Schools with high FARM rates

[Anonymous]

Interesting discussion. What do people consider "high FARMS rates"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting discussion. What do people consider "high FARMS rates"?

Some people don't like more than a small percentage, under 10%....I'm more amenable to anything under 50%.

Since income is not verified for FARMS in FCPS, I suspect that a LOT of parents LIE to get the benefits. I would be more concerned with my child going to school with hordes of other children whose parents think that it is okay to defraud the local and federal government.

[Anonymous]

The title I school near our school (which is an aap center) actually has BETTER activities than we do. Their PTA events are very well attended. Ours? Nope.

So it doesn't always mean zero parental and community involvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting discussion. What do people consider "high FARMS rates"?

I've heard than anything >40% approaches "concentrated poverty" and starts affecting quality of education. I'd have to read up on this more, but I suspect it also starts affecting white/ Asian flight out of those schools, too. I can tell you my kids' school in FCPS went from ~5% FARMS to 30% FARMS overnight due to redistricting a couple years back (THANKS KATHY SMITH!!) and I've seen some changes, but nothing that's made me want to pull my kids out. The biggest issue AFAIK is that the test scores tanked pretty hard because we got a lot more ESL kids and that affected property values so obviously some people looking to sell their homes were not pleased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So i've been told that schools with high FARMS rates tend to perform poorly. Excuse my ignorance on this matter, but how does this effect students that are from middle/upper class households? Especially those that come from a home with academic support. Does a school like this hurt them in the long run or does it affect college admissions in any way?

Thanks.

My twins went to a Title I school last year for kindergarten. I found that the education was ok - but mostly a review of what they learned in pre-k at a private daycare. (I figured that would be the case for any kindergarten). What I did not like was what slang they came home with and some of the concepts they were exposed to. I found it very difficult as a parent to impress upon my kids that we speak Standard American English and that is what is appropriate for our family vs. how others speak while trying to make sure they weren't judging others. My last straw was when my 6 year old asked me what sex was because she heard about it from a friend. I figured that would happen eventually - but not in K. This all sounds incredibly elitist - but I don't care. I want my kids to have the best opportunities and be in the best environment possible. The school just didn't cut it.

We're moving to a new school district. They'll be going to a good school that's actually more diverse in terms of ethnicity but less diverse SES.

Well, to be fair, that happens everywhere. My 5 yr old came home from her well regarded NOVA private school asking the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So i've been told that schools with high FARMS rates tend to perform poorly. Excuse my ignorance on this matter, but how does this effect students that are from middle/upper class households? Especially those that come from a home with academic support. Does a school like this hurt them in the long run or does it affect college admissions in any way?

Thanks.

I teach in a high FARMS elementary school (appr. 95% qualify for free lunch). I can't answer questions about college admissions but I would imagine the HS our school feeds into has fewer AP/IB classes. Many of our students read below grade level. They start out behind and all of their elementary school years is basically playing catch up. Our district has no GT or advanced program until MS and then it is only at a few schools (all of them are far away from my school). In fact, during our re-accreditation, we were marked down for not offering enough enrichment for high achievers. When more than half of the class is below grade level, nearly all of the energy goes toward bringing those students up to grade level. The few students who may be above grade level don't have a peer group. This year, we will have a plan for those students. I would not choose to send my child to a school like mine. The teachers are very strong and experienced but also exhausted by March/April. I think your child would do fine up until middle school when his/her peer group would begin to trump you as parents. None of my students have parents who graduated from a 4 year college. The only people they know who have graduated from college are their teachers. We can talk college up all we want but it's an uphill battle all of the way. Do you want your child to go to college? Do you want them socializing with kids who have no plans to go?

[Anonymous]

My experience - three children, my oldest is now in high school. Elementary, middle and high school are all above 50% FARMS.

