So which holy book do peaceful Muslims follow?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:corrected the formatting

Many atheists are more knowledgeable about religion b/c they were raised in a faith that they questioned. So they did their research and found the flaws, which is all very logical. I'd rather speak to someone who's smart enough to read a book while analyzing the context of the time period during which it was written.

Too bad that's not true on DCUM. Many of you atheists (not all! there are some thoughtful atheists here!) demonstrate on a daily basis that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. Not one single clue what you're talking about, and it comes out daily--sometimes hourly--that many of you are appalingly ignorant about the religions you criticize. I'm not talking about accepting stuff as "true" or not, but more like your ignorance of the most basic facts of which tenets the different religions follow.

Some of you are clearly going, not on logic, but on emotions and gut hatreds.

Yuck.

Religious tenets are not facts. Atheists argue using facts. There are contradictions in the bible - fact. Virgins - w/o medical technology - cannot have babies - fact. There is no scientific evidence to prove Christ was resurrected. There's little evidence - outside of the bible - that proves Christ even existed. And there are many pagan stories that mirror Christ's - fact.

facts versus beliefs

How different is a belief in the Greek gods? It's all the same. Furthermore, we study Greek myths in literature courses in order to understand how they play a role in allusions. same can be said for the bible - literary references

Herodotus himself claims Greek gods were taken from the Egyptians.

When you don't have the scientific measures to understand your world, you create stories. These stories from different cultures share common threads. Jesus is no different.


and yuck? What kind of mature response is that? You claim atheists are ignorant, yet you respond with "yuck."

I'm the poster at the top, the one who said "yuck." I stand by my "yuck" because you're an ignorant, emotion-driven bigot.

21:57 did a good job pointing out the superficiality and tangents in your post.

Let me add that the distinction between "fact" and "faith" is clearly lost on you. *Fact* is what you get in a comparative religion class, it's the *facts* about world religions' tenets, and the teacher never demands that you have "faith" in all of them. For example, it's a *fact* that many Jews keep kosher, it's a *fact* that Christians take communion, and it's a *fact* that Muslims pray five times a day. That's elementary stuff. Going deeper, one can source these *facts* to specific passages in the Hebrew Bible, New Testament, and Quran. The discussion here, when it manages to rise above your drivel, has been about text (i.e. *facts*} and interpretation. Nobody, but nobody, is asking you to believe in the texts, my precious petal. We are, however, asking you to have a basic familiarity with the *facts* of what the various texts say, so you can contribute to an intelligent discussion of the *facts.*

But you don't have even the most basic knowledge about comparative religions. Which is why your contributions to this thread are superficial. With the result, frankly, that your contributions are driven by emotions and knee-jerk bigotry.

Let's try this again so that you and your poster friend can "get it." (However, I'll be talking to a wall, I'm sure.)

Ok - fact - Some Jews are kosher. Some Muslims stick to Halal dietary restrictions. Seventh Day adherents also follow dietary rules stemming from the Old Testament.

fact in that these are practices only - There is no scientific data found in the bible to support these eating habits. Now, I will add that Seventh Day followers do eat healthy foods and tend to live longer lives. THAT'S a fact based on a study.

The dietary laws stemming from the OT, however, were based on cultural habits. For example, for the most part, those animals that were socially acceptable were also chosen for meals. However, interestingly enough, the pig was domesticated yet is considered unclean. But why BORE you with facts?

And you're asking about Herodicus? Herodicus claimed that Greek gods were taken from the Egyptian - or "stolen." same is true for the Romans

Zeus is Jupiter. Hera is Juno. Heracles is Hercules. If you take control over an empire or a country or a village, you will "steal" parts of their cultural identity.

I fail to see how my posts are filled with drivel when you can't even find one primary source to support your "facts."

And we do indeed study Greek and Roman myths and biblical stories to understand the FULL meaning of a text. Shakespeare was a master at including allusions. Yes, they shed insight into human behavior. But they are STORIES within stories. So, in essence, what you're stating is that you believe Zeus was real, yes? Do you fear his wrath on stormy days?

