Earning Well but Drowning in Debt...how to dig out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are your CC minimum payments?

My gut now (without seeing your budget, so with only limited info you have provided on this thread) would be to go down to one month expenses in your efund. This is your "baby efund" in Dave Ramsey speak. It is NOT a fully funded efund.

Take the rest of it and pay off the CCs as much as possible. Then take the minimum payments you WERE paying (this is your snowball) and put those on the CCs (higher interest rate ones first) until they are paid off. You can predict when that will be done but calculating it out. Say you can have all your cc debt paid off by June. Great. Then take the total minimum payments that you used to be paying (your snowball has now gotten larger) and apply that to your car loan with the higher interest rate. Snowball that loan and when it is paid off, roll that to your other car loan. By now your snowball should be very large and you will have all consumer debt paid off and you can roll the snowball to building your savings to getting a FFEF. 3, 4, 5, 6 months of full expenses. Whatever the number is that you feel you need. THEN you take your snowball and start paying down those student loans.

It is going to take a long time to pay the student loans off, and so you should build in to your budget a car replacement fund so you don't have to go in to debt when you need to replace your cars in the future.

I agree with this poster. Really good advice. OP, you can do this without selling your house, as others have recommended. Put a plan in place and accept that it will take you a full few years to get there. If the jobs are stable, your emergency fund can be lower for a bit until you can get the CC debt taken care of--that should be priority #1. Also, if you live in the district, see if there is a way to get yourself down to one car. We have only one car and it has saved us so much money. Occasionally, one of us needs to uber somewhere, but even a few times a week, uber is cheaper than a second a car. You can do this, PP. Don't get discouraged by the other posters.

I agree with this PP, too. Dave Ramsey would say to sell the cars and buy cheap beater cars (or maybe even no cars since you live in DC and can take public transportation), use MOST of that emergency fund to pay off the credit cards. Dave Ramsey would also say to stop contributing to your 401Ks for a little bit and use that to pay down the debt. But ONLY if you dramatically reduce your spending and the 401K money goes directly to paying down debt. Don't cut down on your 401Ks just to keep up your lifestyle.

Dave Ramsey would also say that you're in a big hole but you have a BIG shovel (your large income). Use that big income and those stable jobs. Buckle down for a couple of years and you can get out of debt. You really can. You shouldlisten to Dave on a podcast to get some inspiration as well as read his books. Will keep you company while you take public transportation after you sell those expensive cars

Don't sell your house - your mortgage isn't crazy given your income when you take the other debt out of the picture. But DON'T buy a new house, for god's sake. The transaction costs alone would kill you. We've got a $900K budget to buy a new house and that much house will be $30K in closing costs alone. You can't afford that right now.

One other thing - day care costs should not last more than 3 years. You're in DC so you should be able to get public PK3 and PK4 for your kids which is a HUGE benefit compared to other places that don't have school until K. Tackle that debt now and then as the kids age out of day care, use the day care money to pay off debt. Can you send the kids to grandparents in the summer instead of camp? Or have grandparents come stay for a week and hang out with kids? We do that and it's a win/win - saves money and kids get to spend time with grandparents.

[Anonymous]

OP, multiple people have suggested here that you use any one of a number of methods to start analyzing your spending to figure out where you can cut back and then set a budget for yourselves. In all of the hours since those suggestions started, have you made any effort to do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your three kids are in daycare, why do you need summer camp?

She said she had 2 in daycare in the OP, but has 3 kids (mentioned 3 car seats) so I am guessing the camp is for one child.

Unless this is a troll who can't keep her story straight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Not looking for a scolding but for advice. Ran up a lot of credit card debt on three maternity leaves that were largely unpaid - hard to pay daycare for two kids while on unpaid leave with a third. And we had to do that or else we would lose our spots. Plus the student loan debt. We have two Hondas 2012 and 2013. Minivan and SUV. Before that I was driving a 2001 Toyota that wouldn't fit three carsears so I had to sell it. Had it over 10 years. We cannot go down to one car because due to our work schedules DH and I alternate drop off and pickup from daycare and aftercare. We do not live in a huge home. In fact, we need a bigger house desperately. Our kids are doubled up in rooms and we are bursting at the seams. Same rowhouse we lived in when we got engaged! Mortgage is $3400/month. Student loans are $1500/month. Credit card bills. Car payments. Daycare and aftercare is $2450/month. We cannot get a nanny for an equivalent price (legally, anyway). I am a fed and the lack of pay increases hasn't helped. But at least job is stable. We do not take luxury vacations and rent expensive homes or take fancy trips. We go to the beach and stay with family. I hardly ever buy clothes and when I do it's at Target/TJ Max or even eBay. I buy kids clothes on eBay or at Target or old navy sale.

The thing is that we definitely aren't living the high life by any means. Our home is very modest and not suitable for the size of our family. Our vacations are budget vacations. Now I am dreading having to pay for summer camps for the older two kids. $450/week per kid for 10 weeks. Ugh.

