Move to fly over country for job?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sounds like you are talking about Milwaukee. I live in the upper Midwest and also grew up in NYC. The problem I have is how insular place lsike Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland are. Very few people move in and out. Most of the people grew up, went to school, and married someone locally and have never lived anywhere else. Your spouse is going to go up against people who have friends and family in the area forever. If its a 2-5 year stint, fine, anything else, not great. Cheap housing isn't the only thing in life.

I'm the PP who lasted 3 years in one of the cities you mention above and that was EXACTLY my experience. It was hard to make friends because everyone grew up in neighboring suburbs and had known each other since elementary school. We were in a very desirable close-in suburb and there was also this sense of provincialism and self-satisfaction that they had "made it" to the desirable suburb. It played into the racism mentioned in my PP. They had grown up in a neighboring suburb with, like 25% minorities but had managed to "trade up" to the all white suburb and were super proud of themselves. My husband's company was the one who suggested the neighborhood, and I don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe it was just that no one liked you, not hard to believe since you looked down on all of them as "provincial" and "racist."

Or...they were actually racist. There are racist people in the world, you know, and the area where we were living was known for electing super racist officials who said things like "We should just put a fence around X city, like a reservation."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did it and regretted it. I missed being able to walk places, and being surrounded by people who care about the things I care about. As a white person with kids of color, I was also STUNNED by the casual racism that folks threw around in what they perceived as all-white safe spaces. I lasted three years before I insisted we leave again.

That's why it's important for OP to post more info. The location does make a difference. Cleveland is not the same as Ann Arbor.

I've lived in both. We all know about Ann Arbor. But Cleveland is, actually, a progressive, diverse city with a great arts scene, museums, parks, medical facilities, and restaurants. The weather is not for everyone. The stupidity and provincialism on this board never cease to amaze.

Im from Cleveland and I took that comment to mean that Ann Arbor was much less diverse than Cleveland but you may be right, pp.

Who knows, but I took it to be yet another reference to the glory of Ann Arbor that one finds on this board. They are both cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sounds like you are talking about Milwaukee. I live in the upper Midwest and also grew up in NYC. The problem I have is how insular place lsike Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland are. Very few people move in and out. Most of the people grew up, went to school, and married someone locally and have never lived anywhere else. Your spouse is going to go up against people who have friends and family in the area forever. If its a 2-5 year stint, fine, anything else, not great. Cheap housing isn't the only thing in life.

I'm the PP who lasted 3 years in one of the cities you mention above and that was EXACTLY my experience. It was hard to make friends because everyone grew up in neighboring suburbs and had known each other since elementary school. We were in a very desirable close-in suburb and there was also this sense of provincialism and self-satisfaction that they had "made it" to the desirable suburb. It played into the racism mentioned in my PP. They had grown up in a neighboring suburb with, like 25% minorities but had managed to "trade up" to the all white suburb and were super proud of themselves. My husband's company was the one who suggested the neighborhood, and I don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe it was just that no one liked you, not hard to believe since you looked down on all of them as "provincial" and "racist."

Or...they were actually racist. There are racist people in the world, you know, and the area where we were living was known for electing super racist officials who said things like "We should just put a fence around X city, like a reservation."

I'm the PP who made the points bolded. Not saying that EVERY person is like this, but there is a predominant provincialism that permeates these areas. Sure, walk into a Trader Joe's in one of these cities and you will see cool, offbeat people, but unlike a more cosmopolitan city, the local vibe is conformity combined with a lack of ambition. Is a doctor in the Cleveland Clinic driven? Are some of the restaurants in the Flats excellent? Of course but people generally want to go to work, get home as soon as they can, work on the house, watch sports, and get drunk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interviewing for a VP job at a company. Their HQ is based in -what DMVers would describe as flyover country. But housing is 70% cheaper like $200k buys you a fancy 5 bedroom house in a nice suburb.

My spouse would have to give up job for a while and do childcare. It would take a year to relicense in the new state. My salary would be equal to what we both make in DMV.

