Schools with high FARM rates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My two cents, racist and flameworthy as it will be:

We passed on a house in Hernando because while the specific neighborhood was nice, it was literally surrounded by lower income housing developments.

My point? I just didn't want to spend the next 20 years going to school events and being expected to pick up the slack with and for the families of line cooks, cleaning ladies/janitors and the like.

Hate on me all you want, but it's the reality. We want to live with those in our SES if we're going to (stretch) to buy a quarter of a million dollar home.

You mean a half million, right? My house in a somewhat heavily Hispanic school pyramid was assessed for nearly $600k last year. Not in Herndon.

We were looking at spending north of $1 million to buy into a better school district not in the boonies, but chose not to.

I actually meant three quarters of a mil. Nice catch, low-FARM upbringing I presume?

Hey, I saw it first.
European Capital low-FARM upbringing. Booyah.
Ugh, better keep pushing those workbooks, because my kids' schoool is 90+% FARMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High FARMS school parent here. I've experienced things like when parents and students are told that soda isn't allowed in school at lunch, they will put soda in plastic water bottles for the kids and send them off to school Positively infuriating.

It is and like I said earlier they don't understand why it is an issue. My parents would force feed my kid candy if I let them.

Well, I don't want my child exposed to other children who drink orange soda with their lunch every day. I don't want to SHELTER them from the fact that there are people who think that it is okay for their children to drink soda and juice all the time, either, but I don't want it in their face every day.

It is all of these LITTLE things that go unspoken that add up and make it tough to be a parent of a student at a higher FARMS school.

I agree and I am Hispanic and probably better educated than you. I don't mind that people don't want their kids exposed to bad habits or around kids that are not being raised the same way as their child. I don't want that for my child either. What I do mind is people seeing my child and assuming things about my child because she is of Hispanic descent. I mind that there is a broad brush condemnation of an entire people based on the actions of our poorer brethren without the realization that it is poverty and not race that it the factor causing all
Of these ills. I wouldn't want my child educated in Appalachia, as an example.

I agree that it sucks, but you are in good company. The Irish, Italians, Polish etc... The first generations all dealt with this. It's not going to be solved in one generation.

[Anonymous]

Exactly! The first generation gets shit on. We are a bicultural family: white American mom and Arab American dad. The school assumed many things about my kids-based on their names. Then...the school met me-a highly educated white female-asked who I was, and immediately changed their idea of what/who my kid was. IOW-the school was expecting a less educated female-perhaps a recent refugee.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My two cents, racist and flameworthy as it will be:

We passed on a house in Hernando because while the specific neighborhood was nice, it was literally surrounded by lower income housing developments.

My point? I just didn't want to spend the next 20 years going to school events and being expected to pick up the slack with and for the families of line cooks, cleaning ladies/janitors and the like.

Hate on me all you want, but it's the reality. We want to live with those in our SES if we're going to (stretch) to buy a quarter of a million dollar home.

You mean a half million, right? My house in a somewhat heavily Hispanic school pyramid was assessed for nearly $600k last year. Not in Herndon.

We were looking at spending north of $1 million to buy into a better school district not in the boonies, but chose not to.

I actually meant three quarters of a mil. Nice catch, low-FARM upbringing I presume?

Actually, yes, and no. I grew up in a dignified single (but high earning) parent household. I was always taken care of, fed well, and education and decorum were emphasized growing up, which I why it it hard to listen to excuses from others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Personally, I think one of the number one thing parents can do is learn English and practice speaking it and reading it every single day at home with their child. I always schools would communicate the importance of the parents speaking English to the child's ability to do well in school. ESL students who come into K with no English and with no practical way of learning and practicing it outside of school are not going to catch up or get ahead. They are always going to be lagging.

I also agree that the idea of "invested" in their kids education generally translates to the basics - the kid gets to school almost every day, is clean, clothed and is picked up on time. Honestly, for an immigrant parent who lived in a third world country and didn't get much of an education this might see this as amazing progress considering how they grew up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Personally, I think one of the number one thing parents can do is learn English and practice speaking it and reading it every single day at home with their child. I always schools would communicate the importance of the parents speaking English to the child's ability to do well in school. ESL students who come into K with no English and with no practical way of learning and practicing it outside of school are not going to catch up or get ahead. They are always going to be lagging.

