Earning Well but Drowning in Debt...how to dig out?

[Anonymous]

If you want to get ahead in your career please don't mommy track yourself so you can save money on pick-up or drop-off. Your income is worth so much more over the long-term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got out of consumer debt that was just over 100k in 18 months. Our income is about 100k higher than yours, but we do have an AuPair so our childcare expenses are pretty high.

The key is we have a pretty low mortgage due to living in Loudoun county. A crutial piece of info missing is what's your housing expenses and equity? Because people telling you to pack your lunch are really good missing it. Packing lunch won't dig you out of this.

What we did was went through every single bill and figured out ways to lower it, we then tracked ALL spending each month and each month fought to lower it. We removed our kids from travel sports ( they survived). We not only paid off the debt, we now have a quickly growing cash savings. We are up to 40k in cash now.

I can't believe how quickly you were able to get out of that kind of debt. How much is your mortgage?

2500/mo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op again. We are navigating the summer camp thing now. $450 (or even higher... Smithsonian camps are closer to $540/week with aftercare!) seems to be pretty standard unless you do a city camp or Ymca type camp, which are ok but not for the whole summer. They aren't always well organized. We are looking at sending kids to stay with relatives for part of the summer.

I honestly think a big problem is the cost of living here. $450/week per child for camp is so crazy. Housing is so expensive. Even food is more expensive. Daycare most expensive in nation. I would love to move somewhere cheaper. But I am a fed and DH also works on the Hill.

DH and I live in Loudoun County (I'm thr poster who got out of 100k in consumer debt in 18mos) and EVERYTHING is more expensive in DC. Not a single summer camp is 450/wk where I live. I'm in a SFH with 4BRS 3.5BAs and a full suite in the basement for our AuPair for 2500/mo. Granted we work in Reston/Tysons, but that is no accident. We didn't want to be in your position, high income and stretched to the max. I really think that people like you who live in DC are outrageous. I simply don't get it whrn there are so many jobs elsewhere. The government doesn't even pay well (relatively speaking). I see no upside. If I need a "DC" experience we just trek it there with the kids.

[Anonymous]

OP here. First of all, we are NOT in DC. We are not far from DC but do not have easy access to metro. Second, we have three kids in two different locations. Even with two cars, drop off and pickup from daycare / aftercare is stressful as can be and we often run right up to the 6pm deadline even when we leave at 5pm. Figuring out how to take public transport back and forth from two locations with Jobs just isn't realistic. So selling cars is not an option. It would be great if we could get by on one car. But we cannot.

We do run around a lot to activities in evenings and on weekends. We do not shop at Whole Foods as a PP suggested. Try giant, shoppers, and occasionally trader joes if we need RTH foods for an especially busy work week. We do tend to get carryout and some delivery 1-2x per week. We have a restaurant night one night per week. DH travels a lot for work so when he is away and I am flying solo with the kids doing two drop offs and pickups and working a 9-10 hr day, I do give myself the luxury of not having to cook an extra night.

We do have two elderly dogs in addition to the three kids. Dogs predate kids. So we have dog walking we pay for each month and extra expenses there for food.

Honestly, I am grateful to those who post helpful and positive comments instead of the "oh you shouldn't have had three kids and bought a house." Well thanks a frickin lot for those genius comments. What do we do? Give two kids up for adoption and live in a box down by the river?

We certainly are not going to sell our home, which is already too small, and move our kids into an even smaller apartment in a crappy school district in DC with even higher taxes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op again. We are navigating the summer camp thing now. $450 (or even higher... Smithsonian camps are closer to $540/week with aftercare!) seems to be pretty standard unless you do a city camp or Ymca type camp, which are ok but not for the whole summer. They aren't always well organized. We are looking at sending kids to stay with relatives for part of the summer.

I honestly think a big problem is the cost of living here. $450/week per child for camp is so crazy. Housing is so expensive. Even food is more expensive. Daycare most expensive in nation. I would love to move somewhere cheaper. But I am a fed and DH also works on the Hill.