Let's say diversity is non existent in the city. We fall into the "diversity" category. Weather is cold.. Not a lot of cultural stuff; very conservative (we are liberals).

Worth considering? Or is quality of life more important.

Take the job. Are you male? Female? If male have another kid -you and sahm in the low cola living area. Get a cheap house [not even the 5 bedroom for 200,000] in a nice neighborhood. Save your money-birth and raise then leave with hefty savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sounds like you are talking about Milwaukee. I live in the upper Midwest and also grew up in NYC. The problem I have is how insular place lsike Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland are. Very few people move in and out. Most of the people grew up, went to school, and married someone locally and have never lived anywhere else. Your spouse is going to go up against people who have friends and family in the area forever. If its a 2-5 year stint, fine, anything else, not great. Cheap housing isn't the only thing in life.

I'm the PP who lasted 3 years in one of the cities you mention above and that was EXACTLY my experience. It was hard to make friends because everyone grew up in neighboring suburbs and had known each other since elementary school. We were in a very desirable close-in suburb and there was also this sense of provincialism and self-satisfaction that they had "made it" to the desirable suburb. It played into the racism mentioned in my PP. They had grown up in a neighboring suburb with, like 25% minorities but had managed to "trade up" to the all white suburb and were super proud of themselves. My husband's company was the one who suggested the neighborhood, and I don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe it was just that no one liked you, not hard to believe since you looked down on all of them as "provincial" and "racist."

Or...they were actually racist. There are racist people in the world, you know, and the area where we were living was known for electing super racist officials who said things like "We should just put a fence around X city, like a reservation."

I'm the PP who made the points bolded. Not saying that EVERY person is like this, but there is a predominant provincialism that permeates these areas. Sure, walk into a Trader Joe's in one of these cities and you will see cool, offbeat people, but unlike a more cosmopolitan city, the local vibe is conformity combined with a lack of ambition. Is a doctor in the Cleveland Clinic driven? Are some of the restaurants in the Flats excellent? Of course but people generally want to go to work, get home as soon as they can, work on the house, watch sports, and get drunk.

Shaker Heights? Cleveland Heights? Coventry section? Progressive and diverse. The Flats were popular like what, 20 years ago? Sure, if you head out to Pepper Pike and other areas, it gets whiter. And the older suburbs on the west side have issues. And I am sorry that you seem to have encountered racists and that it did not work out for you there. But I've never lived in a more interesting place. And there is just as much racism around DC, I assure you. It's just more of the backstabbing, smile through the teeth kind. Or the kind that obsesses over things like, what's wrong with S. Arlington schools. Code words, ya know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did it and regretted it. I missed being able to walk places, and being surrounded by people who care about the things I care about. As a white person with kids of color, I was also STUNNED by the casual racism that folks threw around in what they perceived as all-white safe spaces. I lasted three years before I insisted we leave again.

That's why it's important for OP to post more info. The location does make a difference. Cleveland is not the same as Ann Arbor.

I've lived in both. We all know about Ann Arbor. But Cleveland is, actually, a progressive, diverse city with a great arts scene, museums, parks, medical facilities, and restaurants. The weather is not for everyone. The stupidity and provincialism on this board never cease to amaze.

+1 to this statement, but it is highly entertaining and one of the main reasons I come to DCUM. I also like to encourage them, in various ways, to stay in DC, (or rather, the DC area) because it is the city they deserve, with the people and traffic and stress and commutes they have sought out. They should accept nothing less!! Do NOT want them coming to my "flyover" area, and contaminating it with their snobby, yet uninformed condescension. For god's sake stay on the east coast! At my workplace, it's always fun to see their faces when they realize many of their coworkers also have excellent educations, have lived in multiple countries, and are innovating in our field. They usually try to play the Ivy-league card then, not so subtly.

