elementary school. We were in a very desirable close-in suburb and there was also this sense of provincialism and self-satisfaction that they had "made it" to the desirable suburb. It played into the racism mentioned in my PP. They had grown up in a neighboring suburb with, like 25% minorities but had managed to "trade up" to the all white suburb and were super proud of themselves. My husband's company was the one who suggested the neighborhood, and I don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe it was just that no one liked you, not hard to believe since you looked down on all of them as "provincial" and "racist."

+1 People are good at recognizing a warm, genuine, friendly, intelligent, hard-working person who isn't bragging and/or looking down on them.

You may have missed the part where people made casually racist comments in front of me, not knowing that my kids are mixed race. I've never had that happen in DC. But these women thought they were in an "all white safe space" and said the most appalling things about "those people." I'm not guessing that they were racist. They were racist right in front of me, not knowing that they were talking about my family. There may be plenty of places in so-called flyover country where this isn't the case, but I'm talking about my own experiences trying to raise mixed-race kids in a place where people think Black people only live on the other side of the tracks.

PP here. If that's the case, then I don't blame you for your feelings. Those kinds of comments and that way of thinking are inexcusable. It does surprise me though. I have lived in several southern cities (I realize you're talking about another region) and have never had friends, family members, or even casual work acquaintances think that way or make those kinds of comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interviewing for a VP job at a company. Their HQ is based in -what DMVers would describe as flyover country. But housing is 70% cheaper like $200k buys you a fancy 5 bedroom house in a nice suburb.

My spouse would have to give up job for a while and do childcare. It would take a year to relicense in the new state. My salary would be equal to what we both make in DMV.

Let's say diversity is non existent in the city. We fall into the "diversity" category. Weather is cold.. Not a lot of cultural stuff; very conservative (we are liberals).

Worth considering? Or is quality of life more important.

Sounds like Cincinnati, although you wouldn't get a 5 bedroom house for 200k. Reeks of a racism. Full of hate filled Trump supporting conservatives. Don't move here. I wish I could move else where but have lived here too long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interviewing for a VP job at a company. Their HQ is based in -what DMVers would describe as flyover country. But housing is 70% cheaper like $200k buys you a fancy 5 bedroom house in a nice suburb.

My spouse would have to give up job for a while and do childcare. It would take a year to relicense in the new state. My salary would be equal to what we both make in DMV.

Let's say diversity is non existent in the city. We fall into the "diversity" category. Weather is cold.. Not a lot of cultural stuff; very conservative (we are liberals).

Worth considering? Or is quality of life more important.

(1) So it sounds like you don't want to live near white people. You should consider if you are racist because you only want to live with people of your own race.
(2) It sounds like you are closed minded because you don't want to live around people that have a different opinion that you.

You sound closed minded and have pre-judged a people and place without really knowing about it. Congratulations! You are what you claim to not want to be around!

[Anonymous]

I lived in Appleton. I'm "crunchy", liberal, fairly affluent, atheist, not a minority but my husband and children are multiracial, and had little problem finding cool people to hang out with. In fact, I had a much easier time finding these people in Appleton than in my Chevy Chase neighborhood full of uptight, career-obsessed people.

Don't confuse career/status driven with intellectualism or interesting-ness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sure that others who have actually lived in Green Bay will chime in but Green Bay is not a bad place. And despite the prevailing belief amongst the DC crowd, is remarkably accepting of others. Which is why you find the largest concentration of Arab Muslims outside of the Middle East in Detroit and why there is such a huge population of Somalis in Minneapolis.

A key question seems how important to you is having common religious culture and heritage right next door? Only you can answer that. Otherwise I think you will find the people to be generally warm.

And remember this isn't a life sentence.

My biggest problem with Green Bay is winters and the Packers

OP, people in WI looooove their football.

Yes, but a key thing is that it is a municipally-owned football team. Every year I root for the socialist Packers!

Um, no, they are not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's nice. OP said Green Bay.

Yes, but some other idiot PP was dissing Milwaukee. I have to stand up for my hometown!

Yep, stand up for your hometown! ~former Clevelander here

Former Detroiter here - I'm with you both! I'm sick of the Midwest stereotypes.

And yet you are a former Detroiter (more likely a former Bloomfield Hillser or Birminghamer) for a reason, yes?

Well yes, people tend to move away from their hometowns at some point. Not sure what you're trying to say...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's nice. OP said Green Bay.

Yes, but some other idiot PP was dissing Milwaukee. I have to stand up for my hometown!

Yep, stand up for your hometown! ~former Clevelander here

Former Detroiter here - I'm with you both! I'm sick of the Midwest stereotypes.

And yet you are a former Detroiter (more likely a former Bloomfield Hillser or Birminghamer) for a reason, yes?

Another Detroit ex-pat here, and it is my dream to move back. My immediate family still lives in the city. Pretty presumptuous thinking that people only live outside the city. Frankly there is plenty of intolerance everywhere -- it doesn't always take the form of racial intolerance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interviewing for a VP job at a company. Their HQ is based in -what DMVers would describe as flyover country. But housing is 70% cheaper like $200k buys you a fancy 5 bedroom house in a nice suburb.

My spouse would have to give up job for a while and do childcare. It would take a year to relicense in the new state. My salary would be equal to what we both make in DMV.

Let's say diversity is non existent in the city. We fall into the "diversity" category. Weather is cold.. Not a lot of cultural stuff; very conservative (we are liberals).

Worth considering? Or is quality of life more important.

(1) So it sounds like you don't want to live near white people. You should consider if you are racist because you only want to live with people of your own race.
(2) It sounds like you are closed minded because you don't want to live around people that have a different opinion that you.

You sound closed minded and have pre-judged a people and place without really knowing about it. Congratulations! You are what you claim to not want to be around!

Ugh! OP has a right to consider the implications of this on children. See the thread re: black history month in schools. I think mom felt like her child was a the sole representative for black people at school. I think mom pushes her child a bit more than the child wants to share her heritage/cultural history, but I applaud her for wanting to be a cultural ambassador. OP may not be racist -- just a concerned parent. I think OP needs to consider how the family will adapt. Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. Good luck OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interviewing for a VP job at a company. Their HQ is based in -what DMVers would describe as flyover country. But housing is 70% cheaper like $200k buys you a fancy 5 bedroom house in a nice suburb.

My spouse would have to give up job for a while and do childcare. It would take a year to relicense in the new state. My salary would be equal to what we both make in DMV.

Let's say diversity is non existent in the city. We fall into the "diversity" category. Weather is cold.. Not a lot of cultural stuff; very conservative (we are liberals).

Worth considering? Or is quality of life more important.

(1) So it sounds like you don't want to live near white people. You should consider if you are racist because you only want to live with people of your own race.
(2) It sounds like you are closed minded because you don't want to live around people that have a different opinion that you.

You sound closed minded and have pre-judged a people and place without really knowing about it. Congratulations! You are what you claim to not want to be around!

Ugh! OP has a right to consider the implications of this on children. See the thread re: black history month in schools. I think mom felt like her child was a the sole representative for black people at school. I think mom pushes her child a bit more than the child wants to share her heritage/cultural history, but I applaud her for wanting to be a cultural ambassador. OP may not be racist -- just a concerned parent. I think OP needs to consider how the family will adapt. Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. Good luck OP.

Well the OP is wrong. There is not a single school (elementary, middle, high) in the Green Bay public school district that is more than 80% white.