I also agree that the idea of "invested" in their kids education generally translates to the basics - the kid gets to school almost every day, is clean, clothed and is picked up on time. Honestly, for an immigrant parent who lived in a third world country and didn't get much of an education this might see this as amazing progress considering how they grew up.

There really is a difference if home life is stable. Even if they are relatively poor. If the child feels secure and loved they are better in the class room. Tough thing is there often is a high amount of stress in a low income household. Very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Personally, I think one of the number one thing parents can do is learn English and practice speaking it and reading it every single day at home with their child. I always schools would communicate the importance of the parents speaking English to the child's ability to do well in school. ESL students who come into K with no English and with no practical way of learning and practicing it outside of school are not going to catch up or get ahead. They are always going to be lagging.

I also agree that the idea of "invested" in their kids education generally translates to the basics - the kid gets to school almost every day, is clean, clothed and is picked up on time. Honestly, for an immigrant parent who lived in a third world country and didn't get much of an education this might see this as amazing progress considering how they grew up.

We don't speak English to our child at all and he's doing amazingly well. Your comment shows an utter lack of knowledge about language acquisition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Personally, I think one of the number one thing parents can do is learn English and practice speaking it and reading it every single day at home with their child. I always schools would communicate the importance of the parents speaking English to the child's ability to do well in school. ESL students who come into K with no English and with no practical way of learning and practicing it outside of school are not going to catch up or get ahead. They are always going to be lagging.

I also agree that the idea of "invested" in their kids education generally translates to the basics - the kid gets to school almost every day, is clean, clothed and is picked up on time. Honestly, for an immigrant parent who lived in a third world country and didn't get much of an education this might see this as amazing progress considering how they grew up.

We don't speak English to our child at all and he's doing amazingly well. Your comment shows an utter lack of knowledge about language acquisition.

Seems like you are literate with some amount of formal education. Not the demo we are discussing,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Personally, I think one of the number one thing parents can do is learn English and practice speaking it and reading it every single day at home with their child. I always schools would communicate the importance of the parents speaking English to the child's ability to do well in school. ESL students who come into K with no English and with no practical way of learning and practicing it outside of school are not going to catch up or get ahead. They are always going to be lagging.

I also agree that the idea of "invested" in their kids education generally translates to the basics - the kid gets to school almost every day, is clean, clothed and is picked up on time. Honestly, for an immigrant parent who lived in a third world country and didn't get much of an education this might see this as amazing progress considering how they grew up.

Complete ignorance. Parent knowledge of English has NOTHING to do with the student's success. It's their educational level and literacy level. A kid can no zero language when they get to K, but if the parents are educated and read to the child (in their own language or otherwise) and have books in the house, then the child will do well. The parent does not have to speak English well, only support the child's education. Plenty of Koreans in TJ with parents who barely speak English (I teach ESL to adults and have a lot of them in my class). The majority of ESL children in fcps were actually born in the US, and most of them don't even speak another language proficiently. The ones who struggle have parents who can't even read, even though their conversational English is probably passable at least. They can't read in ANY language. It would never occur to them to spend money on books, and they don't go to the library. The kids have poor nutrition and a host of problems caused by lack of medical care, prenatal care, parents' poor health, and so on. And that's assuming these are the relatively well-off ESL/FARM kids and not the ones who are sleeping on the floor of a rented room with 10 other kids in a crack house.

[Anonymous]

Complete ignorance. Parent knowledge of English has NOTHING to do with the student's success. It's their educational level and literacy level. A kid can no zero language when they get to K, but if the parents are educated and read to the child (in their own language or otherwise) and have books in the house, then the child will do well. The parent does not have to speak English well, only support the child's education. Plenty of Koreans in TJ with parents who barely speak English (I teach ESL to adults and have a lot of them in my class). The majority of ESL children in fcps were actually born in the US, and most of them don't even speak another language proficiently. The ones who struggle have parents who can't even read, even though their conversational English is probably passable at least. They can't read in ANY language. It would never occur to them to spend money on books, and they don't go to the library. The kids have poor nutrition and a host of problems caused by lack of medical care, prenatal care, parents' poor health, and so on. And that's assuming these are the relatively well-off ESL/FARM kids and not the ones who are sleeping on the floor of a rented room with 10 other kids in a crack house.