Good: in elementary, the class sizes are very small. My oldest only had 14 in first grade. My kids have had several great teachers who had control of the classrooms. Those years, there was differentiation and I felt they were getting a great education. One year, my middle son was pulled out by the reading specialist to get extra help. He was reading way above grade level. This past year, my youngest was pulled out weekly for advanced word study. The two oldest started compacted math in 4th grade (my youngest is not a math kid). In the middle school and high school, my oldest is taking all honors. Almost all of his classmates are strong, motivated learners. I went on a field trip when he was in 8th grade to the Baltimore Science Center. His classmates were very polite, well behaved children. His high school is definitely a school within a school and I'm confident he'll be well prepared for college.

Bad: Most of the children in our neighborhood go to other schools. My children have very few neighborhood friends, because they don't know them. They have very few friends from school. Most of their friends are kids they've met in outside activities and I have to drive them so they can get together. Most years, the elementary school has had very few after school enrichment activities. Some years, we haven't had any. Other years, we might have one or two clubs. We have very few parent volunteers. I think we have a high turnover rate of teachers. I've had a child at the elementary school for 11 years - this year there are only 3 classroom teachers who were there when my oldest started kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

I teach in a high FARMS elementary school (appr. 95% qualify for free lunch). I can't answer questions about college admissions but I would imagine the HS our school feeds into has fewer AP/IB classes. Many of our students read below grade level. They start out behind and all of their elementary school years is basically playing catch up. Our district has no GT or advanced program until MS and then it is only at a few schools (all of them are far away from my school). In fact, during our re-accreditation, we were marked down for not offering enough enrichment for high achievers. When more than half of the class is below grade level, nearly all of the energy goes toward bringing those students up to grade level. The few students who may be above grade level don't have a peer group. This year, we will have a plan for those students. I would not choose to send my child to a school like mine. The teachers are very strong and experienced but also exhausted by March/April. I think your child would do fine up until middle school when his/her peer group would begin to trump you as parents. None of my students have parents who graduated from a 4 year college. The only people they know who have graduated from college are their teachers. We can talk college up all we want but it's an uphill battle all of the way. Do you want your child to go to college? Do you want them socializing with kids who have no plans to go?

Sad. I taught in such a school. I had one child whose parents graduated from college. Her father was a newspaper reporter and her mom was a nurse. They believed they were doing the right thing. I taught first grade. At the end of the year, they came and told me they were moving. They admitted that they wanted to keep their child in the school(they were very liberal politically), but realized it just wouldn't work for her. I told them that they were doing the right thing.
I would never have sent my child to that school. It wasn't the school, it was the needs of the kids. A teacher can provide a challenge for a child, but you cannot provide competition. It was also a very rough school. Behavior and social skills were terrible. Kids were sweet, though.

[Anonymous]

My kids are still in elementary, but we ended up choosing between a neighborhood where the ES was high FARMS but the MS and HS were less so, or a neighborhood where the ES was low FARMS but the MS was much higher.

We chose the high FARMS elementary school on the theory that it would be easier to supplement as necessary, and to keep close tabs on friends, at the earlier grades.

Honestly, it was a good choice. The FARMS kids are poor, but extremely hard-working with super strict parents at home (mostly Ethiopian and Middle Eastern immigrant families), so discipline is no more an issue than at the fancy private preschool that my kids went to before this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My experience - three children, my oldest is now in high school. Elementary, middle and high school are all above 50% FARMS.

Good: in elementary, the class sizes are very small. My oldest only had 14 in first grade. My kids have had several great teachers who had control of the classrooms. Those years, there was differentiation and I felt they were getting a great education. One year, my middle son was pulled out by the reading specialist to get extra help. He was reading way above grade level. This past year, my youngest was pulled out weekly for advanced word study. The two oldest started compacted math in 4th grade (my youngest is not a math kid). In the middle school and high school, my oldest is taking all honors. Almost all of his classmates are strong, motivated learners. I went on a field trip when he was in 8th grade to the Baltimore Science Center. His classmates were very polite, well behaved children. His high school is definitely a school within a school and I'm confident he'll be well prepared for college.

