holding boys back?

[Anonymous]

To the PP, the Type A parents described in an earlier post are not "pushing" their kids, but actually doing quite the opposite by holding them back.

Some people say that you never regret holding a child back, but you might regret not doing so. I'm not sure that is completely true. Perhaps, if your child eventually needs to be held back, it was an obviously wrong decision. But, there are also consequences to holding a child back, or "pushing" a child, that you mentioned which I agree with. Not challenging your child a bit can also be a mistake later on, just not as obvious of one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Children shouldn't have to be "perfect" in order to go kindergarten. "

Apparently in the DC metro area they do

Honestly, I wonder how this generation of kids parented by neurotic Type-A personality helicopter parents will turn out. They can't watch tv. They can't have sugar or sweets. They have to have gift-free birthday parties. They have to take classes and play team sports as toddlers. And apparently the boys have to be 6 years old to start Kindergarten so that they will be taller, stronger, smarter and better behaved than their peers. I think these parents need to take a deep breath and relax a bit. Think about it: most of these parents (if not all) are well-educated and successful people. Did their parents behave the way parents are behaving now? Hardly. My mom thinks I'm crazy when I agonize over these things. She frequently reminds me what bad parents they must have been for letting us watch tv, eat candy, and learn at our own pace. Then she reminds me that I graduated Phi Beta Kappa without being pushed into it by a neurotic parent. I think it's bizarre the way parenting has turned into a competive sport or some sort of science experiment. Did you see the thread on financial aid for $30k/year pre-K tuition? Absurd.

i sign my child up for classes b/c he wants to play with other children and he enjoys the classes. he likes them. it is not for me. it breaks up long days as well with a child that doesn't require a lot of sleep. what's the big deal? he loved his art class and when i could tell he wasn't into a class, i didn't sign up again. i get it though there are parents out there as you describe. i am definitely not a type a parent for sure, but i try to do things to benefit my children. i wish my parents had "pushed" me a little more to be honest. they are the greatest, but i didn't really strive to achieve. mediocrity was accepted and almost celebrated in regards to corporate jobs, etc..

As a Dad, I can understand the classes part, but people around here take it to an extreme sometimes, signing their kids up for multiple classes all day long. Kids need downtime too and time for what we in our 6-minute billing increment lives would consider just doing nothing.

Likewise, one of the posters referenced sports teams -- it's great to introduce kids to sports and get them running around but here, too, people take it to an extreme and think that 3-year olds need to be playing in leagues and "coached."

Long before I became a parent, I would hear about the parent culture of this area from colleagues and tell them, frankly, that I think this area in many ways is a toxic place for raising children. It doesn't stop once they enter school - it just accelerates to more insane heights. I just recently heard from a friend at work about someone she knows who insisted on sending her middle school age son to math camp for the summer so that he could learn even more math than he already successfully learns in his very academically challenging school - really a healthy thing to do, LOL. Instead of letting a kid decompress for the summer and experience the outdoors, he gets to stay inside all day and do math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Children shouldn't have to be "perfect" in order to go kindergarten. "

Apparently in the DC metro area they do

Honestly, I wonder how this generation of kids parented by neurotic Type-A personality helicopter parents will turn out. They can't watch tv. They can't have sugar or sweets. They have to have gift-free birthday parties. They have to take classes and play team sports as toddlers. And apparently the boys have to be 6 years old to start Kindergarten so that they will be taller, stronger, smarter and better behaved than their peers. I think these parents need to take a deep breath and relax a bit. Think about it: most of these parents (if not all) are well-educated and successful people. Did their parents behave the way parents are behaving now? Hardly. My mom thinks I'm crazy when I agonize over these things. She frequently reminds me what bad parents they must have been for letting us watch tv, eat candy, and learn at our own pace. Then she reminds me that I graduated Phi Beta Kappa without being pushed into it by a neurotic parent. I think it's bizarre the way parenting has turned into a competive sport or some sort of science experiment. Did you see the thread on financial aid for $30k/year pre-K tuition? Absurd.