And these myths were used to indoctrinate the illiterate masses. Medieval pageants were brought to the people as a way to reenact their idea of "history." Greek plays were didactic. They were meant to instruct (indoctrinate) and entertain.

Furthermore, moving from a polytheistic society to a monotheistic society was a smart political move, as people were easier to control under one rule. It was a way to consolidate power. The early Jews were polytheistic! Commandment #1 - You shall have no other gods before me.

Now, why would God - who has no beginning and no end - suddenly step in and say this? "Poof! Begone false gods!"

And . . . if you're really interested, you could do some research on the similarities btw Marduk (patron deity of Babylon, leader over lesser gods) AND Yhwh. And yes, Marduk is in the bible in Jeremiah 50:2:

"Announce and proclaim among the nations, lift up a banner and proclaim it; keep nothing back, but say, 'Babylon will be captured; Bel will be put to shame, Marduk filled with terror. Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror.'

But why waste my breath on you with silly facts.

Please feel free, however, to pray for my soul b/c obviously facts will send me to hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP. In case you don't know, the Bible is significantly more violent and sexist than the Quran.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/12/05/christians-hilariously-criticize-bible-after-reading-verses-they-think-are-from-the-quran-video/

"The number of cruel or violent passages in the Quran amounted to 532 or just over 8 percent of the book. The Bible contains 1,318 such passages which amounts to around 4 percent of the book. Of course, the Bible is also a bigger book that contains about 25,000 more verses than the Quran does. In short, the Bible contains more violence than the Quran."

But you should watch this video:

That's the Old Testament. Don't know how many times a week somebody has to point out to one of you atheists that Jesus was pretty solidly against violence to others.

Exactly. When Jesus was crucified, alllllll the old rules and regulations were nailed to the cross (not 10 commandments). No more stoning etc. Just love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, etc. True Christianity is extremely passive and nonviolent. There's no violence in the gospel.

So it took this Jesus to tell the world that his father was actually a pretty nice fellow. He threw aside his violent history - found in the OT - in order to create a softer side of his father. How convenient!

a true Deus ex machina!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, OP. In case you don't know, the Bible is significantly more violent and sexist than the Quran.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/12/05/christians-hilariously-criticize-bible-after-reading-verses-they-think-are-from-the-quran-video/

"The number of cruel or violent passages in the Quran amounted to 532 or just over 8 percent of the book. The Bible contains 1,318 such passages which amounts to around 4 percent of the book. Of course, the Bible is also a bigger book that contains about 25,000 more verses than the Quran does. In short, the Bible contains more violence than the Quran."

But you should watch this video:

That's the Old Testament. Don't know how many times a week somebody has to point out to one of you atheists that Jesus was pretty solidly against violence to others.

Exactly. When Jesus was crucified, alllllll the old rules and regulations were nailed to the cross (not 10 commandments). No more stoning etc. Just love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, etc. True Christianity is extremely passive and nonviolent. There's no violence in the gospel.

So it took this Jesus to tell the world that his father was actually a pretty nice fellow. He threw aside his violent history - found in the OT - in order to create a softer side of his father. How convenient!

a true Deus ex machina!

It doesn't seem to make sense to send your own son to be crucified to prove you're not nasty. There must have been a less, nasty, painful way of doing it, but in those days, things wee different and who are we to question the mind of God. Ours is but to worship and glorify him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Let's try this again so that you and your poster friend can "get it." (However, I'll be talking to a wall, I'm sure.)

Ok - fact - Some Jews are kosher. Some Muslims stick to Halal dietary restrictions. Seventh Day adherents also follow dietary rules stemming from the Old Testament.

fact in that these are practices only - There is no scientific data found in the bible to support these eating habits. Now, I will add that Seventh Day followers do eat healthy foods and tend to live longer lives. THAT'S a fact based on a study.

The dietary laws stemming from the OT, however, were based on cultural habits. For example, for the most part, those animals that were socially acceptable were also chosen for meals. However, interestingly enough, the pig was domesticated yet is considered unclean. But why BORE you with facts?