Agree with you on the basics. However, I bet that over 95% of those Korean kids at TJ with parents who are not fluent in English took prep classes for TJ for years before they got there. Lots and lots of writing prep classes, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Personally, I think one of the number one thing parents can do is learn English and practice speaking it and reading it every single day at home with their child. I always schools would communicate the importance of the parents speaking English to the child's ability to do well in school. ESL students who come into K with no English and with no practical way of learning and practicing it outside of school are not going to catch up or get ahead. They are always going to be lagging.

I also agree that the idea of "invested" in their kids education generally translates to the basics - the kid gets to school almost every day, is clean, clothed and is picked up on time. Honestly, for an immigrant parent who lived in a third world country and didn't get much of an education this might see this as amazing progress considering how they grew up.

Complete ignorance. Parent knowledge of English has NOTHING to do with the student's success. It's their educational level and literacy level. A kid can no zero language when they get to K, but if the parents are educated and read to the child (in their own language or otherwise) and have books in the house, then the child will do well. The parent does not have to speak English well, only support the child's education. Plenty of Koreans in TJ with parents who barely speak English (I teach ESL to adults and have a lot of them in my class). The majority of ESL children in fcps were actually born in the US, and most of them don't even speak another language proficiently. The ones who struggle have parents who can't even read, even though their conversational English is probably passable at least. They can't read in ANY language. It would never occur to them to spend money on books, and they don't go to the library. The kids have poor nutrition and a host of problems caused by lack of medical care, prenatal care, parents' poor health, and so on. And that's assuming these are the relatively well-off ESL/FARM kids and not the ones who are sleeping on the floor of a rented room with 10 other kids in a crack house.

Agree 100%. So many Indian kids are doing great in school and go on to become successful. Many of their parents can't speak English well nor do they speak to their kids in English at home for fear of the kids not being able to speak the mother tongue. However in India and Pakistan education is everything and the families support their kids completely.

Pretty ignorant for anyone to think you must speak English in the home for kids to become successful. Children pick up on English in school eventually anyway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Personally, I think one of the number one thing parents can do is learn English and practice speaking it and reading it every single day at home with their child. I always schools would communicate the importance of the parents speaking English to the child's ability to do well in school. ESL students who come into K with no English and with no practical way of learning and practicing it outside of school are not going to catch up or get ahead. They are always going to be lagging.

I also agree that the idea of "invested" in their kids education generally translates to the basics - the kid gets to school almost every day, is clean, clothed and is picked up on time. Honestly, for an immigrant parent who lived in a third world country and didn't get much of an education this might see this as amazing progress considering how they grew up.

Complete ignorance. Parent knowledge of English has NOTHING to do with the student's success. It's their educational level and literacy level. A kid can no zero language when they get to K, but if the parents are educated and read to the child (in their own language or otherwise) and have books in the house, then the child will do well. The parent does not have to speak English well, only support the child's education. Plenty of Koreans in TJ with parents who barely speak English (I teach ESL to adults and have a lot of them in my class). The majority of ESL children in fcps were actually born in the US, and most of them don't even speak another language proficiently. The ones who struggle have parents who can't even read, even though their conversational English is probably passable at least. They can't read in ANY language. It would never occur to them to spend money on books, and they don't go to the library. The kids have poor nutrition and a host of problems caused by lack of medical care, prenatal care, parents' poor health, and so on. And that's assuming these are the relatively well-off ESL/FARM kids and not the ones who are sleeping on the floor of a rented room with 10 other kids in a crack house.

So should we avoid schools with an overabundance of certain races?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Complete ignorance. Parent knowledge of English has NOTHING to do with the student's success. It's their educational level and literacy level. A kid can no zero language when they get to K, but if the parents are educated and read to the child (in their own language or otherwise) and have books in the house, then the child will do well. The parent does not have to speak English well, only support the child's education. Plenty of Koreans in TJ with parents who barely speak English (I teach ESL to adults and have a lot of them in my class). The majority of ESL children in fcps were actually born in the US, and most of them don't even speak another language proficiently. The ones who struggle have parents who can't even read, even though their conversational English is probably passable at least. They can't read in ANY language. It would never occur to them to spend money on books, and they don't go to the library. The kids have poor nutrition and a host of problems caused by lack of medical care, prenatal care, parents' poor health, and so on. And that's assuming these are the relatively well-off ESL/FARM kids and not the ones who are sleeping on the floor of a rented room with 10 other kids in a crack house.

