So which holy book do peaceful Muslims follow?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People can follow whatever religion they want. But when it is political ideology and being forced on everyone in the country that is completely different. It is not a religion anymore. And needs to be treated very differently. Not benign. but actively managed and eliminated like a cancer.

OK, you're referring to the fact that in Islam there is no separation of church/mosque and state, as there is in most other religions (Christ: render unto Caesar what is due Caesar and unto God what is due God).

That's very different from the issue of whether Islam is inherently malignant, as you also say above. I've posted earlier that you can find peace and war in the Quran (I've read it, but I bet you have not). It's bigoted to say or imply that all Muslims follow only the aggressive verses in the Quran. Most don't.

Then you might want to differentiate yourself from them, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“Through ceaseless proselytizing and subtle pressure tactics, Al-Huda has brought a majority of my university’s students under the burqa,” Pervez Hoodbhoy previously wrote. “In comparison with my students of earlier decades, they are less confident, less willing to ask questions in class, and most have become silent note-takers. To sing, dance, play sports or act in dramas is, of course, out of the question for these unfortunates.”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2616776/tashfeen-malik-attended-al-huda-islamic-school-that-has-branches-in-u-s-and-canada/#WdHCU4dWXq1gqA82.99

Hoodbhoy: On the scale of human history, the Enlightenment is a very recent phenomenon, barely four hundred years old. One must be hopeful that Muslims will catch up. The real question is how to shake off the dead hand of tradition. The answer lies in doing away with an educational system that discourages questioning and stresses obedience. Reform in the Muslim world will have to begin here. At the core of this problem, lies the tyranny that teachers exert over their students. In Urdu, we say that the teacher is not just a teacher—he is also your father. But in our culture, fathers are considered all-wise, which means that teachers cannot be questioned.

http://www.meforum.org/2593/pervez-amirali-hoodbhoy-islam-science

Islam is NOT a religion. It is a political system that does not recognize ANY wall, any separation between government and religion.

Please. As long as there's an element of faith (God sent the Quran, ISIS' ridiculous millenarian beliefs) then it's a religion too. You're right that government and religion are more intermingled in Islam than in other faiths. But you said it yourself: religion is in the mix.

well you missed the point then.

anyone that believes in devils in the desert is free to do so to their hearts content.

But when they come bearing swords and force you to follow their own devils, then it has ceased to have any meaning, it has jumped from a religion of men into a perversion of witches and terrorism.

Islam is a modern day evil. Better us to confront it than our children.

Well that's BS. Every political movement has an ideology, a rational for doing good or evil. ISIS is a supremacist millenarian movement, sure. But where does their rationale and millenarian stuff come from? From a selective and biased reading of their religion.

Also: Islam has some good aspects too. ISIS chooses not to see them, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Don't be a bigot.

People can follow whatever religion they want. But when it is political ideology and being forced on everyone in the country that is completely different. It is not a religion anymore. And needs to be treated very differently. Not benign. but actively managed and eliminated like a cancer.

Exactly. You can't force faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The New Testament is full of sayings from Jesus like this one: "



PS. Atheists telling believers what they're supposed to believe always makes me roll my eyes like the emoticon above. If you don't know anything about a particular faith and you aren't inclined to do even minimal studying, then your *opinions* are basically useless. Sorry!

Quote didn't carry over. Am on tenterhooks.

It is also very annoying when the Islam haters tell the Muslims what they are supposed to believe or how they are supposed to act.

Many atheists are more knowledgeable about religion b/c they were raised in a faith that they questioned. So they did their research and found the flaws, which is all very logical. I'd rather speak to someone who's smart enough to read a book while analyzing the context of the time period during which it was written.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For your reading pleasure and edification, and because you atheists keep getting it wrong, and because you've derailed the thread anyway with your "pick and choose" malarkey...

Here's another instance of Jesus clearly and specifically counteracting parts of Old Testament:

"You have heard it said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39).

There are many contradictions in the Bible -- as atheists know, just as well as,if not better than, Christians. Many atheists were once Christians and became atheist in the process of reading the Bible carefully.

No good answer to what's above, huh?

If only you knew as much about Christianity and Islam as you think you do. Seriously. Unfortunately for us, what you lack in knowledge you more than compensate for with arrogance. (And if you're that rabid ex-Catholic who posts here 24/7, you seem unhinged, sadly.)

Ad-hominem attacks are never very effective, and often show the accuser's own weaknesses.

You're the "rabid" ex-Catholic hater b/c you post the same tired line assuming that there's ONLY ONE ex-Catholic responding.

Dumb is forever dumb, eh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God: kill your son
Abraham: uh...ok
God: holy shit I'm jk
Abraham: umm...
God: I'll probably kill mine tho lol
Abraham: wtf?