[Anonymous]

I find women to be better looking, sexier, and more open minded in flyover land. YMMV, and I'm not a lawyer or consultant, so assortive mating in DC is concededly hard for me. Hoping for a promotion, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, sounds like you are talking about Milwaukee. I live in the upper Midwest and also grew up in NYC. The problem I have is how insular place lsike Milwaukee, Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland are. Very few people move in and out. Most of the people grew up, went to school, and married someone locally and have never lived anywhere else. Your spouse is going to go up against people who have friends and family in the area forever. If its a 2-5 year stint, fine, anything else, not great. Cheap housing isn't the only thing in life.

I'm the PP who lasted 3 years in one of the cities you mention above and that was EXACTLY my experience. It was hard to make friends because everyone grew up in neighboring suburbs and had known each other since elementary school. We were in a very desirable close-in suburb and there was also this sense of provincialism and self-satisfaction that they had "made it" to the desirable suburb. It played into the racism mentioned in my PP. They had grown up in a neighboring suburb with, like 25% minorities but had managed to "trade up" to the all white suburb and were super proud of themselves. My husband's company was the one who suggested the neighborhood, and I don't know what they were thinking.

Maybe it was just that no one liked you, not hard to believe since you looked down on all of them as "provincial" and "racist."

Or...they were actually racist. There are racist people in the world, you know, and the area where we were living was known for electing super racist officials who said things like "We should just put a fence around X city, like a reservation."

I'm the PP who made the points bolded. Not saying that EVERY person is like this, but there is a predominant provincialism that permeates these areas. Sure, walk into a Trader Joe's in one of these cities and you will see cool, offbeat people, but unlike a more cosmopolitan city, the local vibe is conformity combined with a lack of ambition. Is a doctor in the Cleveland Clinic driven? Are some of the restaurants in the Flats excellent? Of course but people generally want to go to work, get home as soon as they can, work on the house, watch sports, and get drunk.

So, you basically wrote everyone there (except for "a doctor at the Cleveland Clinic") as a bunch of lazy, racist, drunk sports fans with no ambition? No wonder you had no friends! I am from another Midwestern city and I can tell you that Midwesterners are some of the smartest, funniest, most hardworking people in the country. They do a heck of a lot more with their lives than push paper and put people down like you do and they are a lot happier too. Maybe you are the provincial narrow-minded one. Oh, and you can lay off calling them racists as you sit in your carefully selected lily white enclave, hypocrite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did it and regretted it. I missed being able to walk places, and being surrounded by people who care about the things I care about. As a white person with kids of color, I was also STUNNED by the casual racism that folks threw around in what they perceived as all-white safe spaces. I lasted three years before I insisted we leave again.

That's why it's important for OP to post more info. The location does make a difference. Cleveland is not the same as Ann Arbor.

I've lived in both. We all know about Ann Arbor. But Cleveland is, actually, a progressive, diverse city with a great arts scene, museums, parks, medical facilities, and restaurants. The weather is not for everyone. The stupidity and provincialism on this board never cease to amaze.

+1 to this statement, but it is highly entertaining and one of the main reasons I come to DCUM. I also like to encourage them, in various ways, to stay in DC, (or rather, the DC area) because it is the city they deserve, with the people and traffic and stress and commutes they have sought out. They should accept nothing less!! Do NOT want them coming to my "flyover" area, and contaminating it with their snobby, yet uninformed condescension. For god's sake stay on the east coast! At my workplace, it's always fun to see their faces when they realize many of their coworkers also have excellent educations, have lived in multiple countries, and are innovating in our field. They usually try to play the Ivy-league card then, not so subtly.

+100. Well said.

[Anonymous]

The Fly Over Fanatics versus the DC Drones. I love it! Where's that picture of the panda eating popcorn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's nice. OP said Green Bay.

Yes, but some other idiot PP was dissing Milwaukee. I have to stand up for my hometown!

Yep, stand up for your hometown! ~former Clevelander here

Former Detroiter here - I'm with you both! I'm sick of the Midwest stereotypes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did it and regretted it. I missed being able to walk places, and being surrounded by people who care about the things I care about. As a white person with kids of color, I was also STUNNED by the casual racism that folks threw around in what they perceived as all-white safe spaces. I lasted three years before I insisted we leave again.

