Schools with high FARM rates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Of course, this is true, but these things aren't black/white, they are a continuum. A kid who comes from a home of recent immigrants, possibly with language barriers or lack of formal education, is still going to benefit from a two-parent home, from good nutrition and adequate rest, from good role models, from parental expectation to succeed, from the guidance that hard work = success, from good behavior models. The benefits won't be as high as those enjoyed by children of middle- to upper class professional American families, but it will be miles better than kids from families of generational poverty where no one ever went to college, no expectation of success, no good role models, teen and unwed pregnancy/criminal record abound etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So i've been told that schools with high FARMS rates tend to perform poorly. Excuse my ignorance on this matter, but how does this effect students that are from middle/upper class households? Especially those that come from a home with academic support. Does a school like this hurt them in the long run or does it affect college admissions in any way?

Thanks.

My twins went to a Title I school last year for kindergarten. I found that the education was ok - but mostly a review of what they learned in pre-k at a private daycare. (I figured that would be the case for any kindergarten). What I did not like was what slang they came home with and some of the concepts they were exposed to. I found it very difficult as a parent to impress upon my kids that we speak Standard American English and that is what is appropriate for our family vs. how others speak while trying to make sure they weren't judging others. My last straw was when my 6 year old asked me what sex was because she heard about it from a friend. I figured that would happen eventually - but not in K. This all sounds incredibly elitist - but I don't care. I want my kids to have the best opportunities and be in the best environment possible. The school just didn't cut it.

We're moving to a new school district. They'll be going to a good school that's actually more diverse in terms of ethnicity but less diverse SES.

Well, to be fair, that happens everywhere. My 5 yr old came home from her well regarded NOVA private school asking the same thing.

Probably, but that was just the straw the broke the camel's back. There were a myriad of other issues that built up to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My two cents, racist and flameworthy as it will be:

We passed on a house in Hernando because while the specific neighborhood was nice, it was literally surrounded by lower income housing developments.

My point? I just didn't want to spend the next 20 years going to school events and being expected to pick up the slack with and for the families of line cooks, cleaning ladies/janitors and the like.

Hate on me all you want, but it's the reality. We want to live with those in our SES if we're going to (stretch) to buy a quarter of a million dollar home.

You mean a half million, right? My house in a somewhat heavily Hispanic school pyramid was assessed for nearly $600k last year. Not in Herndon.

We were looking at spending north of $1 million to buy into a better school district not in the boonies, but chose not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

Correct, many see public school as a place to watch their children and feed them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Of course, this is true, but these things aren't black/white, they are a continuum. A kid who comes from a home of recent immigrants, possibly with language barriers or lack of formal education, is still going to benefit from a two-parent home, from good nutrition and adequate rest, from good role models, from parental expectation to succeed, from the guidance that hard work = success, from good behavior models. The benefits won't be as high as those enjoyed by children of middle- to upper class professional American families, but it will be miles better than kids from families of generational poverty where no one ever went to college, no expectation of success, no good role models, teen and unwed pregnancy/criminal record abound etc.

Well to be honest it's asian immigrants vs hispanics not really immigrants with ESOL in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who thinks the teacher makes the difference:

Thanks so much for joining the ranks of idiots who feel teachers are responsible and accountable for all of society's ills by being the "better teacher." I rather doubt you are a teacher or that you actually teach in a high poverty school. In fact, I will call you out as a liar.

Behavior issues everywhere? Yes! However it is the difference between silliness, hyperactivity, and gang fights. Maryland, and all counties and Md have revised their discipline policies to such an extent that few kids are ever disciplined and they can really take over a class. Kids from poverty GENERALLY, but certainly NOT ALL, have low engagement because of issues that are comorbid with poverty- abuse, poor nutrition, negligence, health issues, and lack of parent involvement. This is not always because parents do not want to be involved- they can't- they are working, they are embarrassed,they do not speak the language, they have low literacy, they cannot afford technology, they are depressed, they don't have enough food, they don't have a fucking car, they have poor parental models themselves, they were 14 when they had the child and someone is still raising them and all of the other kids they've had since then, they are in and out of the prison system, they are on drugs, they are fired or lose their jobs frequently, they have a cell phone they cannot pay for all the time, they have to keep moving because they are in HUD housing, they need a cigarette and that will ALWAYS trump breakfast in the house, there is a cadre of " uncles" in and out of the house ( and they are not uncles...).

