So which holy book do peaceful Muslims follow?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been several journal articles recently about "Mecca vs. Medina Muslims." The argument goes that both peace and war can be found in the Quran. The first verses were dictated when Muhammad was in Mecca, his Muslim followers were a minority, and the approach was generally conciliatory. Later verses were dictated when Mohammad was in Medina, his forces were stronger, they were fighting the Qureshi and others, so the tone is more aggressive.

The point is that both facets are the "real" Islam. This is because both war and peace are found in the Quran.

A further point is that Muslims take the Quran literally, i.e. God dictated it directly to Mohammad via an angel. Thus, in theory, all passages have comparable validity.

(Atheist trolls/derailers please go away. The grownups are trying to talk.)

from my understanding, the Quran calls for followers to essentially fight in his name. As it relates to the Bible, God stresses HE will take care of our enemies and issues. There is no call to arms like there is in the Quran.
I saw this as someone who actually does not believe that Muslims are violent. But book seems to leave that open to interpretation. The bible is very clear as to who is in control.

Jesus actually says to turn the other cheek, don't fight. Some have interpreted this as a form of 30AD passive resistance (when you turn the other cheek, you force the other guy to slap you with his clean hand). It's not a call to arms however you see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a good question. There is violence in the Old Testament but not sure the New Testament says to kill, behead, maim anyone in God's name. [i][b]

Here are some interesting links
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5930764

http://www.theresligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

I don't think it does either, but despite that, we had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, slavery, etc.

True but the New Testament books never say to kill someone. There is a lot of "turn the other cheek" but no order to fight or kill unbelievers. Whereas the Quran says things like:
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

This is not the full quote. The same verse also only commands Muslims to fight those who practice oppression or persecution, or attack the Muslims. And in the event of a battle, the same laws of war are in place and a Muslim who transgresses limits should prepare for the punishment of God.

It is also important to note that the Qur’an clearly condemns murder. The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder,

6:151 Take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. 17:33 Nor take life, which God has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas(retribution) or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law) 5:32…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a good question. There is violence in the Old Testament but not sure the New Testament says to kill, behead, maim anyone in God's name. [i][b]

Here are some interesting links
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5930764

http://www.theresligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

I don't think it does either, but despite that, we had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, slavery, etc.

True but the New Testament books never say to kill someone. There is a lot of "turn the other cheek" but no order to fight or kill unbelievers. Whereas the Quran says things like:
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

This is not the full quote. The same verse also only commands Muslims to fight those who practice oppression or persecution, or attack the Muslims. And in the event of a battle, the same laws of war are in place and a Muslim who transgresses limits should prepare for the punishment of God.

It is also important to note that the Qur’an clearly condemns murder. The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder,

6:151 Take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. 17:33 Nor take life, which God has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas(retribution) or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law) 5:32…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people

Exactly. It's all there, slaying renegades as well as injunctions never to murder. It's all the literal word of God.

I believe you could have quoted better verses. I'm at work so I can't dig them out. The verses you pasted leave a lot of room for interpreting "just cause" and what constitutes "spreading mischief."

[Anonymous]

If the New Testament doesn't encourage us to kill other people and yet Christians throughout the centuries have killed and oppressed other people, maybe the issue is not what is written in the book. Otherwise I don't know how to explain all my devout Muslim friends who are lovely people who would never hurt a fly - because obviously some of y'all think people are weirdly susceptible to what their religious texts say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the New Testament doesn't encourage us to kill other people and yet Christians throughout the centuries have killed and oppressed other people, maybe the issue is not what is written in the book. Otherwise I don't know how to explain all my devout Muslim friends who are lovely people who would never hurt a fly - because obviously some of y'all think people are weirdly susceptible to what their religious texts say.

Yes re the murdering Christians. Yes re the lovely Muslims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a good question. There is violence in the Old Testament but not sure the New Testament says to kill, behead, maim anyone in God's name. [i][b]

Here are some interesting links
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5930764

http://www.theresligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

I don't think it does either, but despite that, we had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, slavery, etc.

