Schools with high FARM rates

[Anonymous]

This is why FCPS has AAP and why getting on top for many parents-myself included.

[Anonymous]

^ getting in is top

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who thinks the teacher makes the difference:

Thanks so much for joining the ranks of idiots who feel teachers are responsible and accountable for all of society's ills by being the "better teacher." I rather doubt you are a teacher or that you actually teach in a high poverty school. In fact, I will call you out as a liar.

Behavior issues everywhere? Yes! However it is the difference between silliness, hyperactivity, and gang fights. Maryland, and all counties and Md have revised their discipline policies to such an extent that few kids are ever disciplined and they can really take over a class. Kids from poverty GENERALLY, but certainly NOT ALL, have low engagement because of issues that are comorbid with poverty- abuse, poor nutrition, negligence, health issues, and lack of parent involvement. This is not always because parents do not want to be involved- they can't- they are working, they are embarrassed,they do not speak the language, they have low literacy, they cannot afford technology, they are depressed, they don't have enough food, they don't have a fucking car, they have poor parental models themselves, they were 14 when they had the child and someone is still raising them and all of the other kids they've had since then, they are in and out of the prison system, they are on drugs, they are fired or lose their jobs frequently, they have a cell phone they cannot pay for all the time, they have to keep moving because they are in HUD housing, they need a cigarette and that will ALWAYS trump breakfast in the house, there is a cadre of " uncles" in and out of the house ( and they are not uncles...).

Kids in poverty have been raising themselves since they were able to walk. Life is generally on their terms. Following rules in a school rarely enter their world view- it's all about survival to them..every damn minute of the day. So take your middle class values and find another occupation to trash and blame, but a parent does need to understand that a high poverty school does not always mean that their child will learn to get along with the whole world- the reality is that so many ancillary resources are spent in dealing with emotional and behavioral issues that the curriculum very well takes a back seat. Any teacher in a high FARMS school will tell you this. It is rewarding on many levels, but it is an exhausting and perilous job- and teachers are increasingly held accountable for what they cannot control.

Thanks for writing this. I am not a teacher, but have friends who have worked in hard to serve areas. This has been their experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who thinks the teacher makes the difference:

Thanks so much for joining the ranks of idiots who feel teachers are responsible and accountable for all of society's ills by being the "better teacher." I rather doubt you are a teacher or that you actually teach in a high poverty school. In fact, I will call you out as a liar.

Behavior issues everywhere? Yes! However it is the difference between silliness, hyperactivity, and gang fights. Maryland, and all counties and Md have revised their discipline policies to such an extent that few kids are ever disciplined and they can really take over a class. Kids from poverty GENERALLY, but certainly NOT ALL, have low engagement because of issues that are comorbid with poverty- abuse, poor nutrition, negligence, health issues, and lack of parent involvement. This is not always because parents do not want to be involved- they can't- they are working, they are embarrassed,they do not speak the language, they have low literacy, they cannot afford technology, they are depressed, they don't have enough food, they don't have a fucking car, they have poor parental models themselves, they were 14 when they had the child and someone is still raising them and all of the other kids they've had since then, they are in and out of the prison system, they are on drugs, they are fired or lose their jobs frequently, they have a cell phone they cannot pay for all the time, they have to keep moving because they are in HUD housing, they need a cigarette and that will ALWAYS trump breakfast in the house, there is a cadre of " uncles" in and out of the house ( and they are not uncles...).

Kids in poverty have been raising themselves since they were able to walk. Life is generally on their terms. Following rules in a school rarely enter their world view- it's all about survival to them..every damn minute of the day. So take your middle class values and find another occupation to trash and blame, but a parent does need to understand that a high poverty school does not always mean that their child will learn to get along with the whole world- the reality is that so many ancillary resources are spent in dealing with emotional and behavioral issues that the curriculum very well takes a back seat. Any teacher in a high FARMS school will tell you this. It is rewarding on many levels, but it is an exhausting and perilous job- and teachers are increasingly held accountable for what they cannot control.