i sign my child up for classes b/c he wants to play with other children and he enjoys the classes. he likes them. it is not for me. it breaks up long days as well with a child that doesn't require a lot of sleep. what's the big deal? he loved his art class and when i could tell he wasn't into a class, i didn't sign up again. i get it though there are parents out there as you describe. i am definitely not a type a parent for sure, but i try to do things to benefit my children. i wish my parents had "pushed" me a little more to be honest. they are the greatest, but i didn't really strive to achieve. mediocrity was accepted and almost celebrated in regards to corporate jobs, etc..

As a Dad, I can understand the classes part, but people around here take it to an extreme sometimes, signing their kids up for multiple classes all day long. Kids need downtime too and time for what we in our 6-minute billing increment lives would consider just doing nothing.

Likewise, one of the posters referenced sports teams -- it's great to introduce kids to sports and get them running around but here, too, people take it to an extreme and think that 3-year olds need to be playing in leagues and "coached."

Long before I became a parent, I would hear about the parent culture of this area from colleagues and tell them, frankly, that I think this area in many ways is a toxic place for raising children. It doesn't stop once they enter school - it just accelerates to more insane heights. I just recently heard from a friend at work about someone she knows who insisted on sending her middle school age son to math camp for the summer so that he could learn even more math than he already successfully learns in his very academically challenging school - really a healthy thing to do, LOL. Instead of letting a kid decompress for the summer and experience the outdoors, he gets to stay inside all day and do math.

i am the op and the other poster you quoted as well and i get what you are saying. it does get out of hand. children do need some down time. i think part of it is being a new parent (at the time anyway) and just not knowing what to do all day to entertain this little child! you do raise some good points though.

[Anonymous]

Let me add a few thoughts:

1) 19 year old seniors in high school are interacting with 14 year old freshmen who have not been "redshirted";

2) teachers will try to encourage learning to the higher end of the class, leaving the "lower end" to require tutors etc., when in fact the afore mentioned "higher end" are simply kids who should have been a grade higher;

3) How this manifests in the 5-9th grades is completely different than how it should be evaluated in K;

4) Anecdotally, I have seen "red-shirted" boys shirk activities with their peers for being "too easy". The same red-shirted boys are also questioned by their peers, "why are you more than ayear older than us?"

5) What happens at one of the more academically rigorous schools if the redshirted kid can't hack it? So they are a year older and cannot comfortably transfer to the same grade at another school. Talk about messing with your kid!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me add a few thoughts:

1) 19 year old seniors in high school are interacting with 14 year old freshmen who have not been "redshirted";

2) teachers will try to encourage learning to the higher end of the class, leaving the "lower end" to require tutors etc., when in fact the afore mentioned "higher end" are simply kids who should have been a grade higher;

3) How this manifests in the 5-9th grades is completely different than how it should be evaluated in K;

4) Anecdotally, I have seen "red-shirted" boys shirk activities with their peers for being "too easy". The same red-shirted boys are also questioned by their peers, "why are you more than ayear older than us?"

5) What happens at one of the more academically rigorous schools if the redshirted kid can't hack it? So they are a year older and cannot comfortably transfer to the same grade at another school. Talk about messing with your kid!

A 19 year old senior would be extremely rare given that most redshirting is done with summer birthdays.

What happens if you've pushed along a chronologically "young" child at one of the more academically rigorous schools, and s/he can't hack it? Talk about messing with your kid! You can't very well hold him/her back at the later grades without avoiding some self-esteem issues.

[Anonymous]

For the private schools, the cut off is more like early summer, not September, thus the redshirting is Spring birthdays. Hence, 19 year old seniors.

