Why Asian American kids excel. It’s not ‘Tiger Moms.’

[Anonymous]

Gosh. There is really no right and wrong on this--just different.

I have two kids and they could not be more opposite in interests and personality. Stereotypes just don't work. I come from the well rounded approach--but one of my kids is not as "well rounded" as I would have preferred. But, she's fine. She is who she is and that is a good thing.

As far as Tiger Moms, a lot of it is competitiveness for what you think is best for your kid. It stretches across all races and there are plenty of Caucasian Tiger Moms--I've seen them in sports and academics. I've even "played one" myself from time to time.

For the person on here who thinks the Asians are the only culture that cares for their old people--that is just not true. I speak from experience on this and you are dead wrong. Sure, there are exceptions--on both sides.
And, when you think that academics are all important and that it is fine to put intense pressure on your child--please look no further than the "genius girl" at
TJ who made up a ridiculous story in order to maintain "face". That didn't work out so well for that family and is a very sad story. That doesn't mean that all Koreans should be judged on that incident.

Stereotypes are harmful.

[Anonymous]

Ready to get zinged - Asian character traits: reserved, calm, quiet personality. The quiet well behaved child that follows instructions, works hard and gets good grades. However, it's often the smart child with the behavior issues in school that questions everything that creates and leads the company's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
Unfortunately, the top universities don't want kids who only focus on academics. Not saying it's right. Just saying this is how it is. Maybe it's racist, or maybe they just want more "well rounded" students. IDK.

Many lessons can be learned outside the classroom. Extracurricular activities provide situations where kids can learn much about perseverance, hard work, gracious winning and losing, how to be a contributing member of a group. A child who does nothing outside of academics will have missed out on a lot of the lessons kids need to learn to be good adults. Colleges are looking for students who bring much more to the table than just academics.

It's system devised to keep top performing, well-rounded Asian American kids out of top colleges.

Oh, right, of course. What else could it possibly be? Those top schools couldn't possibly have a genuine interest in kids who have developed a variety of talents and character traits over their high school years.

What "character traits" are supposedly missing from Asian American students that all the other students (whites, blacks, Hispanics) possess?

I did not say that Asian American students lack any character traits. Just said that top schools are looking for kids with a variety of talents and traits. Clearly, lots of Asian American, black, white, and Hispanic kids have these traits because lots are accepted every year. The schools don't have enough spaces to accept every single kid with the traits they are looking for, so unfortunately, some don't get accepted. There are many more kids who are qualified for these schools than they can possibly accept- that is why they are called lottery schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ready to get zinged - Asian character traits: reserved, calm, quiet personality. The quiet well behaved child that follows instructions, works hard and gets good grades. However, it's often the smart child with the behavior issues in school that questions everything that creates and leads the company's.

4.427 billion people in Asia, and every last one of them is reserved, calm, quiet, well-behaved, non-creative, and a follower. Who knew?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ready to get zinged - Asian character traits: reserved, calm, quiet personality. The quiet well behaved child that follows instructions, works hard and gets good grades. However, it's often the smart child with the behavior issues in school that questions everything that creates and leads the company's.

I don't think that's true. Kids with behavior issues usually end up in a jail not corp boardroom. Many 2nd generation Asian kids are not old enough to lead the company yet. Their parents (like myself) are either too old or came to America too late to climb the corp ladder. I think within next 20 years, as 2nd gen kids fully mature/climb up the corp ladder, you will see a lot more of them in management positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I honestly find threads like this worthless. You have Asians who act like they are the only ones who value academic achievement. You have whites who resent academic accomplishments by Asians. And you have both Asians and whites pointing to Asian academic achievement when their actual intent is simply to insult blacks and Hispanics. It is time to step up and recognize that all students deserve our attention and support, and that fetishizing Asians is having unlikely to advance that goal.

I think Asians do view academic achievement more than whites but that is not to say that there are whites who also don't give it emphasis as evidenced by all the discussions on the education forums. But the difference is that Asians are more single-minded about it - and are willing for their children to under-emphasize other non-academic pursuits unless it is a pursuit that is likely to enhance their chances of getting into a good college.

Instilling an expectation of excellence - for example, why an A- when you could have gotten an A is not of itself a bad thing if the kid is capable of getting an A.

I don't see any insults targeted at blacks or Hispanics ....... so I don't know where that comes from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ready to get zinged - Asian character traits: reserved, calm, quiet personality. The quiet well behaved child that follows instructions, works hard and gets good grades. However, it's often the smart child with the behavior issues in school that questions everything that creates and leads the company's.

My kid attended vast majority Asian American high school with whites/blacks/Hispanics being the minority in numbers. From what I have seen and heard, the non-Asian kids were mostly "reserved, calm and quiet" in and out of classroom. Asians were the most active and engaged in both classrooms and outside the classrooms. Asian kids ran the student government, newspaper, most clubs etc. Whites were mostly passive and quiet.

It's not the racial thing, it's the numbers thing.