True but the New Testament books never say to kill someone. There is a lot of "turn the other cheek" but no order to fight or kill unbelievers. Whereas the Quran says things like:
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

This is not the full quote. The same verse also only commands Muslims to fight those who practice oppression or persecution, or attack the Muslims. And in the event of a battle, the same laws of war are in place and a Muslim who transgresses limits should prepare for the punishment of God.

It is also important to note that the Qur’an clearly condemns murder. The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder,

6:151 Take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. 17:33 Nor take life, which God has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas(retribution) or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law) 5:32…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people

Exactly. It's all there, slaying renegades as well as injunctions never to murder. It's all the literal word of God.

I believe you could have quoted better verses. I'm at work so I can't dig them out. The verses you pasted leave a lot of room for interpreting "just cause" and what constitutes "spreading mischief."

And in the Prophets life and the various treaties of the time you can clarify meaning. For example the treaty with the Christians of Najran.
" To the Christians of Najran and its surrounding territories, the security of God and the pledge of His Prophet is extended for their lives, religion and their property- to the present as well as the absent, and others besides, there shall be no interference within the practice of their faith or their observance nor any change in their rights and privileges, no bishop shall be removed from his bishopric, nor any priest from his priesthood, nor any monk from his monastery, and they shall continue to enjoy everything great and small as heretofore no image or cross hall be destroyed, they shall not oppress or be oppressed; they shall not practice the rights of blood-vengeance as in the Days of Ignorance, nor shall they be required to furnish provisions for the troops"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a good question. There is violence in the Old Testament but not sure the New Testament says to kill, behead, maim anyone in God's name. [i][b]

Here are some interesting links
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5930764

http://www.theresligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

I don't think it does either, but despite that, we had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, slavery, etc.

True but the New Testament books never say to kill someone. There is a lot of "turn the other cheek" but no order to fight or kill unbelievers. Whereas the Quran says things like:
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

This is not the full quote. The same verse also only commands Muslims to fight those who practice oppression or persecution, or attack the Muslims. And in the event of a battle, the same laws of war are in place and a Muslim who transgresses limits should prepare for the punishment of God.

It is also important to note that the Qur’an clearly condemns murder. The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder,

6:151 Take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. 17:33 Nor take life, which God has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas(retribution) or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law) 5:32…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people

Exactly. It's all there, slaying renegades as well as injunctions never to murder. It's all the literal word of God.

I believe you could have quoted better verses. I'm at work so I can't dig them out. The verses you pasted leave a lot of room for interpreting "just cause" and what constitutes "spreading mischief."

And in the Prophets life and the various treaties of the time you can clarify meaning. For example the treaty with the Christians of Najran.
" To the Christians of Najran and its surrounding territories, the security of God and the pledge of His Prophet is extended for their lives, religion and their property- to the present as well as the absent, and others besides, there shall be no interference within the practice of their faith or their observance nor any change in their rights and privileges, no bishop shall be removed from his bishopric, nor any priest from his priesthood, nor any monk from his monastery, and they shall continue to enjoy everything great and small as heretofore no image or cross hall be destroyed, they shall not oppress or be oppressed; they shall not practice the rights of blood-vengeance as in the Days of Ignorance, nor shall they be required to furnish provisions for the troops"

Worth mentioning that, per the Quran, Christians and Jews have to pay a special tax and show submission to Muslims in order to receive this protection.

[Anonymous]

Islamic Terror Attacks from the first part of 2015
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2015.htm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a practicing Catholic who can imagine an 11th century Muslim resident of Jerusalem asking the same thing of Christians.

No religion has a monopoly on violent extremists. People of faith everywhere deal with the challenge of the lofty ideals of our beliefs vs. the reality of being morally weak humans in an imperfect, tempting world.