DH and I live in Loudoun County (I'm thr poster who got out of 100k in consumer debt in 18mos) and EVERYTHING is more expensive in DC. Not a single summer camp is 450/wk where I live. I'm in a SFH with 4BRS 3.5BAs and a full suite in the basement for our AuPair for 2500/mo. Granted we work in Reston/Tysons, but that is no accident. We didn't want to be in your position, high income and stretched to the max. I really think that people like you who live in DC are outrageous. I simply don't get it whrn there are so many jobs elsewhere. The government doesn't even pay well (relatively speaking). I see no upside. If I need a "DC" experience we just trek it there with the kids.

Op here and I agree with you. I would consider a move out further to outer Fairfax county (w Springfield, Burke, Clifton) or even Prince William, but DH won't because of our commute to DC. I want so badly to move out. All our friends in other parts of the country are doing so much better.

I realize I have made financial mistakes. Using credit cards to help through grad schools and maternity leave. Taking a longer maternity leave and not getting paid. I decided to take lwop for an extra month with each child. But that was precious extra time that I couldn't get back. Now I am trying to make things right or better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We got out of consumer debt that was just over 100k in 18 months. Our income is about 100k higher than yours, but we do have an AuPair so our childcare expenses are pretty high.

The key is we have a pretty low mortgage due to living in Loudoun county. A crutial piece of info missing is what's your housing expenses and equity? Because people telling you to pack your lunch are really good missing it. Packing lunch won't dig you out of this.

What we did was went through every single bill and figured out ways to lower it, we then tracked ALL spending each month and each month fought to lower it. We removed our kids from travel sports ( they survived). We not only paid off the debt, we now have a quickly growing cash savings. We are up to 40k in cash now.

I'm sorry, what? Your HHI is $378, and you have a measley $40K in cash???? You have not paid off your mortgage? WTF do you spend your $$ on? How can you not save a lot of $$ on an HHI of nearly $400K??

Consumer debt of $100K??? How do you do that? Big screen TVs for every room including all the bathrooms?

I live on a fraction of your HHI, and have a great life, no debt, one kid in private schools, great house in lovely area, take nice vacations every year, eat at nice restaurants, etc. How do I do it? I don't buy a lot of crap!! That's how I do it!!

BTW, I have no mortgage and more cash then you do on my pathetically (by comparison) small HHI. I'm rich compared with you!

OMG?! What?! What?! OMG!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you alternating drop-off and pick up? Is it really impossible for one spouse to do both? Could you maybe get one parking spot near daycare, and alternate that way? A couple at my daycare does this. In the morning, she takes the bus in, he takes the car, parks it near daycare, and metros to work. At night, she metros to daycare and takes the kids home in the car, and he rides the bus.

If you could do this, you could eliminate one car payment is parking, gas, and insurance.

As a family that alternates drop-off and pick up I will tell you that it is REALLY hard for 1 spouse to do both. And for this family the children are in different locations. So to drop off children 1 & 2 at daycare, child 3 at school and getting to work at a decent time and then leaving to do 2 pick ups is and get a full day of work in is close to impossible.

But - this family is also not willing to make any sacrifices (other than 2 children sharing a room) and only taking 1 vacation a year.

I'm the PP who suggested this. I actually do both the drop-off and pick-up at two different schools. It is hard, and it may be "mommy-tracking" me (because I simply can't work late), but it's one of the sacrifices my family makes to save money, which is why I suggested it.

But is it short sighted - that you are saving a few $ now vs the years of higher income?

Agreed. Had I mommy tracked myself I wouldn't be getting a 300k w2 this year. We also, and always have alternated drop off and pickups. Mainly to accommodate work schedules and minimize time in daycare.