[Anonymous]

Well speaking as a white American, albeit from an immigrant background and who grew up mostly abroad (in Asia to some extent), I'd say the difference really boils down to expectations. My parents made education absolutely central and expected perfect grades. If that didn't happen, we were to account for it and in those rare cases where it was really due to inability, we got as much help as we needed. We fit in well in e.g. Japan . Although unlike Asian parents (stereotyped here at least), mine were fairly hands off and let us do what we wished provided we met expectations (nor did it ever seem that my parents were somehow *emotionally* dependent on our success). I don't even remember it as pressure - this benchmark was just the way things were, like the daily schedule or the layout of the house. My sense of most non-Asian Americans is that this simply is not the case. An "A" is a great occurrence or an "extra"; you get awards for anything remotely noteworthy or for anything at all; you praise effort regardless how small or ineffectual; so on so on. In some ways, it seems like more pressure!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly find threads like this worthless. You have Asians who act like they are the only ones who value academic achievement. You have whites who resent academic accomplishments by Asians. And you have both Asians and whites pointing to Asian academic achievement when their actual intent is simply to insult blacks and Hispanics. It is time to step up and recognize that all students deserve our attention and support, and that fetishizing Asians is having unlikely to advance that goal.

I think Asians do view academic achievement more than whites but that is not to say that there are whites who also don't give it emphasis as evidenced by all the discussions on the education forums. But the difference is that Asians are more single-minded about it - and are willing for their children to under-emphasize other non-academic pursuits unless it is a pursuit that is likely to enhance their chances of getting into a good college.

Instilling an expectation of excellence - for example, why an A- when you could have gotten an A is not of itself a bad thing if the kid is capable of getting an A.

I don't see any insults targeted at blacks or Hispanics ....... so I don't know where that comes from.

Asians do value educations just as most Jewish people do.

In addition, Asians are kind of forced into academics due to institutionalized discrimination and stereotyping. Not a whole lot of chance Asians will succeed in acting, entertainment industry, pop music, broadcasting, media, politics, sport, national security etc. although tiny chance does exists. These fields are already competitive and being the smallest minority group with no political power or significant network dramatically decreases the chance of success even further to almost zero. What other fields are left? Medicine, engineering, computer science, pharmacy, law etc. which are more merit based than the other fields.

[Anonymous]

In addition, Asians are kind of forced into academics due to institutionalized discrimination and stereotyping. Not a whole lot of chance Asians will succeed in acting, entertainment industry, pop music, broadcasting, media, politics, sport, national security etc. although tiny chance does exists. These fields are already competitive and being the smallest minority group with no political power or significant network dramatically decreases the chance of success even further to almost zero. What other fields are left? Medicine, engineering, computer science, pharmacy, law etc. which are more merit based than the other fields.

By national security, do you mean the military? The military welcome people from all races and backgrounds and is considered to be a very merit-based environment.

[Anonymous]

Forget all the race discussion. I think Asians tend to have UMC (upper middle class) values. I'm UMC white and my parents did the same things that Asian families did. Experiences over things, grades were the most important. They value marriage, savings, good grades, etc.

[Anonymous]

Have you seen the Ashley Madison lists of 37 million? Not sure about men "valuing marriage." All races and incomes were creating Ashley Madison accounts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you seen the Ashley Madison lists of 37 million? Not sure about men "valuing marriage." All races and incomes were creating Ashley Madison accounts.

Maybe I will get flamed, but I see Ashley Madison as better than getting divorced. I am so unbelievably happy both DH and my parents stuck it out through the rough years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well speaking as a white American, albeit from an immigrant background and who grew up mostly abroad (in Asia to some extent), I'd say the difference really boils down to expectations. My parents made education absolutely central and expected perfect grades. If that didn't happen, we were to account for it and in those rare cases where it was really due to inability, we got as much help as we needed. We fit in well in e.g. Japan . Although unlike Asian parents (stereotyped here at least), mine were fairly hands off and let us do what we wished provided we met expectations (nor did it ever seem that my parents were somehow *emotionally* dependent on our success). I don't even remember it as pressure - this benchmark was just the way things were, like the daily schedule or the layout of the house. My sense of most non-Asian Americans is that this simply is not the case. An "A" is a great occurrence or an "extra"; you get awards for anything remotely noteworthy or for anything at all; you praise effort regardless how small or ineffectual; so on so on. In some ways, it seems like more pressure!

Very well put.. I agree.

I'm the Korean PP. It is definitely expectations. A lot of Asian parents ask "why A-" because they think with a lot of hard work, you can get that A+. I don't necessarily agree with this approach, but the expectation is that you will try your hardest, which they expect usually results in an A+.

I find it interesting that so many parents in MCPS (MD school district) are upset that the schools only strive for the kids to get a "P" (for "proficient' in a subject), and not an ES (that's "exceeds standards"), and many of these parents are not Asian. So, what gives? It's not OK for Asian parents to expect an A+, but it's also not ok for the schools to expect only "proficient"? Seems contradictory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forget all the race discussion. I think Asians tend to have UMC (upper middle class) values. I'm UMC white and my parents did the same things that Asian families did. Experiences over things, grades were the most important. They value marriage, savings, good grades, etc.

Or maybe just old-fashioned values. My parents were blue collar of Western European background with parents and/or grandparents who had been immigrants, and highly focused on academics. We were expected to do well in school, back in the days before grade inflation. They even moved to an area with better schools, at great financial sacrifice. Money was very tight, but they bought us books and science kits whenever they could.

My parents were two highly intelligent people who were always reading and learning new things, but had never been to college. Even though neither of them had gone to college, it was very clear to us kids that we were expected to do so.

I just don't think there is any particular culture that has a lock on academic achievement. We're all different and have our own strengths and talents.