Kids in poverty have been raising themselves since they were able to walk. Life is generally on their terms. Following rules in a school rarely enter their world view- it's all about survival to them..every damn minute of the day. So take your middle class values and find another occupation to trash and blame, but a parent does need to understand that a high poverty school does not always mean that their child will learn to get along with the whole world- the reality is that so many ancillary resources are spent in dealing with emotional and behavioral issues that the curriculum very well takes a back seat. Any teacher in a high FARMS school will tell you this. It is rewarding on many levels, but it is an exhausting and perilous job- and teachers are increasingly held accountable for what they cannot control.

I don’t really care if you believe me or not.
You can google the research - and there is a TON of it out there.
The most significant factor in improving student learning is the teacher.
Here is just one article that outlines some of the research.
http://www.newteacher.com/pdf/NCPrincipalsExecProgram.pdf
And, yes, I have taught in several high “FARMS” schools. (I hate that acronym)
And, I never said that the teacher is responsible for all of society’s ills.

That link is not a link to anything halfway professional or legitimate.

No kidding. Most research supports that the education level of the mother is the bigger indicator and reason for success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Of course, this is true, but these things aren't black/white, they are a continuum. A kid who comes from a home of recent immigrants, possibly with language barriers or lack of formal education, is still going to benefit from a two-parent home, from good nutrition and adequate rest, from good role models, from parental expectation to succeed, from the guidance that hard work = success, from good behavior models. The benefits won't be as high as those enjoyed by children of middle- to upper class professional American families, but it will be miles better than kids from families of generational poverty where no one ever went to college, no expectation of success, no good role models, teen and unwed pregnancy/criminal record abound etc.

Well to be honest it's asian immigrants vs hispanics not really immigrants with ESOL in general.

I don't think it is all hispanics. Central American countries do not have a large educated population in their own country, many are not literate and it is hard for them to understand how much goes into education here. I am hispanic and in conversations with hispanics from Central America they think I am way too uptight for insisting on limited screen time, reading even through the summer, not taking a month off during school to go back home etc etc. It is just not their tradition back home, in Central America, so they bring it here. But then ALL hispanics get painted with that broad brush- even those of us from countries with high literacy rates and that don't have the same level of desperate poverty that those countries experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

I'm talking about the elementary level, not children brought here with little formal education as teenagers. I realize we are talking about a fairly low bar, but being taught to listen, follow rules, basic manners, hygiene... These are absent in some of the school I believe previous posters are discussing. This is not the case in my high farms school and it makes a big difference. Yes, many of the parents are clueless about how a child is supposed to succeed, but at least there is interest.
As far as kids being taken out for esol- I don't see how that would happen as its like 60% esol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alleluia! Parents are the key to success. Many low income kids have parents that DO care. Those kids will be successful. However, many more parents in low income don't care and those kids, sadly, will not succeed. It's parents, not FARMS and not teachers, that determines success.

.... Sure but FARMS percentages is one gauge for telling you what kind of parental situation you are dealing with. Somewhat.
The above previous post is true probably for some areas.
I have to say I live around a very large Ethiopian and el salvadorian immigrant population. Primarily 2 parent homes. The kids are clean and fed ( many using assistance, but I think/hope using it successfully).
Language is a definite barrier. Lack of formal parental education is a barrier. There is a fundamental difference though, when the parents are invested. Which seems to be the case with my neighbors.
It still makes me nervous sending DC to the local school in a couple of years. I wonder if all of the energy on esol will mean my kid isn't getting what they need.

What do you mean by "invested"? The only thing you say about the kids is that they are clean and fed and that there are two parents in the house. I teach ESOL in a high school in FCPS, and I would also say that most of my students are clean and fed and there are two adults in the home (whether they are biological parents of the children is another issue). That said, most of their parents or guardians of low level ESOL students are not involved in school for various reasons - language barriers, work commitments, lack of transportation, etc. They are also not very well educated themselves so while they may say they want their child to succeed in school and do well, they don't really have any idea what that means and how to help get them there. I don't doubt that these parents love their kids, I know they do. But they also don't understand what it means to graduate from a high school in the U.S. and how much work it takes to get there. Just showing up each day won't do it - the student needs to learn to read, go to the library, study after school, bring pencils and paper to school, have a notebook, turn in work instead of losing it, etc, etc. These are things that many of the parents of my students don't understand, and why many of my students struggle when they come here as teenagers.

Of course, this is true, but these things aren't black/white, they are a continuum. A kid who comes from a home of recent immigrants, possibly with language barriers or lack of formal education, is still going to benefit from a two-parent home, from good nutrition and adequate rest, from good role models, from parental expectation to succeed, from the guidance that hard work = success, from good behavior models. The benefits won't be as high as those enjoyed by children of middle- to upper class professional American families, but it will be miles better than kids from families of generational poverty where no one ever went to college, no expectation of success, no good role models, teen and unwed pregnancy/criminal record abound etc.