Your second point is valid, but at least there are options with a younger child...repeat a grade at the same school, transfer or transfer and repeat. With a redshirted child, what are you going to do with a 15 year old who has just completed 8th grade who is told by the school that they will not be a successful high school student in their academic environment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, one-third of these boys are "socially immature"? What on earth does that mean? In our daughter's preschool class of 20, there are one or two boys who have more trouble fitting in than the others, but I certainly wouldn't say they are so far from the mean that they should be kept back. Kids are kids, and teachers are used to dealing with a wide variety of personalities and behaviors. Children shouldn't have to be "perfect" in order to go kindergarten.

My DS could be one of the two boys you reference in your DD's class. He was rejected by all schools we applied to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, one-third of these boys are "socially immature"? What on earth does that mean? In our daughter's preschool class of 20, there are one or two boys who have more trouble fitting in than the others, but I certainly wouldn't say they are so far from the mean that they should be kept back. Kids are kids, and teachers are used to dealing with a wide variety of personalities and behaviors. Children shouldn't have to be "perfect" in order to go kindergarten.

My DS could be one of the two boys you reference in your DD's class. He was rejected by all schools we applied to.

First, sorry that your DS was rejected and I hope you can find a good place for him. I'm the mom of a little boy who just turned three. Do you mind sharing what type of behavior you're talking about here? I ask because I notice that the little girls I know are way more predictable and quieter and follow directions better than the boys their same age. The boys seem to have two extremes: sort of loud and wild but not very verbal - and very quiet and introverted.

I've started wondering why - and how it will affect them in the future. Thanks - and good luck to you. I know you'll find a good place for your son!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, one-third of these boys are "socially immature"? What on earth does that mean? In our daughter's preschool class of 20, there are one or two boys who have more trouble fitting in than the others, but I certainly wouldn't say they are so far from the mean that they should be kept back. Kids are kids, and teachers are used to dealing with a wide variety of personalities and behaviors. Children shouldn't have to be "perfect" in order to go kindergarten.

My DS could be one of the two boys you reference in your DD's class. He was rejected by all schools we applied to.

First, sorry that your DS was rejected and I hope you can find a good place for him. I'm the mom of a little boy who just turned three. Do you mind sharing what type of behavior you're talking about here? I ask because I notice that the little girls I know are way more predictable and quieter and follow directions better than the boys their same age. The boys seem to have two extremes: sort of loud and wild but not very verbal - and very quiet and introverted.

I've started wondering why - and how it will affect them in the future. Thanks - and good luck to you. I know you'll find a good place for your son!

Thank you for your kind words. As of now, we are only looking at the public K next year.
While I would not say that DS is wild, he could definitely be characterized as high energy -- very verbal, outgoing, big personality, etc. His peers like him, perhaps because he sometimes does things that make them laugh, which they would dare not do (yes, class clown does come to mind). While his official testing was fine along with his playdate visits, he would likely not "score" well some of the classroom preferred behaviors-- following directions the first (or second) time around, sitting quietly at project time (he tends to finish projects earlier and wants to get up and move on to something else), patiently raising hand at circle time and waiting to be called upon instead of excitedly blurting out the answers...the list could go on. I would add that he likely received a less than stellar teacher recommendation as a result. I know of one quiet/introverted male friend of ds from school who applied to a K program or two that we did, but do not yet know of his success or not. While I believe that ds certainly would "add" to the classroom experience and make it interesting, I have to guess that the schools did not feel the same (fwiw, we did not apply to any of the "elite" usual suspects routinely discussed on this board, but rather some good schools where we honestly thought ds had a chance of being a successful applicant).

[Anonymous]