Agree with you on the basics. However, I bet that over 95% of those Korean kids at TJ with parents who are not fluent in English took prep classes for TJ for years before they got there. Lots and lots of writing prep classes, too.

I know they did. And if they couldn't afford a class, then mom went out and bought prep books and made them study, staring about 1st grade with the Naglieri actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Personally, I think one of the number one thing parents can do is learn English and practice speaking it and reading it every single day at home with their child. I always schools would communicate the importance of the parents speaking English to the child's ability to do well in school. ESL students who come into K with no English and with no practical way of learning and practicing it outside of school are not going to catch up or get ahead. They are always going to be lagging.

I also agree that the idea of "invested" in their kids education generally translates to the basics - the kid gets to school almost every day, is clean, clothed and is picked up on time. Honestly, for an immigrant parent who lived in a third world country and didn't get much of an education this might see this as amazing progress considering how they grew up.

Complete ignorance. Parent knowledge of English has NOTHING to do with the student's success. It's their educational level and literacy level. A kid can no zero language when they get to K, but if the parents are educated and read to the child (in their own language or otherwise) and have books in the house, then the child will do well. The parent does not have to speak English well, only support the child's education. Plenty of Koreans in TJ with parents who barely speak English (I teach ESL to adults and have a lot of them in my class). The majority of ESL children in fcps were actually born in the US, and most of them don't even speak another language proficiently. The ones who struggle have parents who can't even read, even though their conversational English is probably passable at least. They can't read in ANY language. It would never occur to them to spend money on books, and they don't go to the library. The kids have poor nutrition and a host of problems caused by lack of medical care, prenatal care, parents' poor health, and so on. And that's assuming these are the relatively well-off ESL/FARM kids and not the ones who are sleeping on the floor of a rented room with 10 other kids in a crack house.

So should we avoid schools with an overabundance of certain races?

That was my post. I'm not sure where I mentioned race. I said language doesn't matter in student success, education and support matter. Whether you should avoid schools with an over-abundance of anything is a totally different question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Personally, I think one of the number one thing parents can do is learn English and practice speaking it and reading it every single day at home with their child. I always schools would communicate the importance of the parents speaking English to the child's ability to do well in school. ESL students who come into K with no English and with no practical way of learning and practicing it outside of school are not going to catch up or get ahead. They are always going to be lagging.

I also agree that the idea of "invested" in their kids education generally translates to the basics - the kid gets to school almost every day, is clean, clothed and is picked up on time. Honestly, for an immigrant parent who lived in a third world country and didn't get much of an education this might see this as amazing progress considering how they grew up.

Complete ignorance. Parent knowledge of English has NOTHING to do with the student's success. It's their educational level and literacy level. A kid can no zero language when they get to K, but if the parents are educated and read to the child (in their own language or otherwise) and have books in the house, then the child will do well. The parent does not have to speak English well, only support the child's education. Plenty of Koreans in TJ with parents who barely speak English (I teach ESL to adults and have a lot of them in my class). The majority of ESL children in fcps were actually born in the US, and most of them don't even speak another language proficiently. The ones who struggle have parents who can't even read, even though their conversational English is probably passable at least. They can't read in ANY language. It would never occur to them to spend money on books, and they don't go to the library. The kids have poor nutrition and a host of problems caused by lack of medical care, prenatal care, parents' poor health, and so on. And that's assuming these are the relatively well-off ESL/FARM kids and not the ones who are sleeping on the floor of a rented room with 10 other kids in a crack house.

So should we avoid schools with an overabundance of certain races?

In case you are referring to Hispanics, for like the third time, let me repeat that not everyone that comes from a Spanish Speaking county comes from a country with low literacy rates. The low literacy rate is true only for some countries. Actually some Spanish speaking countires rank higher in terms of reading and math skills than the U.S. but I digress.