Fairfax County: McLean Citizens Association demands smaller class sizes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In some schools there are empty classrooms that are used as auxiliary rooms or storage in McLean, Vienna, and Great Falls.

Not at Colvin Run in Vienna... which schools are you referring to?

Nor Chesterbrook or Haycock.

Methinks the OP simply wants to give everyone the impression that McLean, Vienna, and Great Falls schools are sitting pretty and in no need of smaller classrooms. Wrong.

[Anonymous]

They should open up an other elementary school in the McLean area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really? Because my son's first grade class has amost 30 students and I haven't seen an empty classroom. The classes need to be smaller and I would happily pay higher taxes if they went directly to reducing class size at our school. Having an active PTA means everyone is involved. There are lots of fundraisers and events, which means you spend lots of money all year. Yes, the school benefits from the PTA. It's one of the reasons we moved here. I'm not sure if the PTA purchased our climbing wall but if they did, it's small. Why not if they can afford it.

Doubtful that the PTA was involved in the climbing wall installation. If it was, it is now singing a different tune because from what I've read, PTAs discourage their chapters from spending $ on playgrounds due to the liability.

There is no liability for the PTA to give money to FCPS schools for playground equipment. FCPS does all the work. The PTA just gives them the money.

[Anonymous]

My children go to a school in the middle of county in every sense - location, SES, etc. We have overcrowded classrooms, lots of ESOL and FARMS students but not enough to be Title I, absolutely no space, renovations desperately needed, low budget PTA, etc. And you know what, the test scores are still great, the staff is amazing and continue to do more with less and it is a great school. It's frustrating to hear the Title I schools get so many more resources and smaller class sizes, and it's frustrating to hear the McLean schools complain when they don't have the same ESOL/FARMS challenges that we do. FCPS tends to ignore the middle, and I would like to see changes made to acknowledge not just the neediest and squeaky wheels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The random and huge disparities in all aspects are what's maddening about FCPS schools. One elementary school has an expansive property, three playgrounds and a climbing wall. Another has 18 students per class. Another has 36 students per class. Some kids get PE three times a week. Some have to eat lunch at 10 am. And on and on. I think it breeds resentment.

Who has a climbing wall!? (starts to feel resentful...)

All the schools I've been to have them. It's not that big a deal actually. Probably was an in vogue thing for the PTA to raise money for several years back. It runs along one of the short sides of the gym and has mats covering it. It's probably about 6' tall. The kids can climb from one side of the gym to the other on it.

None in my area have this. I can't even conceive of our PTA having the money for it. How much would that cost?

I googled but couldn't find a cost. FCPS facilities would know this and you could talk to your principal about it. I see Franconia Elementary installed one in 2012. They appear to be between $2000-$5000. This website has a grant program, so there may be grants out there too.
http://everlastclimbing.com/grant-program/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My children go to a school in the middle of county in every sense - location, SES, etc. We have overcrowded classrooms, lots of ESOL and FARMS students but not enough to be Title I, absolutely no space, renovations desperately needed, low budget PTA, etc. And you know what, the test scores are still great, the staff is amazing and continue to do more with less and it is a great school. It's frustrating to hear the Title I schools get so many more resources and smaller class sizes, and it's frustrating to hear the McLean schools complain when they don't have the same ESOL/FARMS challenges that we do. FCPS tends to ignore the middle, and I would like to see changes made to acknowledge not just the neediest and squeaky wheels.

The MCA resolution urges FCPS to adopt county-wide changes that would benefit schools with classrooms in the high 20s and 30s, whereever located.

They are asking for classes to be no smaller than 21 students and no larger than 25 students, and assuming that the Title I classes would still be smaller. Realistically, that probably won't happen, but maybe it could be classes no smaller than 19 students and no larger than 27 students, with a target in between for schools "in the middle." They are pointing out that having classes of 15 kids in some areas and 34 kids in others is ridiculous, whether the latter is in McLean, Fairfax or Centreville. If the MCA was the squeaky wheel that had been getting all the grease, McLean wouldn't have some of the largest class sizes in the county now.

I don't know about you, but I'm glad the MCA and other groups are trying to promote a debate on this topic before the next round of School Board elections this fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They should open up an other elementary school in the McLean area.