op here...question only for those who have held their kids back....looking for a gut answer here not an answer to justify holding him back. anonymously, if you held your son back now do you think it was a wise decision and would you do it again? my child is a summer b-day and this seems to becoming an issue and conversation. i am very torn on what to do here and it kind of determines where i will send him to school next year so unfortunately it isn't something i can just wait and see what happens. looking for real experience here. for those of you who hate the concept, i get it and understand your situation and feelings as well, as i was right there with you, but now that we are going to be in schools where many prek boys are entering the year at 5, i have to look out for my son's needs first and he gets shy sometimes around older kids. thanks in advance for any input. pros and/or cons appreciated.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for your kind words. As of now, we are only looking at the public K next year.
While I would not say that DS is wild, he could definitely be characterized as high energy -- very verbal, outgoing, big personality, etc. His peers like him, perhaps because he sometimes does things that make them laugh, which they would dare not do (yes, class clown does come to mind). While his official testing was fine along with his playdate visits, he would likely not "score" well some of the classroom preferred behaviors-- following directions the first (or second) time around, sitting quietly at project time (he tends to finish projects earlier and wants to get up and move on to something else), patiently raising hand at circle time and waiting to be called upon instead of excitedly blurting out the answers...the list could go on. I would add that he likely received a less than stellar teacher recommendation as a result. I know of one quiet/introverted male friend of ds from school who applied to a K program or two that we did, but do not yet know of his success or not. While I believe that ds certainly would "add" to the classroom experience and make it interesting, I have to guess that the schools did not feel the same (fwiw, we did not apply to any of the "elite" usual suspects routinely discussed on this board, but rather some good schools where we honestly thought ds had a chance of being a successful applicant).



I think that this is really common from my observations at our Play Group. Again, I'm sorry it's limiting your school choices. If it makes you feel better, I think that your son and his peers are the ones who are going to be running the world one day. As he gets older and a little more mature, these are all good traits.

Best of luck to him.

[Anonymous]

[quote=



Thank you for your kind words. As of now, we are only looking at the public K next year.
While I would not say that DS is wild, he could definitely be characterized as high energy -- very verbal, outgoing, big personality, etc. His peers like him, perhaps because he sometimes does things that make them laugh, which they would dare not do (yes, class clown does come to mind). While his official testing was fine along with his playdate visits, he would likely not "score" well some of the classroom preferred behaviors-- following directions the first (or second) time around, sitting quietly at project time (he tends to finish projects earlier and wants to get up and move on to something else), patiently raising hand at circle time and waiting to be called upon instead of excitedly blurting out the answers...the list could go on. I would add that he likely received a less than stellar teacher recommendation as a result. I know of one quiet/introverted male friend of ds from school who applied to a K program or two that we did, but do not yet know of his success or not. While I believe that ds certainly would "add" to the classroom experience and make it interesting, I have to guess that the schools did not feel the same (fwiw, we did not apply to any of the "elite" usual suspects routinely discussed on this board, but rather some good schools where we honestly thought ds had a chance of being a successful applicant).




Would you mind sharing which schools you applied to? My DC sounds very similar and it would be great to get a sense of what schools might not find a child like him a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[quote=

Would you mind sharing which schools you applied to? My DC sounds very similar and it would be great to get a sense of what schools might not find a child like him a good fit.

We applied for K to schools that were considered "traditional" as we were seeking structure for his day. I would add that we did not apply to any of the big 3/4 grouping. Looking back over the process, while neither my dh or myself had been exposed to a progressive education, it may be that perhaps as far as "fit" goes for ds, that may have been what we needed to explore for him. I wish we would have.

[Anonymous]

When our son was in third grade, there were other boys in that class who were ten. Several of them were already interested in girls. THey made SURE to tell everyone else in the class that there was no Santa Clause and that only babies believed in Santa. Having older children in class with young ones can negatively impact a whole class socially, even if it helps academically.
Currently, we're contending with a situation where our 14 year old freshman has a freshman friend with a DRIVER's LICENSE (he's sixteen). I didn't expect to be policing this issue for a few more years.

[Anonymous]

I have a boy who will be 4 in June and will be starting pre-k at a private school this fall. I know for a fact that a lot of the boys will be at least a year older than he is. But I'm confident in my son and frankly would hate the idea of holding him back. I LIKE the idea that he will be pushed a bit, physically and mentally. I, and the school administrators, are sure that he's up to it. It's actually the older kids that I feel a bit sorry for; the ones I've met seem to be ready for a bit more. I'm sorry; I just think it's silly to have 4 year olds still in nursery school.