LOL!!

Do some more pls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
“Through ceaseless proselytizing and subtle pressure tactics, Al-Huda has brought a majority of my university’s students under the burqa,” Pervez Hoodbhoy previously wrote. “In comparison with my students of earlier decades, they are less confident, less willing to ask questions in class, and most have become silent note-takers. To sing, dance, play sports or act in dramas is, of course, out of the question for these unfortunates.”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2616776/tashfeen-malik-attended-al-huda-islamic-school-that-has-branches-in-u-s-and-canada/#WdHCU4dWXq1gqA82.99

Hoodbhoy: On the scale of human history, the Enlightenment is a very recent phenomenon, barely four hundred years old. One must be hopeful that Muslims will catch up. The real question is how to shake off the dead hand of tradition. The answer lies in doing away with an educational system that discourages questioning and stresses obedience. Reform in the Muslim world will have to begin here. At the core of this problem, lies the tyranny that teachers exert over their students. In Urdu, we say that the teacher is not just a teacher—he is also your father. But in our culture, fathers are considered all-wise, which means that teachers cannot be questioned.

http://www.meforum.org/2593/pervez-amirali-hoodbhoy-islam-science

Islam is NOT a religion. It is a political system that does not recognize ANY wall, any separation between government and religion.

Please. As long as there's an element of faith (God sent the Quran, ISIS' ridiculous millenarian beliefs) then it's a religion too. You're right that government and religion are more intermingled in Islam than in other faiths. But you said it yourself: religion is in the mix.

well you missed the point then.

anyone that believes in devils in the desert is free to do so to their hearts content.

But when they come bearing swords and force you to follow their own devils, then it has ceased to have any meaning, it has jumped from a religion of men into a perversion of witches and terrorism.

Islam is a modern day evil. Better us to confront it than our children.

Well that's BS. Every political movement has an ideology, a rational for doing good or evil. ISIS is a supremacist millenarian movement, sure. But where does their rationale and millenarian stuff come from? From a selective and biased reading of their religion.

Also: Islam has some good aspects too. ISIS chooses not to see them, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Don't be a bigot.

People can follow whatever religion they want. But when it is political ideology and being forced on everyone in the country that is completely different. It is not a religion anymore. And needs to be treated very differently. Not benign. but actively managed and eliminated like a cancer.

Exactly. You can't force faith.

And so the Quran acknowledges. "There is no compulsion in religion." ISIS and other Islamist supremacist groups appear to have overlooked this verse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People can follow whatever religion they want. But when it is political ideology and being forced on everyone in the country that is completely different. It is not a religion anymore. And needs to be treated very differently. Not benign. but actively managed and eliminated like a cancer.

OK, you're referring to the fact that in Islam there is no separation of church/mosque and state, as there is in most other religions (Christ: render unto Caesar what is due Caesar and unto God what is due God).

That's very different from the issue of whether Islam is inherently malignant, as you also say above. I've posted earlier that you can find peace and war in the Quran (I've read it, but I bet you have not). It's bigoted to say or imply that all Muslims follow only the aggressive verses in the Quran. Most don't.

Then you might want to differentiate yourself from them, no?

I'm not Muslim. I just happen to have read a lot more widely than the anti-Muslim and anti-Christian bigots on this thread. Sad that so many of you can't back up your knee-jerk hatreds with actual knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The New Testament is full of sayings from Jesus like this one: "



PS. Atheists telling believers what they're supposed to believe always makes me roll my eyes like the emoticon above. If you don't know anything about a particular faith and you aren't inclined to do even minimal studying, then your *opinions* are basically useless. Sorry!

Quote didn't carry over. Am on tenterhooks.

It is also very annoying when the Islam haters tell the Muslims what they are supposed to believe or how they are supposed to act.

Many atheists are more knowledgeable about religion b/c they were raised in a faith that they questioned. So they did their research and found the flaws, which is all very logical. I'd rather speak to someone who's smart enough to read a book while analyzing the context of the time period during which it was written.

Too bad that's not true on DCUM. Many of you atheists (not all! there are some thoughtful atheists here!) demonstrate on a daily basis that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Not one single clue what you're talking about, and it comes out daily--sometimes hourly--that many of you are appalingly ignorant about the religions you criticize. I'm not talking about accepting stuff as "true" or not, but more like your ignorance of the most basic facts of which tenets the different religions follow.

Some of you are clearly going, not on logic, but on emotions and gut hatreds.

Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The New Testament is full of sayings from Jesus like this one: "



PS. Atheists telling believers what they're supposed to believe always makes me roll my eyes like the emoticon above. If you don't know anything about a particular faith and you aren't inclined to do even minimal studying, then your *opinions* are basically useless. Sorry!

