Why are white people all around the world not having kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill bite - I am 32 and my DH is 30. Our HHI is 175k and two big reasons we aren't having kids yet - in the immediate we can't afford it (day care is upwards of $1600-1800 a month in DC) and in the long term we can't afford it (our under grad institutions are pushing 60k+ per year NOW) and the other reason is most of our friends aren't even married at this point and the ones that are have not had kids. If we had a kid we would only be breaking even for the next few years and would be in debt if we had 2 and were paying for daycare. Husband is a JD working government and I work in the non profit world and have only a BA.

PP, basically, you and your husband don't want to children right now. And that is fine! If you never want children, that is fine too!

But to say that you can't afford to have a child because your household income is $175,000...

We make 200k a year and can't afford children. After saving for retirement and paying bills, there's hardly enough leftover for daycare plus all the other crap. Life here is expensive.

Yes! 170k here and little is left. Our 80k in student loans is almost paid off, but we're reluctant to go into debt for kids. Daycare is what we're most concerned about. And 3 months unpaid maternity

[Anonymous]

Infertility epidemic in Europe is why the low birth rate there. maybe in Japan also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a pan-white sadness and gloominess going around that is causing whites everywhere around the globe to have sub-replacement birth rates?

It has more to do with wealth and standards of living. It's a well-established demographic fact that wealthy societies have lower birth rates (more kids survive to adulthood, not as many needed to help support the household).

Most "white" countries are developed and relatively wealthy with high SOLs. If by whatever accident of history most economic development and global colonization came out of, say, Iran, this thread might be titled "Why are Persians all around the world not having kids?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill bite - I am 32 and my DH is 30. Our HHI is 175k and two big reasons we aren't having kids yet - in the immediate we can't afford it (day care is upwards of $1600-1800 a month in DC) and in the long term we can't afford it (our under grad institutions are pushing 60k+ per year NOW) and the other reason is most of our friends aren't even married at this point and the ones that are have not had kids. If we had a kid we would only be breaking even for the next few years and would be in debt if we had 2 and were paying for daycare. Husband is a JD working government and I work in the non profit world and have only a BA.

PP, basically, you and your husband don't want to children right now. And that is fine! If you never want children, that is fine too!

But to say that you can't afford to have a child because your household income is $175,000...

We make 200k a year and can't afford children. After saving for retirement and paying bills, there's hardly enough leftover for daycare plus all the other crap. Life here is expensive.

Yes! 170k here and little is left. Our 80k in student loans is almost paid off, but we're reluctant to go into debt for kids. Daycare is what we're most concerned about. And 3 months unpaid maternity

What do you think the median household income is, in your area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of affluent Caucasian couples in the DC area are not interested in having children. I don't buy this paradigm.

Maybe not the "vast majority" but certainly a larger percentage than ever before. And those who have kids have less than the replacement. Believe what you want but the numbers don't lie.

I am a white married couple who's relatively affluent. We aren't having kids now. We'd like them, but we worry too much that the costs will send us overboard.

I think a lot of people my age are also concerned that people expect children to be stuck to you for 26 years. Kids are more attached to their parents than any other generation ever. Less independence. I loved playing in the cul de sac or out with friends. But now people expect the parent to be supervising 24/7.

Yep! It's not just the financial burden turning would-be parents away. The entire culture of modern parenthood assumes a slavish devotion to the children. I always tell my husband I would be a 1950s mom in a second. But in 2015? Hell no.

[Anonymous]

The first five minutes of Idiocracy explains it all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill bite - I am 32 and my DH is 30. Our HHI is 175k and two big reasons we aren't having kids yet - in the immediate we can't afford it (day care is upwards of $1600-1800 a month in DC) and in the long term we can't afford it (our under grad institutions are pushing 60k+ per year NOW) and the other reason is most of our friends aren't even married at this point and the ones that are have not had kids. If we had a kid we would only be breaking even for the next few years and would be in debt if we had 2 and were paying for daycare. Husband is a JD working government and I work in the non profit world and have only a BA.

PP, basically, you and your husband don't want to children right now. And that is fine! If you never want children, that is fine too!

But to say that you can't afford to have a child because your household income is $175,000...

We make 200k a year and can't afford children. After saving for retirement and paying bills, there's hardly enough leftover for daycare plus all the other crap. Life here is expensive.