The kids do a lot of activities. Music together. dance lessons. Soccer. Music lessons.

Wait, here you say you have to pay for summer camp for the 2 older kids but in your OP you said you have 2 kids in daycare.

What is this about?

[Anonymous]

Honestly OP, your comment about how your kids have to share a room and you "desperately" need a new house and are "busting at the seams" tells a lot about your mentality and how you need to revamp your entire way of thinking to make this work.

You are almost 900k in debt right?

250 student loan
50 credit card
Maybe $600k on your mortgage? Since you probably bought for $700k with little down and have had what, 5 years?

Think about it. $900k in debt.
You don't desperately need anything except paying it down.
I'm sorry to be so direct but you really need to reshape how you live and relate to money and spending in general

[Anonymous]

OP the good news is that you and your dh are intelligent, educated and employed. Presumably you two and your kids are healthy.

You can change your financial lives. You already are holding so many cards, you just have to choose to dig out of the hole.

It is very likely that your children will qualify for no financial aid for college beyond loans. You and your husband must be pretty highly educated, and it will cost your children exponentially more to be educated because higher ed costs have increased so much more than inflation.

You guys can make hard choices now and reap the benefits later. Your kids don't need music class, smithsonian camps or their own bedrooms, they need you guys to not be stressed and overextended financially.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP the good news is that you and your dh are intelligent, educated and employed

Educated and intelligent aren't mutually inclusive.

[Anonymous]

I'm enjoying this thread because our stats are very similar to OPs, but we have no issue living at that amount.

Our HH1 and loan payments are the same. We have 2 kids in preschool/aftercare. Yet, we saved $70k last year. Our mortgage for a 4b house in Rockville is $3k a month. We have a 2011 Honda (for the 3 rows) and a second smaller car. And we splurged on an international vacation last year.

Something doesn't add up. Your larger expenses do add up, but you must have other small/medium expenses that are also adding up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Not looking for a scolding but for advice. Ran up a lot of credit card debt on three maternity leaves that were largely unpaid - hard to pay daycare for two kids while on unpaid leave with a third. And we had to do that or else we would lose our spots. Plus the student loan debt. We have two Hondas 2012 and 2013. Minivan and SUV. Before that I was driving a 2001 Toyota that wouldn't fit three carsears so I had to sell it. Had it over 10 years. We cannot go down to one car because due to our work schedules DH and I alternate drop off and pickup from daycare and aftercare. We do not live in a huge home. In fact, we need a bigger house desperately. Our kids are doubled up in rooms and we are bursting at the seams. Same rowhouse we lived in when we got engaged! Mortgage is $3400/month. Student loans are $1500/month. Credit card bills. Car payments. Daycare and aftercare is $2450/month. We cannot get a nanny for an equivalent price (legally, anyway). I am a fed and the lack of pay increases hasn't helped. But at least job is stable. We do not take luxury vacations and rent expensive homes or take fancy trips. We go to the beach and stay with family. I hardly ever buy clothes and when I do it's at Target/TJ Max or even eBay. I buy kids clothes on eBay or at Target or old navy sale.

The thing is that we definitely aren't living the high life by any means. Our home is very modest and not suitable for the size of our family. Our vacations are budget vacations. Now I am dreading having to pay for summer camps for the older two kids. $450/week per kid for 10 weeks. Ugh.

The kids do a lot of activities. Music together. dance lessons. Soccer. Music lessons.

You need to go into crunch mode for the next twelve months and then see how you are doing.
1) No more than one activity per kid. No need for music/dance lessons or Music Together for the next year. Luxury Item- if you "must" have them have a relative give them to your child's for the birthday. Soccer is cheap. Plenty of free or nearly free activites.
2) Summer at the Y will not be horrible. It is one summer.
3) If you both work for the Feds and you live in the Distrcit in a row house, you can take public transportation. No need for two cars- you might not need one car. Crunch mode!
4) Your house is large enough- pare down, children do not need their own bedrooms especially if you have that much debt. Better spent paying off debt and then saving for college.
5) Do the David Ramsey thing. Now.
6) Crunch mode for one year means not going out to eat. No lunches no dinners. Plan dinners and lunches ahead. Google frugal dinners - savings will abound.
7) Plenty of free stuff to do in the city - no spending for entertainment.
8) no new clothes for you or DH for a year. Rummage sales, yard sales, thrift shops for children's clothes. Only "splurge" on children's shoes.
9) No gym members ships or other club memberships.
10) Cut up the credit cards- you can't handle them.
11) No vacations except to visit drivable family
12) Stop blaming the area, you make more than enough. Look in the mirror and learn about finances.

I agree with this. Except I would do two separate driving-to-see-family vacations: mom takes a week and dad takes a week. That gets you two weeks where you don't have to pay for camp. If you have more PTO, take more weeks, but stagger them. No joint vacations until the debt is paid off.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you both are driving to work since you need 2 cars to alternate pick up and drop off. You do realize that you are both feds - so you get a transit benefit (i.e. free metrocard) but you pay for your own parking.