Quote didn't carry over. Am on tenterhooks.

It is also very annoying when the Islam haters tell the Muslims what they are supposed to believe or how they are supposed to act.

Many atheists are more knowledgeable about religion b/c they were raised in a faith that they questioned. So they did their research and found the flaws, which is all very logical. I'd rather speak to someone who's smart enough to read a book while analyzing the context of the time period during which it was written.

Too bad that's not true on DCUM. Many of you atheists (not all! there are some thoughtful atheists here!) demonstrate on a daily basis that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Not one single clue what you're talking about, and it comes out daily--sometimes hourly--that many of you are appalingly ignorant about the religions you criticize. I'm not talking about accepting stuff as "true" or not, but more like your ignorance of the most basic facts of which tenets the different religions follow.

Some of you are clearly going, not on logic, but on emotions and gut hatreds.

Yuck.[/quote

Religious tenets are not facts. Atheists argue using facts. There are contradictions in the bible - fact. Virgins - w/o medical technology - cannot have babies - fact. There is no scientific evidence to prove Christ was resurrected. There's little evidence - outside of the bible - that proves Christ even existed. And there are many pagan stories that mirror Christ's - fact.

facts versus beliefs

How different is a belief in the Greek gods? It's all the same. Furthermore, we study Greek myths in literature courses in order to understand how they play a role in allusions. same can be said for the bible - literary

Herodotus himself claims Greek gods were taken from the Egyptians.

When you don't have the scientific measures to understand your world, you create stories. These stories from different cultures share common threads. Jesus is no different.


and yuck? What kind of mature response is that? You claim atheists are ignorant, yet you respond with "yuck."

[Anonymous]

corrected the formatting

Many atheists are more knowledgeable about religion b/c they were raised in a faith that they questioned. So they did their research and found the flaws, which is all very logical. I'd rather speak to someone who's smart enough to read a book while analyzing the context of the time period during which it was written.

Too bad that's not true on DCUM. Many of you atheists (not all! there are some thoughtful atheists here!) demonstrate on a daily basis that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Not one single clue what you're talking about, and it comes out daily--sometimes hourly--that many of you are appalingly ignorant about the religions you criticize. I'm not talking about accepting stuff as "true" or not, but more like your ignorance of the most basic facts of which tenets the different religions follow.

Some of you are clearly going, not on logic, but on emotions and gut hatreds.

Yuck.

Religious tenets are not facts. Atheists argue using facts. There are contradictions in the bible - fact. Virgins - w/o medical technology - cannot have babies - fact. There is no scientific evidence to prove Christ was resurrected. There's little evidence - outside of the bible - that proves Christ even existed. And there are many pagan stories that mirror Christ's - fact.

facts versus beliefs

How different is a belief in the Greek gods? It's all the same. Furthermore, we study Greek myths in literature courses in order to understand how they play a role in allusions. same can be said for the bible - literary references

Herodotus himself claims Greek gods were taken from the Egyptians.

When you don't have the scientific measures to understand your world, you create stories. These stories from different cultures share common threads. Jesus is no different.


and yuck? What kind of mature response is that? You claim atheists are ignorant, yet you respond with "yuck."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:corrected the formatting

Many atheists are more knowledgeable about religion b/c they were raised in a faith that they questioned. So they did their research and found the flaws, which is all very logical. I'd rather speak to someone who's smart enough to read a book while analyzing the context of the time period during which it was written.

Too bad that's not true on DCUM. Many of you atheists (not all! there are some thoughtful atheists here!) demonstrate on a daily basis that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Not one single clue what you're talking about, and it comes out daily--sometimes hourly--that many of you are appalingly ignorant about the religions you criticize. I'm not talking about accepting stuff as "true" or not, but more like your ignorance of the most basic facts of which tenets the different religions follow.

Some of you are clearly going, not on logic, but on emotions and gut hatreds.

Yuck.

Religious tenets are not facts. Atheists argue using facts. There are contradictions in the bible - fact. Virgins - w/o medical technology - cannot have babies - fact. There is no scientific evidence to prove Christ was resurrected. There's little evidence - outside of the bible - that proves Christ even existed. And there are many pagan stories that mirror Christ's - fact.

facts versus beliefs

How different is a belief in the Greek gods? It's all the same. Furthermore, we study Greek myths in literature courses in order to understand how they play a role in allusions. same can be said for the bible - literary references

Herodotus himself claims Greek gods were taken from the Egyptians.

When you don't have the scientific measures to understand your world, you create stories. These stories from different cultures share common threads. Jesus is no different.


and yuck? What kind of mature response is that? You claim atheists are ignorant, yet you respond with "yuck."