So shortsighted to mommy track yourself. The higher I rise up the corporate ladder, the more flexible my job becomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. First of all, we are NOT in DC. We are not far from DC but do not have easy access to metro. Second, we have three kids in two different locations. Even with two cars, drop off and pickup from daycare / aftercare is stressful as can be and we often run right up to the 6pm deadline even when we leave at 5pm. Figuring out how to take public transport back and forth from two locations with Jobs just isn't realistic. So selling cars is not an option. It would be great if we could get by on one car. But we cannot.

We do run around a lot to activities in evenings and on weekends. We do not shop at Whole Foods as a PP suggested. Try giant, shoppers, and occasionally trader joes if we need RTH foods for an especially busy work week. We do tend to get carryout and some delivery 1-2x per week. We have a restaurant night one night per week. DH travels a lot for work so when he is away and I am flying solo with the kids doing two drop offs and pickups and working a 9-10 hr day, I do give myself the luxury of not having to cook an extra night.

We do have two elderly dogs in addition to the three kids. Dogs predate kids. So we have dog walking we pay for each month and extra expenses there for food.

Honestly, I am grateful to those who post helpful and positive comments instead of the "oh you shouldn't have had three kids and bought a house." Well thanks a frickin lot for those genius comments. What do we do? Give two kids up for adoption and live in a box down by the river?

We certainly are not going to sell our home, which is already too small, and move our kids into an even smaller apartment in a crappy school district in DC with even higher taxes!

So why are you asking for advice if you have it all figured out? I mean after all you only have 50k in credit cards! Just keep chargingb

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. First of all, we are NOT in DC. We are not far from DC but do not have easy access to metro. Second, we have three kids in two different locations. Even with two cars, drop off and pickup from daycare / aftercare is stressful as can be and we often run right up to the 6pm deadline even when we leave at 5pm. Figuring out how to take public transport back and forth from two locations with Jobs just isn't realistic. So selling cars is not an option. It would be great if we could get by on one car. But we cannot.

We do run around a lot to activities in evenings and on weekends. We do not shop at Whole Foods as a PP suggested. Try giant, shoppers, and occasionally trader joes if we need RTH foods for an especially busy work week. We do tend to get carryout and some delivery 1-2x per week. We have a restaurant night one night per week. DH travels a lot for work so when he is away and I am flying solo with the kids doing two drop offs and pickups and working a 9-10 hr day, I do give myself the luxury of not having to cook an extra night.

We do have two elderly dogs in addition to the three kids. Dogs predate kids. So we have dog walking we pay for each month and extra expenses there for food.

Honestly, I am grateful to those who post helpful and positive comments instead of the "oh you shouldn't have had three kids and bought a house." Well thanks a frickin lot for those genius comments. What do we do? Give two kids up for adoption and live in a box down by the river?

We certainly are not going to sell our home, which is already too small, and move our kids into an even smaller apartment in a crappy school district in DC with even higher taxes!

You refuse to do anything about your three largest expenses:

House - you refuse to move
Cars - you claim you require
Kids - like you said you can't give them up

I could have most of your debt paid off in two years. But then you're not me. You're entitled and have no ability to manager your finances. I would never use a credit card to finance maternity leave. But what's done is done. What's even worse is you refuse to make changes in your life and will always be behind.

[Anonymous]

Op,
You are running yourself ragged and spending money you don't have. Let me condense what you just wrote:

You drop off 2 kids at daycare, husband does one at school.
You work 9-10 hour days, barely making it home for the 6 on mark, then most days have to turn right around and take 3 small children, 2 of whom aren't even in elementary school yet, to "extra" activities that you can't afford, making it necessary to order out/take out twice a week on weeks your husband can help you with the running and racing around, up to 3x when you have to do this all by yourself, adding to the frantic pace and spending money you don't have.
You are so exhausted on the weekend you don't cook again and take 5 people out to eat, due in part to more activities you can't afford.

You are basically spending a TON of money on food you can't afford to get to the activities you can afford with time you don't have.

