JO Wilson vs. Ludlow-Taylor

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:OP, you sound like your family would fit in well at one of the DCI feeders (we are at one, and there are a number of families with very international backgrounds), so I second the advice to rent and play the lottery to see if you can get in somewhere. If you do that, then you will have much more freedom to choose a house wherever you want. An additional strategy could be to buy a house in bounds for a "rising" school and use it as a backup until you get into an immersion charter. The downside of this strategy is that your family will be in flux for longer. However, if you live near the Hill, you can get your kids involved in the wide range of kid activities available there (Sports on the Hill etc), and start integrating into the local community.


Agree with this advice, but remember that LAMB doesn't accept kids past PK4, and it's difficult to get in any of the DCI feeders, particularly those close to the Hill like Mundo Verde or the South Dakota LAMB campus.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, you sound like your family would fit in well at one of the DCI feeders (we are at one, and there are a number of families with very international backgrounds), so I second the advice to rent and play the lottery to see if you can get in somewhere. If you do that, then you will have much more freedom to choose a house wherever you want. An additional strategy could be to buy a house in bounds for a "rising" school and use it as a backup until you get into an immersion charter. The downside of this strategy is that your family will be in flux for longer. However, if you live near the Hill, you can get your kids involved in the wide range of kid activities available there (Sports on the Hill etc), and start integrating into the local community.


Agree with this advice, but remember that LAMB doesn't accept kids past PK4, and it's difficult to get in any of the DCI feeders, particularly those close to the Hill like Mundo Verde or the South Dakota LAMB campus.


DCI has no scores and no track record. And MV has no scores and no track record. I mention this because to read posts like yours you'd think you were talking about proven schools. But we aren't.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Still tilting at windmills?


I think it's great that you get so much use out of the literary phrase you learned in middle or high school. I mean, it's not as impressive as you think it is and you aren't actually using it properly, but no doubt in certain circles you probably get credit for being smarter than you are for using it. So good on you!


English professor here who doesn't care about any of these schools but who has horrible pregnancy insomnia. What is wrong with the poster's use of this phrase? It seems correctly used to me. You may disagree that you were tilting at windmills, but it's a reasonable charge when looked at from a different perspective.


Hopefully not one that teaches my kid. The phrase refers to responding to or attacking an imaginary enemy. The poster who used that phrase in response a post that failed to address the PP's data. In particular, they asked why a school with a low FARMS rate wouldn't have scores commensurate with other schools with that FARMS rate, and has scores only marginally better or worse than schools with much higher FARMS rates. They concluded by asking why that wouldn't be a concern. That's not fighting an imaginary enemy. That's a valid data based question.

Sorry, Professor, but that's a misuse of a phrase.


I believe the poster was referring to the fact that you are so vigorously arguing about the relative merits of Brent vs LT on a thread that does not need to involve discussions of Brent at all. The perception that every thread about a Hill school needs to be a rehash of a debate about Brent's superiority is the "imaginary enemy" in this case. Sometimes nobody cares about Brent and they want to talk about other things.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Still tilting at windmills?


I think it's great that you get so much use out of the literary phrase you learned in middle or high school. I mean, it's not as impressive as you think it is and you aren't actually using it properly, but no doubt in certain circles you probably get credit for being smarter than you are for using it. So good on you!


English professor here who doesn't care about any of these schools but who has horrible pregnancy insomnia. What is wrong with the poster's use of this phrase? It seems correctly used to me. You may disagree that you were tilting at windmills, but it's a reasonable charge when looked at from a different perspective.


Hopefully not one that teaches my kid. The phrase refers to responding to or attacking an imaginary enemy. The poster who used that phrase in response a post that failed to address the PP's data. In particular, they asked why a school with a low FARMS rate wouldn't have scores commensurate with other schools with that FARMS rate, and has scores only marginally better or worse than schools with much higher FARMS rates. They concluded by asking why that wouldn't be a concern. That's not fighting an imaginary enemy. That's a valid data based question.

Sorry, Professor, but that's a misuse of a phrase.


I believe the poster was referring to the fact that you are so vigorously arguing about the relative merits of Brent vs LT on a thread that does not need to involve discussions of Brent at all. The perception that every thread about a Hill school needs to be a rehash of a debate about Brent's superiority is the "imaginary enemy" in this case. Sometimes nobody cares about Brent and they want to talk about other things.
+1
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The fear of poor black kids on this thread is kind of disgusting. If you all feel that way, why the hell aren't you in moco or fairfax?

I have known many families from many walks of life and the poor ones want the same things you do--what is best for ther kids. Furthermore, if they are committed to bringing them in from oob you can be damn sure they care. And in my experience, their kids are just as wonderful as your little snowflake.
+1


My "snowflake" is Asian and we were in PreK3 at JO Wilson not long ago. We almost bought in the LT District but were turned off by the granola crunchie/politically correct vibe we got at PTA meetings.