I don’t really care if you believe me or not.
You can google the research - and there is a TON of it out there.
The most significant factor in improving student learning is the teacher.
Here is just one article that outlines some of the research.
http://www.newteacher.com/pdf/NCPrincipalsExecProgram.pdf
And, yes, I have taught in several high “FARMS” schools. (I hate that acronym)
And, I never said that the teacher is responsible for all of society’s ills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who thinks the teacher makes the difference:

Thanks so much for joining the ranks of idiots who feel teachers are responsible and accountable for all of society's ills by being the "better teacher." I rather doubt you are a teacher or that you actually teach in a high poverty school. In fact, I will call you out as a liar.

Behavior issues everywhere? Yes! However it is the difference between silliness, hyperactivity, and gang fights. Maryland, and all counties and Md have revised their discipline policies to such an extent that few kids are ever disciplined and they can really take over a class. Kids from poverty GENERALLY, but certainly NOT ALL, have low engagement because of issues that are comorbid with poverty- abuse, poor nutrition, negligence, health issues, and lack of parent involvement. This is not always because parents do not want to be involved- they can't- they are working, they are embarrassed,they do not speak the language, they have low literacy, they cannot afford technology, they are depressed, they don't have enough food, they don't have a fucking car, they have poor parental models themselves, they were 14 when they had the child and someone is still raising them and all of the other kids they've had since then, they are in and out of the prison system, they are on drugs, they are fired or lose their jobs frequently, they have a cell phone they cannot pay for all the time, they have to keep moving because they are in HUD housing, they need a cigarette and that will ALWAYS trump breakfast in the house, there is a cadre of " uncles" in and out of the house ( and they are not uncles...).

Kids in poverty have been raising themselves since they were able to walk. Life is generally on their terms. Following rules in a school rarely enter their world view- it's all about survival to them..every damn minute of the day. So take your middle class values and find another occupation to trash and blame, but a parent does need to understand that a high poverty school does not always mean that their child will learn to get along with the whole world- the reality is that so many ancillary resources are spent in dealing with emotional and behavioral issues that the curriculum very well takes a back seat. Any teacher in a high FARMS school will tell you this. It is rewarding on many levels, but it is an exhausting and perilous job- and teachers are increasingly held accountable for what they cannot control.

I don’t really care if you believe me or not.
You can google the research - and there is a TON of it out there.
The most significant factor in improving student learning is the teacher.
Here is just one article that outlines some of the research.
http://www.newteacher.com/pdf/NCPrincipalsExecProgram.pdf
And, yes, I have taught in several high “FARMS” schools. (I hate that acronym)
And, I never said that the teacher is responsible for all of society’s ills.

That link is not a link to anything halfway professional or legitimate.

[Anonymous]

My two cents, racist and flameworthy as it will be:

We passed on a house in Hernando because while the specific neighborhood was nice, it was literally surrounded by lower income housing developments.

My point? I just didn't want to spend the next 20 years going to school events and being expected to pick up the slack with and for the families of line cooks, cleaning ladies/janitors and the like.

Hate on me all you want, but it's the reality. We want to live with those in our SES if we're going to (stretch) to buy a quarter of a million dollar home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My two cents, racist and flameworthy as it will be:

We passed on a house in Hernando because while the specific neighborhood was nice, it was literally surrounded by lower income housing developments.

My point? I just didn't want to spend the next 20 years going to school events and being expected to pick up the slack with and for the families of line cooks, cleaning ladies/janitors and the like.

Hate on me all you want, but it's the reality. We want to live with those in our SES if we're going to (stretch) to buy a quarter of a million dollar home.

Tee hee hee. Come on over to DC and stretch to buy a totally renovated 500sqft efficiency studio in a transitioning neighborhood with that money. You'll live next door to... middle class families in $800k homes and multigenerational households of "line cooks, cleaning ladies/janitors and the like", all living together in harmony. The recent immigrant cleaning lady moms usually pick up the slack for the middle class working moms who don't have time to make food for the bake sale, and the working moms make the photocopies for the fliers.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

I think this all depends on the percentage of ESOL students in the mainstream classroom and their levels of English. If there are many newcomers, it is an issue for the teacher and that can be difficult. Let's face it. No matter how much "differentiation" is taking place, there are a finite number of teacher minutes in the day. Those minutes are precious and if there are a lot of needy children, the needy ones are going to get the minutes. If your child is an independent learner, this will not be a problem. However, if your child needs attention as well, this will be a problem. I tend to think that the average kids suffer more in this situation (as the poster with the average child and her cousin commented above).