Well to be honest it's asian immigrants vs hispanics not really immigrants with ESOL in general.

I don't think it is all hispanics. Central American countries do not have a large educated population in their own country, many are not literate and it is hard for them to understand how much goes into education here. I am hispanic and in conversations with hispanics from Central America they think I am way too uptight for insisting on limited screen time, reading even through the summer, not taking a month off during school to go back home etc etc. It is just not their tradition back home, in Central America, so they bring it here. But then ALL hispanics get painted with that broad brush- even those of us from countries with high literacy rates and that don't have the same level of desperate poverty that those countries experience.

Also, I wanted to add that once they are exposed to what is required and expected of them, they generally do their best to make sure the child is meeting those expectations. But it is hard if you are not from here and all of these things are going on that you are unaware of that you are expected to be doing with your child (i..e school readiness). I don't think it is from a lack of love or concern from these parents or even laziness. I think it is just lack of exposure. First generation college students struggle because the parents aren't able to provide simple guidance on how to choose classes, encourgament to visit the office during office hours etc etc. It is the same thing for this population.

[Anonymous]

High FARMS school parent here. I've experienced things like when parents and students are told that soda isn't allowed in school at lunch, they will put soda in plastic water bottles for the kids and send them off to school Positively infuriating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:High FARMS school parent here. I've experienced things like when parents and students are told that soda isn't allowed in school at lunch, they will put soda in plastic water bottles for the kids and send them off to school Positively infuriating.

It is and like I said earlier they don't understand why it is an issue. My parents would force feed my kid candy if I let them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High FARMS school parent here. I've experienced things like when parents and students are told that soda isn't allowed in school at lunch, they will put soda in plastic water bottles for the kids and send them off to school Positively infuriating.

It is and like I said earlier they don't understand why it is an issue. My parents would force feed my kid candy if I let them.

Well, I don't want my child exposed to other children who drink orange soda with their lunch every day. I don't want to SHELTER them from the fact that there are people who think that it is okay for their children to drink soda and juice all the time, either, but I don't want it in their face every day.

It is all of these LITTLE things that go unspoken that add up and make it tough to be a parent of a student at a higher FARMS school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally, I'm always suspicious of people who speak as if their opinion is the absolute truth. It's one thing to have a view and believe that you're right, but once you start stating things like "the reality is" or "every situation results in X," that tells me taht the person lives in their own little bubble and their opinion should be disregarded.

Funny, I usually feel the same way about people who disregard math.

Touche - nice return on serve

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High FARMS school parent here. I've experienced things like when parents and students are told that soda isn't allowed in school at lunch, they will put soda in plastic water bottles for the kids and send them off to school Positively infuriating.

It is and like I said earlier they don't understand why it is an issue. My parents would force feed my kid candy if I let them.

Well, I don't want my child exposed to other children who drink orange soda with their lunch every day. I don't want to SHELTER them from the fact that there are people who think that it is okay for their children to drink soda and juice all the time, either, but I don't want it in their face every day.

It is all of these LITTLE things that go unspoken that add up and make it tough to be a parent of a student at a higher FARMS school.

I agree and I am Hispanic and probably better educated than you. I don't mind that people don't want their kids exposed to bad habits or around kids that are not being raised the same way as their child. I don't want that for my child either. What I do mind is people seeing my child and assuming things about my child because she is of Hispanic descent. I mind that there is a broad brush condemnation of an entire people based on the actions of our poorer brethren without the realization that it is poverty and not race that it the factor causing all
Of these ills. I wouldn't want my child educated in Appalachia, as an example.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My two cents, racist and flameworthy as it will be:

We passed on a house in Hernando because while the specific neighborhood was nice, it was literally surrounded by lower income housing developments.

My point? I just didn't want to spend the next 20 years going to school events and being expected to pick up the slack with and for the families of line cooks, cleaning ladies/janitors and the like.

Hate on me all you want, but it's the reality. We want to live with those in our SES if we're going to (stretch) to buy a quarter of a million dollar home.

You mean a half million, right? My house in a somewhat heavily Hispanic school pyramid was assessed for nearly $600k last year. Not in Herndon.

We were looking at spending north of $1 million to buy into a better school district not in the boonies, but chose not to.

I actually meant three quarters of a mil. Nice catch, low-FARM upbringing I presume?