Glad to see that JO Wilson is attracting a few more neighborhood families. That said, it's PC nonsense for a newbie upper middle-class family of any race to plan to use the school in the upper grades. It will happen...by 2025.

If you want to be or near the Hill and use public schools, buy or rent for Brent or Maury, or lottery into SWS or a charter with strong high SES representation in the upper grades. You missed the boat for Cap Hill Montessori. Done.




Why 2025 and not sooner? Serious question. Is it the teachers? The school philosophy? If high SES attend the lower grades, why wouldn't they continue as a class through the upper grades?
Anonymous
Cheap shot. Most East Asian immigration to this country post-dates the Civil Rights Movement. Immigrant families had their own troubles under Japanese rule and Communism, and so, can hardly be blamed for not relating well to the macro socioeconomic situation of low-income urban AAs.

WalletHub, a respected financial services and analysis web site, recently ranked DCPS as lower performing than all 50 states on several accounts - SAT reading scores, SAT math scores, and high school graduation rates. East Asian immigrant families flock to high-performing school systems, even if they aren't well off. This helps explain why few Asian kids with Asian parents can be found in the upper grades of DC public elementary schools city-wide, even in Upper NW.






Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The fear of poor black kids on this thread is kind of disgusting. If you all feel that way, why the hell aren't you in moco or fairfax?

I have known many families from many walks of life and the poor ones want the same things you do--what is best for ther kids. Furthermore, if they are committed to bringing them in from oob you can be damn sure they care. And in my experience, their kids are just as wonderful as your little snowflake.
+1


My "snowflake" is Asian and we were in PreK3 at JO Wilson not long ago. We almost bought in the LT District but were turned off by the granola crunchie/politically correct vibe we got at PTA meetings.

Glad to see that JO Wilson is attracting a few more neighborhood families. That said, it's PC nonsense for a newbie upper middle-class family of any race to plan to use the school in the upper grades. It will happen...by 2025.

If you want to be or near the Hill and use public schools, buy or rent for Brent or Maury, or lottery into SWS or a charter with strong high SES representation in the upper grades. You missed the boat for Cap Hill Montessori. Done.




Why 2025 and not sooner? Serious question. Is it the teachers? The school philosophy? If high SES attend the lower grades, why wouldn't they continue as a class through the upper grades?


None of the above. Suggestion: ask this question of the Brent or Maury old PTA hands. The two PTAs fund raise like mad to pay for the teachers aides and pullout groups DCPS won't provide to offer sufficient challenge to the children of professional parents who land in classes where a good many classmates are growing up in homes blighted by multi-generational poverty. You need a critical mass of well-heeled parents to raise the money, and attracting them takes 5-10 years after a school starts to turn.

DCPS doesn't provide the staff inputs to keep most high SES families in the upper ES grades, let alone in neighborhood middle schools. Myopic DCPS leaders leaves it to parent organizations to pay for inputs "advanced learners" (read ordinary high SES kids without SNs) need to find challenge past around 2nd grade. The system stinks. Admins and teachers at schools like JO Wilson and LT, most of whom are strong, even heroic, certainly can't be blamed.


Anonymous
What makes this even more sad is the fact that DCPS is now EXPECTING this! Whatever parents are willing to pay for they are willing to let you. This includes supplies, text books, class sets of books, etc. It is pathetic considering DCPS is on the high end of the money spent per student. Where the hell is the money going? Some of these schools are so raggedy it is a crime! DCPS was the one who decided teachers would get paid these unsustainable salaries. Not the WTU contrary to popular belief.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The fear of poor black kids on this thread is kind of disgusting. If you all feel that way, why the hell aren't you in moco or fairfax?

I have known many families from many walks of life and the poor ones want the same things you do--what is best for ther kids. Furthermore, if they are committed to bringing them in from oob you can be damn sure they care. And in my experience, their kids are just as wonderful as your little snowflake.
+1


My "snowflake" is Asian and we were in PreK3 at JO Wilson not long ago. We almost bought in the LT District but were turned off by the granola crunchie/politically correct vibe we got at PTA meetings.

Glad to see that JO Wilson is attracting a few more neighborhood families. That said, it's PC nonsense for a newbie upper middle-class family of any race to plan to use the school in the upper grades. It will happen...by 2025.

If you want to be or near the Hill and use public schools, buy or rent for Brent or Maury, or lottery into SWS or a charter with strong high SES representation in the upper grades. You missed the boat for Cap Hill Montessori. Done.