Yes! 170k here and little is left. Our 80k in student loans is almost paid off, but we're reluctant to go into debt for kids. Daycare is what we're most concerned about. And 3 months unpaid maternity

What do you think the median household income is, in your area?

Why would that matter? Should everyone's standard of living be reduced to average?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill bite - I am 32 and my DH is 30. Our HHI is 175k and two big reasons we aren't having kids yet - in the immediate we can't afford it (day care is upwards of $1600-1800 a month in DC) and in the long term we can't afford it (our under grad institutions are pushing 60k+ per year NOW) and the other reason is most of our friends aren't even married at this point and the ones that are have not had kids. If we had a kid we would only be breaking even for the next few years and would be in debt if we had 2 and were paying for daycare. Husband is a JD working government and I work in the non profit world and have only a BA.

PP, basically, you and your husband don't want to children right now. And that is fine! If you never want children, that is fine too!

But to say that you can't afford to have a child because your household income is $175,000...

We make 200k a year and can't afford children. After saving for retirement and paying bills, there's hardly enough leftover for daycare plus all the other crap. Life here is expensive.

Yes! 170k here and little is left. Our 80k in student loans is almost paid off, but we're reluctant to go into debt for kids. Daycare is what we're most concerned about. And 3 months unpaid maternity

What do you think the median household income is, in your area?

OK... but for that money we also work very long hours and had 80k in student loans. Longer hours at work= more daycare costs. Neither of us make that much- it's TWO people making 170k. In the rest of the US average income is 50k, 85k here isn't exactly rolling in dough here. Things are much, much more expensive in the DC area.

[Anonymous]

this is the 175k PP - thanks for the support... life here is expensive. Our take home is about 125k per year after taxes. We each put 6% into retirement, which isn't even enough but its something, so that brings us down to about 115k. Our mortgage, HOA and insurance on our condo is about 2800 per month, utilities and internet/cable is another 300. So $3100x 12 = 37,200 bringing us down to $77,500. Student loan payments(law school for husband) is $800/month and car payments (nothing fancy, 2 honda civics) are about $600/month. $1400x 12 =16,800 which brings us to $60,700. Food and misc. monthly spending(entertainment, clothing, eating out) is about $2500 so now we are at about 30k. From that 30k we travel to visit parents, go on vacations, put money in to an emergency fund, do repairs and maintenance on our condo (we got hit with a 20k assessment last year, glad we had been financially responsible), and put what we can into our Roth IRAs(we have been able to max those out in recent years). If we had a baby the 30k that we have left after meeting minimum expenses would go sole to the child - if we were lucky to find a daycare for $1600 in DC thats 20k a year right there so we would have 10k we have left we need to to pay for maintenance on our condo and everything else for the baby left so we don't fly to see parents, don't go on vacation for the next 5 years (ok, fine), don't fund our IRAs (ok, fine) and there is NO way we could have 2 kids on our current salaries. At 32 and 30 we are waiting another 3 years to even consider having a child. In 3 years hopefully my DH will be a GS 14 or 15 and not a 13 and I will hopefully make marginally more money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ill bite - I am 32 and my DH is 30. Our HHI is 175k and two big reasons we aren't having kids yet - in the immediate we can't afford it (day care is upwards of $1600-1800 a month in DC) and in the long term we can't afford it (our under grad institutions are pushing 60k+ per year NOW) and the other reason is most of our friends aren't even married at this point and the ones that are have not had kids. If we had a kid we would only be breaking even for the next few years and would be in debt if we had 2 and were paying for daycare. Husband is a JD working government and I work in the non profit world and have only a BA.

PP, basically, you and your husband don't want to children right now. And that is fine! If you never want children, that is fine too!

But to say that you can't afford to have a child because your household income is $175,000...

We make 200k a year and can't afford children. After saving for retirement and paying bills, there's hardly enough leftover for daycare plus all the other crap. Life here is expensive.

Yes! 170k here and little is left. Our 80k in student loans is almost paid off, but we're reluctant to go into debt for kids. Daycare is what we're most concerned about. And 3 months unpaid maternity

What do you think the median household income is, in your area?

OK... but for that money we also work very long hours and had 80k in student loans. Longer hours at work= more daycare costs. Neither of us make that much- it's TWO people making 170k. In the rest of the US average income is 50k, 85k here isn't exactly rolling in dough here. Things are much, much more expensive in the DC area.