We should call it Lewinsville and build it on Great Falls between Magarity and Old Chain Bridge Road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 1st-3rd grade classes with 10 students in them and others with over 30. It's gotten completely out of whack and I don't blame parents for being upset. There should not be that much discrepancy. I haven't read the demand, but most parents just think things need to be shifted a bit so that all class sizes are a bit more manageable and the difference between the largest and smallest class size in FCPS for the same grade is a little smaller than 20 plus students.

Where are there 1st - 3rd grade classes with 10 students in them? That's BS unless you are talking about classes of students with significant disabilities.

Not the PP, and I don't recall seeing information about classes with 10 kids. There are classes in some parts of the county with fewer than 15 kids and less than 1/2 the number of students that are in classes elsewhere in the county.

http://classsizecounts.com/?page_id=7

Some examples from that report. Bucknell has numerous classes around 12 students including a 6th grade class. Fort Hunt has 12 kids in one class. Herndon has a 2nd grade class of 10. Weyanoke has a 5th grade class of 14. These include any level 2 students. They may have changed during the year, but at this snapshot, these were the numbers while other classes in the county at that same time were at 30-37 children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 1st-3rd grade classes with 10 students in them and others with over 30. It's gotten completely out of whack and I don't blame parents for being upset. There should not be that much discrepancy. I haven't read the demand, but most parents just think things need to be shifted a bit so that all class sizes are a bit more manageable and the difference between the largest and smallest class size in FCPS for the same grade is a little smaller than 20 plus students.

Where are there 1st - 3rd grade classes with 10 students in them? That's BS unless you are talking about classes of students with significant disabilities.

Not the PP, and I don't recall seeing information about classes with 10 kids. There are classes in some parts of the county with fewer than 15 kids and less than 1/2 the number of students that are in classes elsewhere in the county.

http://classsizecounts.com/?page_id=7

Some examples from that report. Bucknell has numerous classes around 12 students including a 6th grade class. Fort Hunt has 12 kids in one class. Herndon has a 2nd grade class of 10. Weyanoke has a 5th grade class of 14. These include any level 2 students. They may have changed during the year, but at this snapshot, these were the numbers while other classes in the county at that same time were at 30-37 children.

And yet, no one from McLean would deign to send their children to Weyanoke, Herndon, or Bucknell. They need to leave Title 1 schools out of this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 1st-3rd grade classes with 10 students in them and others with over 30. It's gotten completely out of whack and I don't blame parents for being upset. There should not be that much discrepancy. I haven't read the demand, but most parents just think things need to be shifted a bit so that all class sizes are a bit more manageable and the difference between the largest and smallest class size in FCPS for the same grade is a little smaller than 20 plus students.

Where are there 1st - 3rd grade classes with 10 students in them? That's BS unless you are talking about classes of students with significant disabilities.

Not the PP, and I don't recall seeing information about classes with 10 kids. There are classes in some parts of the county with fewer than 15 kids and less than 1/2 the number of students that are in classes elsewhere in the county.

http://classsizecounts.com/?page_id=7

Some examples from that report. Bucknell has numerous classes around 12 students including a 6th grade class. Fort Hunt has 12 kids in one class. Herndon has a 2nd grade class of 10. Weyanoke has a 5th grade class of 14. These include any level 2 students. They may have changed during the year, but at this snapshot, these were the numbers while other classes in the county at that same time were at 30-37 children.

And yet, no one from McLean would deign to send their children to Weyanoke, Herndon, or Bucknell. They need to leave Title 1 schools out of this discussion.

There is a Title I school that matriculates to McLean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/cip/cipbookfy2016-20.pdf

there are definitely going to have to be redistricts and new schools to relieve some of the pressure.

Coates and McNair are expected to approach 170% capacity.

Is there some reason those two schools are so crowded? Was there a building boom in that area after the schools were built or something?

Coates does not have a single family-home in it's boundary. It includes a very limited number of townhouses, and a ton of apartments and condos. McNair has some single family homes, but also a ton of townhouses, condos and apartments. In many cases, there are multiple family groups in these residences, further increasing the numbers. Just down the street, Floris is under capacity, with nary an apartment in it's boundary. Hmmm......