Won't you be so much happier to just come home after worn at 6 pm and enjoy family time and a decent meal?
And shop on the weekends instead of more activities.
I bet you spend 1k monthly on takeout, order in and restaurants.
Plus the activities on top of a young child in daycare 8-10 hours a day?
I bet it's closer to $1500 you are spending to do all that.

Can you see the circle you have created that you can stop?

[Anonymous]

"DH travels a lot for work so when he is away and I am flying solo with the kids doing two drop offs and pickups and working a 9-10 hr day, I do give myself the luxury of not having to cook an extra night.. "

This is why you are where you are. You keep making excuses for why you "NEED" to spend. 3 nights of delivery / restaurant night are 3 too many given your consumer debt.

Selling cars and purchasing a less expensive car is an option - you just do not want to do it.

There is no magic bullet - it is like losing weight. You need to make choices - do I eat less or exercise more?

Serious question: Why can't you spend Sunday making meals for the week? We make meatballs and pasta so that when we get home it is our back up. We also make a black bean dish and a tofu dish as well as have rice ready. This way when we get home at 6:20 with our 3 kids we can quickly get dinner on the table.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op,
You are running yourself ragged and spending money you don't have. Let me condense what you just wrote:

You drop off 2 kids at daycare, husband does one at school.
You work 9-10 hour days, barely making it home for the 6 on mark, then most days have to turn right around and take 3 small children, 2 of whom aren't even in elementary school yet, to "extra" activities that you can't afford, making it necessary to order out/take out twice a week on weeks your husband can help you with the running and racing around, up to 3x when you have to do this all by yourself, adding to the frantic pace and spending money you don't have.
You are so exhausted on the weekend you don't cook again and take 5 people out to eat, due in part to more activities you can't afford.

You are basically spending a TON of money on food you can't afford to get to the activities you can afford with time you don't have.

Won't you be so much happier to just come home after worn at 6 pm and enjoy family time and a decent meal?
And shop on the weekends instead of more activities.
I bet you spend 1k monthly on takeout, order in and restaurants.
Plus the activities on top of a young child in daycare 8-10 hours a day?
I bet it's closer to $1500 you are spending to do all that.

Can you see the circle you have created that you can stop?

Op refuses to make any changes

[Anonymous]

I read all 7 pages, and back on page 1, someone mentioned using mint.com and I suggested using Quicken. If I read the responses correctly, the OP is worried about banking information going on either of those sources? That doesn't make sense, both are secure options. You can see where your money is really going, and I suspect the OP isn't giving all the information that is needed for people to suggest options.

There are 3 bedroom apartments in this area for less than your mortgage.

Your husband needs to realize there are commuter options (the 95 express lanes that just expanded recently, and he could pick up slugs to get to DC) if you move further out. I have friends all over Prince William County, and they use the express lanes to get home and it saves them time nearly every weeknight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read all 7 pages, and back on page 1, someone mentioned using mint.com and I suggested using Quicken. If I read the responses correctly, the OP is worried about banking information going on either of those sources? That doesn't make sense, both are secure options. You can see where your money is really going, and I suspect the OP isn't giving all the information that is needed for people to suggest options.

There are 3 bedroom apartments in this area for less than your mortgage.

Your husband needs to realize there are commuter options (the 95 express lanes that just expanded recently, and he could pick up slugs to get to DC) if you move further out. I have friends all over Prince William County, and they use the express lanes to get home and it saves them time nearly every weeknight.

Given op's life requires two cars and a time sucking commute she needs to move to an apartment where they can use the metro. Maybe keep one car. It would save them probably 40k plus a year with the car, gas, parking and mortgage. But sounds like she refuses to move to a smaller place. Or sell any cars. Or really make any changes!

[Anonymous]

I am just stuck on the fact that 2 children in daycare barely getting home by 6pm are in activities after that.

Even if they were not in 50k of debt I don't get this.

And a family that eats out (restaurant, take out, order in, whatever) 3-4 times per week is bleeding a serious amount of cash.

It's fascinating to me how obvious this is to everyone but the OP.