Have you even tried to cut back at all? I don't know anyplace in the city where you can park for less than $10/day - likely more. $10/day is $50/week or $2500 a yr over 50 weeks. There's really no way ONE of you can do this for ONE year?

Also, where are you shopping. Given your expenditures, I'm thinking you're an organic/Whole Foods for every thing family. Is that true? Can you cut back there? What does the eating out look like?

[Anonymous]

Why are you alternating drop-off and pick up? Is it really impossible for one spouse to do both? Could you maybe get one parking spot near daycare, and alternate that way? A couple at my daycare does this. In the morning, she takes the bus in, he takes the car, parks it near daycare, and metros to work. At night, she metros to daycare and takes the kids home in the car, and he rides the bus.

If you could do this, you could eliminate one car payment is parking, gas, and insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are you alternating drop-off and pick up? Is it really impossible for one spouse to do both? Could you maybe get one parking spot near daycare, and alternate that way? A couple at my daycare does this. In the morning, she takes the bus in, he takes the car, parks it near daycare, and metros to work. At night, she metros to daycare and takes the kids home in the car, and he rides the bus.

If you could do this, you could eliminate one car payment is parking, gas, and insurance.

As a family that alternates drop-off and pick up I will tell you that it is REALLY hard for 1 spouse to do both. And for this family the children are in different locations. So to drop off children 1 & 2 at daycare, child 3 at school and getting to work at a decent time and then leaving to do 2 pick ups is and get a full day of work in is close to impossible.

But - this family is also not willing to make any sacrifices (other than 2 children sharing a room) and only taking 1 vacation a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you alternating drop-off and pick up? Is it really impossible for one spouse to do both? Could you maybe get one parking spot near daycare, and alternate that way? A couple at my daycare does this. In the morning, she takes the bus in, he takes the car, parks it near daycare, and metros to work. At night, she metros to daycare and takes the kids home in the car, and he rides the bus.

If you could do this, you could eliminate one car payment is parking, gas, and insurance.

As a family that alternates drop-off and pick up I will tell you that it is REALLY hard for 1 spouse to do both. And for this family the children are in different locations. So to drop off children 1 & 2 at daycare, child 3 at school and getting to work at a decent time and then leaving to do 2 pick ups is and get a full day of work in is close to impossible.

But - this family is also not willing to make any sacrifices (other than 2 children sharing a room) and only taking 1 vacation a year.

I'm the PP who suggested this. I actually do both the drop-off and pick-up at two different schools. It is hard, and it may be "mommy-tracking" me (because I simply can't work late), but it's one of the sacrifices my family makes to save money, which is why I suggested it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you alternating drop-off and pick up? Is it really impossible for one spouse to do both? Could you maybe get one parking spot near daycare, and alternate that way? A couple at my daycare does this. In the morning, she takes the bus in, he takes the car, parks it near daycare, and metros to work. At night, she metros to daycare and takes the kids home in the car, and he rides the bus.

If you could do this, you could eliminate one car payment is parking, gas, and insurance.

As a family that alternates drop-off and pick up I will tell you that it is REALLY hard for 1 spouse to do both. And for this family the children are in different locations. So to drop off children 1 & 2 at daycare, child 3 at school and getting to work at a decent time and then leaving to do 2 pick ups is and get a full day of work in is close to impossible.

But - this family is also not willing to make any sacrifices (other than 2 children sharing a room) and only taking 1 vacation a year.

I'm the PP who suggested this. I actually do both the drop-off and pick-up at two different schools. It is hard, and it may be "mommy-tracking" me (because I simply can't work late), but it's one of the sacrifices my family makes to save money, which is why I suggested it.

But is it short sighted - that you are saving a few $ now vs the years of higher income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are you alternating drop-off and pick up? Is it really impossible for one spouse to do both? Could you maybe get one parking spot near daycare, and alternate that way? A couple at my daycare does this. In the morning, she takes the bus in, he takes the car, parks it near daycare, and metros to work. At night, she metros to daycare and takes the kids home in the car, and he rides the bus.

If you could do this, you could eliminate one car payment is parking, gas, and insurance.

As a family that alternates drop-off and pick up I will tell you that it is REALLY hard for 1 spouse to do both. And for this family the children are in different locations. So to drop off children 1 & 2 at daycare, child 3 at school and getting to work at a decent time and then leaving to do 2 pick ups is and get a full day of work in is close to impossible.

But - this family is also not willing to make any sacrifices (other than 2 children sharing a room) and only taking 1 vacation a year.

I'm the PP who suggested this. I actually do both the drop-off and pick-up at two different schools. It is hard, and it may be "mommy-tracking" me (because I simply can't work late), but it's one of the sacrifices my family makes to save money, which is why I suggested it.

But is it short sighted - that you are saving a few $ now vs the years of higher income?

The OP and her DH work for the Government. I don't foresee huge differences income.