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 1st-3rd grade classes with 10 students in them and others with over 30. It's gotten completely out of whack and I don't blame parents for being upset. There should not be that much discrepancy. I haven't read the demand, but most parents just think things need to be shifted a bit so that all class sizes are a bit more manageable and the difference between the largest and smallest class size in FCPS for the same grade is a little smaller than 20 plus students.

Where are there 1st - 3rd grade classes with 10 students in them? That's BS unless you are talking about classes of students with significant disabilities.

Not the PP, and I don't recall seeing information about classes with 10 kids. There are classes in some parts of the county with fewer than 15 kids and less than 1/2 the number of students that are in classes elsewhere in the county.

http://classsizecounts.com/?page_id=7

Some examples from that report. Bucknell has numerous classes around 12 students including a 6th grade class. Fort Hunt has 12 kids in one class. Herndon has a 2nd grade class of 10. Weyanoke has a 5th grade class of 14. These include any level 2 students. They may have changed during the year, but at this snapshot, these were the numbers while other classes in the county at that same time were at 30-37 children.

And yet, no one from McLean would deign to send their children to Weyanoke, Herndon, or Bucknell. They need to leave Title 1 schools out of this discussion.

There's nothing in Title I that requires class sizes that small, and it's the county's decision to assign so many teachers to Title I schools and so few to schools elsewhere in the county.

It's past-time to put this all on the table. School Board members who don't acknowledge things are seriously out of whack should turn in their resignations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 1st-3rd grade classes with 10 students in them and others with over 30. It's gotten completely out of whack and I don't blame parents for being upset. There should not be that much discrepancy. I haven't read the demand, but most parents just think things need to be shifted a bit so that all class sizes are a bit more manageable and the difference between the largest and smallest class size in FCPS for the same grade is a little smaller than 20 plus students.

Where are there 1st - 3rd grade classes with 10 students in them? That's BS unless you are talking about classes of students with significant disabilities.

Not the PP, and I don't recall seeing information about classes with 10 kids. There are classes in some parts of the county with fewer than 15 kids and less than 1/2 the number of students that are in classes elsewhere in the county.

http://classsizecounts.com/?page_id=7

Some examples from that report. Bucknell has numerous classes around 12 students including a 6th grade class. Fort Hunt has 12 kids in one class. Herndon has a 2nd grade class of 10. Weyanoke has a 5th grade class of 14. These include any level 2 students. They may have changed during the year, but at this snapshot, these were the numbers while other classes in the county at that same time were at 30-37 children.

And yet, no one from McLean would deign to send their children to Weyanoke, Herndon, or Bucknell. They need to leave Title 1 schools out of this discussion.

No one is saying those schools shouldn't have small class sizes, but do you think other schools in the County including ones not in Mclean should have 20-25 children more than these schools in each class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The title of your thread is kind of misleading. The MCA didn't "demand" smaller class sizes. It adopted a resolution urging FCPS to narrow - but not eliminate - the current differences in class sizes.

The issue has been percolating for years, but the School Board has continued to let classes in McLean, Vienna and Great Falls get larger. Test scores remain very high, of course, but the parents see how much smaller the classes are elsewhere in FCPS, as well as in APS and FCCPS, and they feel short-changed and taken for granted.

I would love to know what the average McLean household pays in property taxes - I bet it isn't much more than my husband and I pay, and we are zoned for a title 1 school. Believe it or not, there are pockets of nice properties in other parts of the of the county.

What is your point? Your children do not have the larger class sizes and benefit from the additional resources from the county and elsewhere.

My daughter is not school age yet, but we certainly did not move here for the small class sizes in the local elementary school. That notion is absolutely laughable.

And I see the additional resources that go to Title 1 schools as an equalizer to keep them from being completely in the toilet. I'd rather see slightly larger class sizes, and to also see more incentives to teach at Title 1 schools.

[Anonymous]

At least some of the underlying data does not take into account aggregation over a grade.

For example, look at Annandale Terrace and the five classes of 1st grade students. The General Ed counts are 20, 15, 17, 19 and 19. When you add that up it totals to 90 kids. So if you divide that by the K-3 state limit of 22, that results in 4.09 classes. So it still results in five classes of 1st grade students. Wouldn't it make sense to try to spread the children out across five classes instead of create four classes of 22 students each and one class with 2 students?