Why 2025 and not sooner? Serious question. Is it the teachers? The school philosophy? If high SES attend the lower grades, why wouldn't they continue as a class through the upper grades?


None of the above. Suggestion: ask this question of the Brent or Maury old PTA hands. The two PTAs fund raise like mad to pay for the teachers aides and pullout groups DCPS won't provide to offer sufficient challenge to the children of professional parents who land in classes where a good many classmates are growing up in homes blighted by multi-generational poverty. You need a critical mass of well-heeled parents to raise the money, and attracting them takes 5-10 years after a school starts to turn.

DCPS doesn't provide the staff inputs to keep most high SES families in the upper ES grades, let alone in neighborhood middle schools. Myopic DCPS leaders leaves it to parent organizations to pay for inputs "advanced learners" (read ordinary high SES kids without SNs) need to find challenge past around 2nd grade. The system stinks. Admins and teachers at schools like JO Wilson and LT, most of whom are strong, even heroic, certainly can't be blamed.


Anonymous
^They're not only expecting it, they're all but demanding it. They cut Brent's budget this year, and some of the JKLM budgets. No skin off their backs, knowing that high SES parents committed to city living will pull together to pick up the tab to close the funding gap, paying for the enrichment they want in public schools. It's wrong and short-sighted, but they get away with it due to the obnoxious political climate.



Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:^They're not only expecting it, they're all but demanding it. They cut Brent's budget this year, and some of the JKLM budgets. No skin off their backs, knowing that high SES parents committed to city living will pull together to pick up the tab to close the funding gap, paying for the enrichment they want in public schools. It's wrong and short-sighted, but they get away with it due to the obnoxious political climate.



I heard about this however it wasn't just the high performing schools. I think it was less of a it with the others since they were already "making do."
Anonymous
Brent received about $150,000 more in the FY16 than in FY15. Many Hill schools saw a reduction. As in past years, Brent was able to reallocate funds to a full-time science teacher and the PTA now directly supports a behavior tech and three additional classroom aides.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, I am very familiar with all three schools, but I would encourage you to consider charter schools as well. You will need to play the school lottery to get into them, but based on your family's experience and your goals I think you'd be very happy at some of the schools with a diverse, international focus.

So, I'd recommend renting for a year and playing the lottery. Then, based on what schools you get into, you can move to that part of the city.
It think they are excellent elementary schools and charters need not be an option when you have such good choices of public. If I'm not mistaken each school also has a focus. For example LT is an arts integration school. Try to match up the school with your child's interests.


I'm the poster that recommended that OP consider charters. I have a similar background as OP and attend a charter which has a very diverse group of international families (many languages spoken) and I think OP would love it at our school. I live on the Hill and considered Maury, LT, & JO - which are all great options. However, none of these schools have the international focus (not just parents from other countries, but study of other countries) that I'm speaking of.

My child does not go to a DCI feeder BTW.
Anonymous
I find the casual suggestion that people consider SWS or charters for K interesting. It's almost as if the lottery and limited number of seats aren't a factor.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Lordy, lordy, lordy. Here we go again with the people who used to live on the Hill or who live in Eastern Market chiming in on matters about which they do not know. The real estate around JO is in the same zip code as LT (20002) so there is no way to do a quick search and determine real estate cost. But for anyone who looks at these things the "south of H" logic was BS several years ago. And since JO is closer to the impending Whole Foods, Union Market and the Edens project, and since it is closer to the metro (a fact that drives real estate values across the city) it turns out the cost per square foot is actually higher near JO. But don't let facts get in the way of your BS 10 year old impressions.

And to the OP, without a doubt LT is ahead of JO. Probably by 3-4 years. But the key is that LT is fundamentally different in about 3rd grade and JO in PK3 or PK4, so it all depends on where your kid is or will be. Oh, and they both feed into the same MS; the only MS besides Deal that has any promise. Unfortunately Brent has no MS options (many kids go to charters in 4th or 5th).


Give me a break. You're saying the RE values north of H (in the JO boundry) are higher than south of H in the LT/Maury Boundries? You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

JO is 7 blocks from the NY/Gallaudet metro, LT is 7 blocks from Union Station on the very same line, so that assertion make zero sense.

Check your sales prices between the two areas and you'll see on average that home south of H are selling for over $100k more on average. It will gradually get closer, but for now the South of H trope ain't BS -- ask any RE agent.

LT has better test scores, JO has a better playground and I hear everyone likes the principal. We'll see if this equates to higher test scores. Both are fine schools. Brent has been a high-quality ES longer than any other ES on the Hill, but now there are others that are nearly-as, or as-good.
Anonymous
Big difference in home prices in LT and Maury. LT prices are about 100K higher than JO prices, but JO prices are the same or higher than Maury prices.
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