So you refer to the Crusades. And you STILL can't see that religion has been used to control since the beginning of time?

Someone said during yesterday's mass shooting that God protected her. So why didn't God protect the others? Just God just spin a wheel when making these decisions? toss a dice? pick names out of a hat?

In other words, why doesn't God do what *I* think is right? Wahh! Waaah!

Are you FUCKING kidding me?

If someone in your family had been killed yesterday, I'm sure you'd cry, "Wahh!" You're a sick fuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In other words, why doesn't God do what *I* think is right? Wahh! Waaah!

Are you FUCKING kidding me?

If someone in your family had been killed yesterday, I'm sure you'd cry, "Wahh!" You're a sick fuck.

Top PP is more like: "Waaah, look at me! I'm a troll, look at me! I'm eight years old! Don't look at the discussion, look at me!" Wish the moderator would ban these useless trolls.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a good question. There is violence in the Old Testament but not sure the New Testament says to kill, behead, maim anyone in God's name. [i][b]

Here are some interesting links
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5930764

http://www.theresligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

I don't think it does either, but despite that, we had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, slavery, etc.

True but the New Testament books never say to kill someone. There is a lot of "turn the other cheek" but no order to fight or kill unbelievers. Whereas the Quran says things like:
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

This is not the full quote. The same verse also only commands Muslims to fight those who practice oppression or persecution, or attack the Muslims. And in the event of a battle, the same laws of war are in place and a Muslim who transgresses limits should prepare for the punishment of God.

It is also important to note that the Qur’an clearly condemns murder. The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder,

6:151 Take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. 17:33 Nor take life, which God has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas(retribution) or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law) 5:32…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people

Exactly. It's all there, slaying renegades as well as injunctions never to murder. It's all the literal word of God.

I believe you could have quoted better verses. I'm at work so I can't dig them out. The verses you pasted leave a lot of room for interpreting "just cause" and what constitutes "spreading mischief."

And in the Prophets life and the various treaties of the time you can clarify meaning. For example the treaty with the Christians of Najran.
" To the Christians of Najran and its surrounding territories, the security of God and the pledge of His Prophet is extended for their lives, religion and their property- to the present as well as the absent, and others besides, there shall be no interference within the practice of their faith or their observance nor any change in their rights and privileges, no bishop shall be removed from his bishopric, nor any priest from his priesthood, nor any monk from his monastery, and they shall continue to enjoy everything great and small as heretofore no image or cross hall be destroyed, they shall not oppress or be oppressed; they shall not practice the rights of blood-vengeance as in the Days of Ignorance, nor shall they be required to furnish provisions for the troops"

Worth mentioning that, per the Quran, Christians and Jews have to pay a special tax and show submission to Muslims in order to receive this protection.

Also worth mentioning that if you were not of an Abrahamic faith you were murdered or if you're lucky you were able flee your homeland and everything you knew and try to resettle elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

The Quran and the Hadith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a good question. There is violence in the Old Testament but not sure the New Testament says to kill, behead, maim anyone in God's name. [i][b]

Here are some interesting links
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5930764

http://www.theresligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

I don't think it does either, but despite that, we had the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, slavery, etc.

True but the New Testament books never say to kill someone. There is a lot of "turn the other cheek" but no order to fight or kill unbelievers. Whereas the Quran says things like:
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

This is not the full quote. The same verse also only commands Muslims to fight those who practice oppression or persecution, or attack the Muslims. And in the event of a battle, the same laws of war are in place and a Muslim who transgresses limits should prepare for the punishment of God.

It is also important to note that the Qur’an clearly condemns murder. The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder,

6:151 Take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom. 17:33 Nor take life, which God has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas(retribution) or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law) 5:32…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people

You know about principle of abrogation in the Quran, right? It's means that the latest duras overnight the previous. Yrs, in his early years Mohammed does talk about the piece. However, the latest directives from him is to kill infidels.

[Anonymous]

^suras.