And you're asking about Herodicus? Herodicus claimed that Greek gods were taken from the Egyptian - or "stolen." same is true for the Romans

Zeus is Jupiter. Hera is Juno. Heracles is Hercules. If you take control over an empire or a country or a village, you will "steal" parts of their cultural identity.

I fail to see how my posts are filled with drivel when you can't even find one primary source to support your "facts."

And we do indeed study Greek and Roman myths and biblical stories to understand the FULL meaning of a text. Shakespeare was a master at including allusions. Yes, they shed insight into human behavior. But they are STORIES within stories. So, in essence, what you're stating is that you believe Zeus was real, yes? Do you fear his wrath on stormy days?

And these myths were used to indoctrinate the illiterate masses. Medieval pageants were brought to the people as a way to reenact their idea of "history." Greek plays were didactic. They were meant to instruct (indoctrinate) and entertain.

Furthermore, moving from a polytheistic society to a monotheistic society was a smart political move, as people were easier to control under one rule. It was a way to consolidate power. The early Jews were polytheistic! Commandment #1 - You shall have no other gods before me.

Now, why would God - who has no beginning and no end - suddenly step in and say this? "Poof! Begone false gods!"

And . . . if you're really interested, you could do some research on the similarities btw Marduk (patron deity of Babylon, leader over lesser gods) AND Yhwh. And yes, Marduk is in the bible in Jeremiah 50:2:

"Announce and proclaim among the nations, lift up a banner and proclaim it; keep nothing back, but say, 'Babylon will be captured; Bel will be put to shame, Marduk filled with terror. Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror.'

But why waste my breath on you with silly facts.

Please feel free, however, to pray for my soul b/c obviously facts will send me to hell.

Oh FFS. You're rude AND dumb and self-obsessed.

Let's start at the top. OP and you (or you are OP) are claiming that Islam is inherently violent, and that Christianity and Judiasm are also violent but maybe a hair less so.

So how shall we answer OP? What's important to debating OP/you?
- It's NOT important that you yourself have faith in any or none of these religions. Do we care if you're Jewish, Christian, Muslim, something else, or Atheist? Hell no! Faith is irrelevant to this discussion.
- It's NOT important that you think all religion is based on ancient religions. See the first bullet about faith. Why you go on like a broken record about this, as if it's even the slightest bit material to answering the question "Is Islam violent?", is a mystery.
- What IS important to answering the question, "Is Islam violent?" Easy, and this should be obvious to you. The answer lies in examining what MUSLIMS believe, not what YOU believe. The answer lies in what's actually in the Quran (or the Hebrew Bible, or the New Testament), whether practitioners take their holy books literally or not, whether there are supplementary sources (Hadith) and maybe even what leading theologians or jurors say about THEIR religion. And it's right here that you show yourself woefully ignorant and unable to engage in informed discussion.

Once more with feeling: NOBODY here cares what YOU believe or don't believe. Stop being so self-obsessed. The answer to OP's question lies in what MUSLIMS believe, what's in their holy book, the Hadith, and so on. If only you would bother to study it. Then you could post something besides your irrelevant broken records about Egyptians and your insults.

[Anonymous]

Amen. Ancient Egypt obsessed atheist PP is a bore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Let's try this again so that you and your poster friend can "get it." (However, I'll be talking to a wall, I'm sure.)

Ok - fact - Some Jews are kosher. Some Muslims stick to Halal dietary restrictions. Seventh Day adherents also follow dietary rules stemming from the Old Testament.

fact in that these are practices only - There is no scientific data found in the bible to support these eating habits. Now, I will add that Seventh Day followers do eat healthy foods and tend to live longer lives. THAT'S a fact based on a study.

The dietary laws stemming from the OT, however, were based on cultural habits. For example, for the most part, those animals that were socially acceptable were also chosen for meals. However, interestingly enough, the pig was domesticated yet is considered unclean. But why BORE you with facts?

And you're asking about Herodicus? Herodicus claimed that Greek gods were taken from the Egyptian - or "stolen." same is true for the Romans

Zeus is Jupiter. Hera is Juno. Heracles is Hercules. If you take control over an empire or a country or a village, you will "steal" parts of their cultural identity.