So move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:this is the 175k PP - thanks for the support... life here is expensive. Our take home is about 125k per year after taxes. We each put 6% into retirement, which isn't even enough but its something, so that brings us down to about 115k. Our mortgage, HOA and insurance on our condo is about 2800 per month, utilities and internet/cable is another 300. So $3100x 12 = 37,200 bringing us down to $77,500. Student loan payments(law school for husband) is $800/month and car payments (nothing fancy, 2 honda civics) are about $600/month. $1400x 12 =16,800 which brings us to $60,700. Food and misc. monthly spending(entertainment, clothing, eating out) is about $2500 so now we are at about 30k. From that 30k we travel to visit parents, go on vacations, put money in to an emergency fund, do repairs and maintenance on our condo (we got hit with a 20k assessment last year, glad we had been financially responsible), and put what we can into our Roth IRAs(we have been able to max those out in recent years). If we had a baby the 30k that we have left after meeting minimum expenses would go sole to the child - if we were lucky to find a daycare for $1600 in DC thats 20k a year right there so we would have 10k we have left we need to to pay for maintenance on our condo and everything else for the baby left so we don't fly to see parents, don't go on vacation for the next 5 years (ok, fine), don't fund our IRAs (ok, fine) and there is NO way we could have 2 kids on our current salaries. At 32 and 30 we are waiting another 3 years to even consider having a child. In 3 years hopefully my DH will be a GS 14 or 15 and not a 13 and I will hopefully make marginally more money.

People have children with household incomes far less than $175,000. How do they do it?

I am not saying that you should have a child, by the way. I am saying that "we can't afford a child" is not accurate. What you can't afford is a child while living the life that you want to live. Which is fine. Nobody has to have a child, let alone two. It is fine to not have children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this is the 175k PP - thanks for the support... life here is expensive. Our take home is about 125k per year after taxes. We each put 6% into retirement, which isn't even enough but its something, so that brings us down to about 115k. Our mortgage, HOA and insurance on our condo is about 2800 per month, utilities and internet/cable is another 300. So $3100x 12 = 37,200 bringing us down to $77,500. Student loan payments(law school for husband) is $800/month and car payments (nothing fancy, 2 honda civics) are about $600/month. $1400x 12 =16,800 which brings us to $60,700. Food and misc. monthly spending(entertainment, clothing, eating out) is about $2500 so now we are at about 30k. From that 30k we travel to visit parents, go on vacations, put money in to an emergency fund, do repairs and maintenance on our condo (we got hit with a 20k assessment last year, glad we had been financially responsible), and put what we can into our Roth IRAs(we have been able to max those out in recent years). If we had a baby the 30k that we have left after meeting minimum expenses would go sole to the child - if we were lucky to find a daycare for $1600 in DC thats 20k a year right there so we would have 10k we have left we need to to pay for maintenance on our condo and everything else for the baby left so we don't fly to see parents, don't go on vacation for the next 5 years (ok, fine), don't fund our IRAs (ok, fine) and there is NO way we could have 2 kids on our current salaries. At 32 and 30 we are waiting another 3 years to even consider having a child. In 3 years hopefully my DH will be a GS 14 or 15 and not a 13 and I will hopefully make marginally more money.

People have children with household incomes far less than $175,000. How do they do it?

I am not saying that you should have a child, by the way. I am saying that "we can't afford a child" is not accurate. What you can't afford is a child while living the life that you want to live. Which is fine. Nobody has to have a child, let alone two. It is fine to not have children.

Yes! We should all try to make as little as possible and have lots of children in squalor. This is America after all. Why should anyone help you with anything.

[Anonymous]

Again, the posters above with large HHI are are not too poor. Their priorities are not aligned with kids. Whatever. Do what you want. But stop with the "we can't afford it" crap - it just isn't true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, the posters above with large HHI are are not too poor. Their priorities are not aligned with kids. Whatever. Do what you want. But stop with the "we can't afford it" crap - it just isn't true.

Daycare plus very basic child needs (diapers, formula) runs at least 25k a year. Do you really think most 30 year olds have an extra 25k laying around?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes! We should all try to make as little as possible and have lots of children in squalor. This is America after all. Why should anyone help you with anything.

Nobody said that.

Although I am kind of tickled by the idea that child + HHI<$175,000 = squalor.