These statements are superficial. We don't study Greek myths to understand allusions. Allusions to Greek myths appear in literature because they provide insight into the human condition and are a kind of shorthand for those insights. The myths also provide information on the thought and cultural mores of an ancient civilization which provides the foundation for western culture and learning. Similar insights are true of the Bible, whether one believes the stories or not.

Can't get the point about Herodotus. So what if the Greeks borrowed gods from the Egyptians? But scholars in any case do not agree with his premise--the nature of ancient polytheism s to attribute a god to major natural manifestations like the sun, moon, and the wind or to important cultural values like fertility or war, so one would expect some similarities among gods. And Demeter has way more in common with Inanna/Ishtar than with any Egyptian god or goddess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Koran has some horrific recommendations that aren't peaceful. Do the peaceful Muslims have a different holy book they aspire to live by?

Your question isn't very nice and says more about you than about Islam. Why pick a fight?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God: kill your son
Abraham: uh...ok
God: holy shit I'm jk
Abraham: umm...
God: I'll probably kill mine tho lol
Abraham: wtf?

I am a faithful Christian and literally LOLed at this.

(Bonus points for recognizing the sacrifice of Isaac as foreshadowing the Crucifixion (God becoming man and making a sacrifice Abraham was not required to make)). It was also a contrast with Israel's neighbors, who did practice human sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:corrected the formatting

Many atheists are more knowledgeable about religion b/c they were raised in a faith that they questioned. So they did their research and found the flaws, which is all very logical. I'd rather speak to someone who's smart enough to read a book while analyzing the context of the time period during which it was written.

Too bad that's not true on DCUM. Many of you atheists (not all! there are some thoughtful atheists here!) demonstrate on a daily basis that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Not one single clue what you're talking about, and it comes out daily--sometimes hourly--that many of you are appalingly ignorant about the religions you criticize. I'm not talking about accepting stuff as "true" or not, but more like your ignorance of the most basic facts of which tenets the different religions follow.

Some of you are clearly going, not on logic, but on emotions and gut hatreds.

Yuck.

Religious tenets are not facts. Atheists argue using facts. There are contradictions in the bible - fact. Virgins - w/o medical technology - cannot have babies - fact. There is no scientific evidence to prove Christ was resurrected. There's little evidence - outside of the bible - that proves Christ even existed. And there are many pagan stories that mirror Christ's - fact.

facts versus beliefs

How different is a belief in the Greek gods? It's all the same. Furthermore, we study Greek myths in literature courses in order to understand how they play a role in allusions. same can be said for the bible - literary references

Herodotus himself claims Greek gods were taken from the Egyptians.

When you don't have the scientific measures to understand your world, you create stories. These stories from different cultures share common threads. Jesus is no different.


and yuck? What kind of mature response is that? You claim atheists are ignorant, yet you respond with "yuck."

I'm the poster at the top, the one who said "yuck." I stand by my "yuck" because you're an ignorant, emotion-driven bigot.

21:57 did a good job pointing out the superficiality and tangents in your post.

Let me add that the distinction between "fact" and "faith" is clearly lost on you. *Fact* is what you get in a comparative religion class, it's the *facts* about world religions' tenets, and the teacher never demands that you have "faith" in all of them. For example, it's a *fact* that many Jews keep kosher, it's a *fact* that Christians take communion, and it's a *fact* that Muslims pray five times a day. That's elementary stuff. Going deeper, one can source these *facts* to specific passages in the Hebrew Bible, New Testament, and Quran. The discussion here, when it manages to rise above your drivel, has been about text (i.e. *facts*} and interpretation. Nobody, but nobody, is asking you to believe in the texts, my precious petal. We are, however, asking you to have a basic familiarity with the *facts* of what the various texts say, so you can contribute to an intelligent discussion of the *facts.*

But you don't have even the most basic knowledge about comparative religions. Which is why your contributions to this thread are superficial. With the result, frankly, that your contributions are driven by emotions and knee-jerk bigotry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP. In case you don't know, the Bible is significantly more violent and sexist than the Quran.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/12/05/christians-hilariously-criticize-bible-after-reading-verses-they-think-are-from-the-quran-video/

"The number of cruel or violent passages in the Quran amounted to 532 or just over 8 percent of the book. The Bible contains 1,318 such passages which amounts to around 4 percent of the book. Of course, the Bible is also a bigger book that contains about 25,000 more verses than the Quran does. In short, the Bible contains more violence than the Quran."

But you should watch this video:

That's the Old Testament. Don't know how many times a week somebody has to point out to one of you atheists that Jesus was pretty solidly against violence to others.

Exactly. When Jesus was crucified, alllllll the old rules and regulations were nailed to the cross (not 10 commandments). No more stoning etc. Just love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, etc. True Christianity is extremely passive and nonviolent. There's no violence in the gospel.