I fail to see how my posts are filled with drivel when you can't even find one primary source to support your "facts."

And we do indeed study Greek and Roman myths and biblical stories to understand the FULL meaning of a text. Shakespeare was a master at including allusions. Yes, they shed insight into human behavior. But they are STORIES within stories. So, in essence, what you're stating is that you believe Zeus was real, yes? Do you fear his wrath on stormy days?

And these myths were used to indoctrinate the illiterate masses. Medieval pageants were brought to the people as a way to reenact their idea of "history." Greek plays were didactic. They were meant to instruct (indoctrinate) and entertain.

Furthermore, moving from a polytheistic society to a monotheistic society was a smart political move, as people were easier to control under one rule. It was a way to consolidate power. The early Jews were polytheistic! Commandment #1 - You shall have no other gods before me.

Now, why would God - who has no beginning and no end - suddenly step in and say this? "Poof! Begone false gods!"

And . . . if you're really interested, you could do some research on the similarities btw Marduk (patron deity of Babylon, leader over lesser gods) AND Yhwh. And yes, Marduk is in the bible in Jeremiah 50:2:

"Announce and proclaim among the nations, lift up a banner and proclaim it; keep nothing back, but say, 'Babylon will be captured; Bel will be put to shame, Marduk filled with terror. Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror.'

But why waste my breath on you with silly facts.

Please feel free, however, to pray for my soul b/c obviously facts will send me to hell.

Oh FFS. You're rude AND dumb and self-obsessed.

Let's start at the top. OP and you (or you are OP) are claiming that Islam is inherently violent, and that Christianity and Judiasm are also violent but maybe a hair less so.

So how shall we answer OP? What's important to debating OP/you?
- It's NOT important that you yourself have faith in any or none of these religions. Do we care if you're Jewish, Christian, Muslim, something else, or Atheist? Hell no! Faith is irrelevant to this discussion.
- It's NOT important that you think all religion is based on ancient religions. See the first bullet about faith. Why you go on like a broken record about this, as if it's even the slightest bit material to answering the question "Is Islam violent?", is a mystery.
- What IS important to answering the question, "Is Islam violent?" Easy, and this should be obvious to you. The answer lies in examining what MUSLIMS believe, not what YOU believe. The answer lies in what's actually in the Quran (or the Hebrew Bible, or the New Testament), whether practitioners take their holy books literally or not, whether there are supplementary sources (Hadith) and maybe even what leading theologians or jurors say about THEIR religion. And it's right here that you show yourself woefully ignorant and unable to engage in informed discussion.

Once more with feeling: NOBODY here cares what YOU believe or don't believe. Stop being so self-obsessed. The answer to OP's question lies in what MUSLIMS believe, what's in their holy book, the Hadith, and so on. If only you would bother to study it. Then you could post something besides your irrelevant broken records about Egyptians and your insults.

Egyptians are irrelevant? No -- Egyptian lives matter -- even ancient Egyptians

[Anonymous]

Ancient Egyptians are totally irrelevant to the topic of what beliefs Muslims follow today. Of course if you are the poster who has in the past insisted that Christmas is actually a an ancient Egyptian pagan festival I could see where you could make a wacky connection.

[Anonymous]

Blah blah blah...ancient Egyptians... blah blah blah ... I hate Muslims ... Blah blah blah ... I hate Christians ... blah blah blah ... Did OP ask something about Islam and what Muslims believe? ... blah blah blah ... My answer is about me and my feelings about religion and ancient Egyptians ... blah blah blah... me! me! It's all about me! pfith sputter blurg

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Blah blah blah...ancient Egyptians... blah blah blah ... I hate Muslims ... Blah blah blah ... I hate Christians ... blah blah blah ... Did OP ask something about Islam and what Muslims believe? ... blah blah blah ... My answer is about me and my feelings about religion and ancient Egyptians ... blah blah blah... me! me! It's all about me! pfith sputter blurg

Academy award for best blah-blah" goes to 19:34!