[Anonymous]

I don’t really care if you believe me or not.
You can google the research - and there is a TON of it out there.
The most significant factor in improving student learning is the teacher.
Here is just one article that outlines some of the research.
http://www.newteacher.com/pdf/NCPrincipalsExecProgram.pdf
And, yes, I have taught in several high “FARMS” schools. (I hate that acronym)
And, I never said that the teacher is responsible for all of society’s ills.

This is not true at all. The teacher has less than 18% significance and in some studies it is as low as 9%. I will look for the studies, but I have read a lot and this is pretty much it. And it really supports my own experience as a teacher of 27 years. I will look for a link.

[Anonymous]

I don’t really care if you believe me or not.
You can google the research - and there is a TON of it out there.
The most significant factor in improving student learning is the teacher.
Here is just one article that outlines some of the research.
http://www.newteacher.com/pdf/NCPrincipalsExecProgram.pdf
And, yes, I have taught in several high “FARMS” schools. (I hate that acronym)
And, I never said that the teacher is responsible for all of society’s ills.

This is not true at all. The teacher has less than 18% significance and in some studies it is as low as 9%. I will look for the studies, but I have read a lot and this is pretty much it. And it really supports my own experience as a teacher of 27 years. I will look for a link.

[Anonymous]

Alexander notes that Goldhaber and his colleagues have concluded is that "that around 9 percent of variation in student achievement is due to teacher characteristics. About 60 percent of variation is explainable by individual student characteristics, family characteristics, and such variables. All school input combined (teacher quality, class variables, etc.) account for approximately 21 percent of student outcomes." So even though teachers are the most important school-based factor in student achievement (however you measure it), a teacher's influence pales in comparison to factors from outside the school. So now you can explain to me the logic of how student testing and observations should count 100% of a teacher's evaluation for effectiveness when teachers, even the best ones, account for less than 10 percent of student achievement.

From:

http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2012/04/how-much-teachers-affect-student.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

FWIW, this has not been my experience. The kids are pulled out for ESOL, and they learn English quickly. Some of this will depend on whether you live somewhere with a constant stream of new immigrants. Our neighborhood has sort of mid-priced affordable apartment buildings. So, around $1600 for a 2 bedroom. At that price point, you get working class families with low but not nonexistent English language skills, so their kids might enter kindy needing ESOL but eventually age out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is why FCPS has AAP and why getting on top for many parents-myself included.

I assure you that getting into AAP does not insulate your child from the kids with behavioral problems! Oh my. Yes, these are kids whose parents value education... no doubt. But, there are a lot of behavioral problems (some pretty significant) in AAP. They also tend to have less support (no teacher aides, less interest in IEPs) b/c some administrators think -- if you're doing well enough for AAP there must not be any need for special services. AAP classrooms can be sort of a wild west of eccentric kids... not all of them... but it's been interesting to see.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, this has not been my experience. The kids are pulled out for ESOL, and they learn English quickly. Some of this will depend on whether you live somewhere with a constant stream of new immigrants. Our neighborhood has sort of mid-priced affordable apartment buildings. So, around $1600 for a 2 bedroom. At that price point, you get working class families with low but not nonexistent English language skills, so their kids might enter kindy needing ESOL but eventually age out of it.

Yes, not all kids enter with nonexistent English skills only in kindergarten. Many with nonexistent English skills enter in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc., etc. Immigrants come at all times and with kids at all ages. Also, an apartment community is transient and probably more likely to have this constant stream.

If they only entered in kindergarten with no English skills, there would be no problem. Kids at that age pick up the language quickly and learn to read along with all their peers. It is the later entrants who struggle more, especially if they have not been schooled in their home language.