Bad: Most of the children in our neighborhood go to other schools. My children have very few neighborhood friends, because they don't know them. They have very few friends from school. Most of their friends are kids they've met in outside activities and I have to drive them so they can get together. Most years, the elementary school has had very few after school enrichment activities. Some years, we haven't had any. Other years, we might have one or two clubs. We have very few parent volunteers. I think we have a high turnover rate of teachers. I've had a child at the elementary school for 11 years - this year there are only 3 classroom teachers who were there when my oldest started kindergarten.

Would you mind sharing the school system? This sounds like they have their act together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are still in elementary, but we ended up choosing between a neighborhood where the ES was high FARMS but the MS and HS were less so, or a neighborhood where the ES was low FARMS but the MS was much higher.

We chose the high FARMS elementary school on the theory that it would be easier to supplement as necessary, and to keep close tabs on friends, at the earlier grades.

Honestly, it was a good choice. The FARMS kids are poor, but extremely hard-working with super strict parents at home (mostly Ethiopian and Middle Eastern immigrant families), so discipline is no more an issue than at the fancy private preschool that my kids went to before this.

All the middle eastern parents near me are rich, I didn't realize there were poor ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are still in elementary, but we ended up choosing between a neighborhood where the ES was high FARMS but the MS and HS were less so, or a neighborhood where the ES was low FARMS but the MS was much higher.

We chose the high FARMS elementary school on the theory that it would be easier to supplement as necessary, and to keep close tabs on friends, at the earlier grades.

Honestly, it was a good choice. The FARMS kids are poor, but extremely hard-working with super strict parents at home (mostly Ethiopian and Middle Eastern immigrant families), so discipline is no more an issue than at the fancy private preschool that my kids went to before this.

All the middle eastern parents near me are rich, I didn't realize there were poor ones.

Have driven around four mile run or bailey's cross roads?

[Anonymous]

The PPs bring up a very good point. The thing is that not all poverty is equal, and there are times when family culture and expectations means more than how much money the family has at the moment.

A kid who comes from a family with generational poverty, lots of bad behavior/role model examples and scarcity of good ones with little to no familial expectations is likely to never do well at school.

A kid who is just as poor but comes from a family of recent immigrants with strong family values, importance of education and strong role models around (when the kid can see that hard work leads to success) is a lot more likely to do well at school. This is especially true when parents have at least some level of education and family poverty is mainly due to having to start over in the new country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The PPs bring up a very good point. The thing is that not all poverty is equal, and there are times when family culture and expectations means more than how much money the family has at the moment.

A kid who comes from a family with generational poverty, lots of bad behavior/role model examples and scarcity of good ones with little to no familial expectations is likely to never do well at school.

A kid who is just as poor but comes from a family of recent immigrants with strong family values, importance of education and strong role models around (when the kid can see that hard work leads to success) is a lot more likely to do well at school. This is especially true when parents have at least some level of education and family poverty is mainly due to having to start over in the new country.

This. Unfortunately test scores and data don't break this down. You have to visit the school
And see what kind of a community you are dealing with.

[Anonymous]

The above is true. I went to school with the children of immigrants and they held education in high regard. These friends all went on to college. For many, English was not their first language. So yes, it depends on the attitudes of the parents, poor or not.

My experience in our title 1 school was much like those of previous posters. Some classes were better than others as far as discipline, but what bothered me was when I would ask my children, who were above grade level readers, what they did during reading time, they usually said they were reading to someone else (who usually reads easier books). When some samples of writing came home (infrequently) with the same mistakes as the last time, I would ask if the teacher gave feedback and the answer was, "No. The teacher knows I can write. She's helping other people." My other child was left on the one of the few working computers many times. Assignments that my older one had to do were dropped by the time by younger one came through only a few years later. It seemed that as poverty crept up, expectations went down. And, to be fair, at the time, poverty had doubled to over 50% in five years due to a boundary change. The teachers were so warm and friendly. I just think they were overwhelmed.