That's why it's important for OP to post more info. The location does make a difference. Cleveland is not the same as Ann Arbor.

I've lived in both. We all know about Ann Arbor. But Cleveland is, actually, a progressive, diverse city with a great arts scene, museums, parks, medical facilities, and restaurants. The weather is not for everyone. The stupidity and provincialism on this board never cease to amaze.

Im from Cleveland and I took that comment to mean that Ann Arbor was much less diverse than Cleveland but you may be right, pp.

Who knows, but I took it to be yet another reference to the glory of Ann Arbor that one finds on this board. They are both cool.

Go Blue! Ann Arbor is glorious!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did it and regretted it. I missed being able to walk places, and being surrounded by people who care about the things I care about. As a white person with kids of color, I was also STUNNED by the casual racism that folks threw around in what they perceived as all-white safe spaces. I lasted three years before I insisted we leave again.

That's why it's important for OP to post more info. The location does make a difference. Cleveland is not the same as Ann Arbor.

I've lived in both. We all know about Ann Arbor. But Cleveland is, actually, a progressive, diverse city with a great arts scene, museums, parks, medical facilities, and restaurants. The weather is not for everyone. The stupidity and provincialism on this board never cease to amaze.

Im from Cleveland and I took that comment to mean that Ann Arbor was much less diverse than Cleveland but you may be right, pp.

Who knows, but I took it to be yet another reference to the glory of Ann Arbor that one finds on this board. They are both cool.

Go Blue! Ann Arbor is glorious!

Gets dull after a semester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We did it and regretted it. I missed being able to walk places, and being surrounded by people who care about the things I care about. As a white person with kids of color, I was also STUNNED by the casual racism that folks threw around in what they perceived as all-white safe spaces. I lasted three years before I insisted we leave again.

That's why it's important for OP to post more info. The location does make a difference. Cleveland is not the same as Ann Arbor.

I've lived in both. We all know about Ann Arbor. But Cleveland is, actually, a progressive, diverse city with a great arts scene, museums, parks, medical facilities, and restaurants. The weather is not for everyone. The stupidity and provincialism on this board never cease to amaze.

Im from Cleveland and I took that comment to mean that Ann Arbor was much less diverse than Cleveland but you may be right, pp.

Who knows, but I took it to be yet another reference to the glory of Ann Arbor that one finds on this board. They are both cool.

Go Blue! Ann Arbor is glorious!

Gets dull after a semester.

NP. I've been living here for a year and a half (posting from outside of a restaurant on S Main), and it hasn't gotten dull yet! We have to move this summer--the life of an academic family--and we're going to miss it a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you felt like a fish out of water in NYC I would predict a bumpy transition.

There are lots of folks who have lived all over the place reading posts like yours; if you could name the location you're considering you may find more specific helpful advice.

That is an inaccurate statement and an ignorant "generality".

I was born and raised in DC, and have always loved NYC specifically because of the hustle and bustle. Then DH got a job in one of those "flyover cities" that everyone around here loves to hate... ....and not only was the transition very easy but we acclimated very quickly and fell in love with the place. We made great friends, life was slower, our money went much further and our taxes were way lower. Than DH got a big promotion with that same company that required a move back to DC. At first we thought it would be easy to come back because it was so familiar to us, and its where we were from, friends and family there etc. Wrong answer. We lasted 2 years in DC after our 5 year stint in that "flyover city" because we got a taste of what it was like to live in such a wonderful, calm and inviting place. After 2 years we sold the DC house, changed jobs and moved back.

Are you a minority living in a place where there are few or no other minorities? Do you have to travel two hours to find a community that practices your religion?

Then be very thoughtful about your process of choosing where you're going to live instead of crucifying and area because it takes you TWO HOURS to get to a place where you can practice your religion. In an older more established area where land is scarce I hardly think its reasonable for anyone to think its okay to tear a building down to make room for a church, synagogue, mosque or what have you. And if you want it so badly, buy the land and the building and tear it down to make sure you're being represented.