Fairfax County: McLean Citizens Association demands smaller class sizes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do the poor people in McLean live?

Those are the kids from Timber Lane that the McLean folks want so desperately to get rid of.

Not really, the students at Timber Lane that make it a Title I school do not generally go to Longfellow/McLean. They are zoned for Falls Church. Some of the McLean students line in apartments near the Safeway on Anderson Road. Some live in the Rotunda. Some are scattered in the district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do the poor people in McLean live?

Those are the kids from Timber Lane that the McLean folks want so desperately to get rid of.

Sorry, but that area has been at McLean HS for over 30 years and is not going away.

If people in McLean wanted the area moved out of the school, do you really think they could not have convinced Janie Strauss, who lives in the McLean HS district, to make it happen at some point over the gazillion years Janie has been on the School Board? The part of Timber Lane that feeds into McLean is closer to both Marshall HS and Falls Church HS, two schools that at various times have had the lowest enrollments in the county, than it is to McLean. It would have been easy to justify moving the area to either school to shore up its enrollment. That never happened because there was never any concerted effort by "McLean folks" or anyone else to make it happen.

It's part of the school community, and kids at Longfellow and McLean spend more time volunteering at Timber Lane every year than at any other school in the pyramid. Without Timber Lane, McLean just becomes Langley Lite. With it, it has its own identity that most people there really like.

It doesn't matter how long neighborhoods have been zoned for a particular HS. It looks like they are planning to move McLean neighborhoods that have gone to McLean for 50+ years to other HS. Your logic is flawed. Tyson's growth will change everything. It is a potential disrupter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do the poor people in McLean live?

Those are the kids from Timber Lane that the McLean folks want so desperately to get rid of.

Sorry, but that area has been at McLean HS for over 30 years and is not going away.

If people in McLean wanted the area moved out of the school, do you really think they could not have convinced Janie Strauss, who lives in the McLean HS district, to make it happen at some point over the gazillion years Janie has been on the School Board? The part of Timber Lane that feeds into McLean is closer to both Marshall HS and Falls Church HS, two schools that at various times have had the lowest enrollments in the county, than it is to McLean. It would have been easy to justify moving the area to either school to shore up its enrollment. That never happened because there was never any concerted effort by "McLean folks" or anyone else to make it happen.

It's part of the school community, and kids at Longfellow and McLean spend more time volunteering at Timber Lane every year than at any other school in the pyramid. Without Timber Lane, McLean just becomes Langley Lite. With it, it has its own identity that most people there really like.

It doesn't matter how long neighborhoods have been zoned for a particular HS. It looks like they are planning to move McLean neighborhoods that have gone to McLean for 50+ years to other HS. Your logic is flawed. Tyson's growth will change everything. It is a potential disrupter.

To be clear, FCPS has only suggested to date they might move some neighborhoods that have been at McLean since the mid-80s (not 50+ plus years) to Langley, and the Timber Lane area isn't one of them. If future growth in Tysons leads FCPS to move Timber Lane to another school (and it would most likely be Falls Church), it won't be because McLean folks want to get rid of people in multi-family units, but because there are even more students living in multi-family units closer to the school. The suggestion that McLean residents want to "get rid" of the Timber Lane students remains ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where do the poor people in McLean live?

Those are the kids from Timber Lane that the McLean folks want so desperately to get rid of.

Not really, the students at Timber Lane that make it a Title I school do not generally go to Longfellow/McLean. They are zoned for Falls Church. Some of the McLean students line in apartments near the Safeway on Anderson Road. Some live in the Rotunda. Some are scattered in the district.

65% of Timber Lane goes to McLean, and 35% goes to Falls Church. The portion zoned for McLean includes lower-income garden apartments north of Lee Highway and west of Falls Church City. The portion zoned for Falls Church includes lower-income garden apartments south of Lee Highway off Annandale Road. There are also more expensive neighborhoods of older single-family homes assigned to both school districts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:yeah, good luck. Their line is that class size has no effect on student achievement. There are studies that say this.

However, I think that using those studies is a huge cop out so they don't have to make the hard choices and can continue to shove our kids into classrooms like sardines in perpetuity.

And when they "fix" our ridiculously overcrowded school, they are leaving us over capacity by ~150 with the current amendment.[/quote
That is hysterical, there are studies that show class size matters. This is a main reason people go private. Will be watching this with interest, would love to see same in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

yeah, good luck. Their line is that class size has no effect on student achievement. There are studies that say this.

Yes. My principal told me this as he gave me my 35th first grader. Not in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

yeah, good luck. Their line is that class size has no effect on student achievement. There are studies that say this.

Yes. My principal told me this as he gave me my 35th first grader. Not in FCPS.

Next time, tell your Principal that those studies define "large" as 25-27 students. As far as I know, there has not been a study for classrooms of over 30 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

yeah, good luck. Their line is that class size has no effect on student achievement. There are studies that say this.

Yes. My principal told me this as he gave me my 35th first grader. Not in FCPS.

Next time, tell your Principal that those studies define "large" as 25-27 students. As far as I know, there has not been a study for classrooms of over 30 students.

Do studies need to be done? Are these schools that have large classes NOT getting high test scores across the board? Because last I checked, they are doing great in that arena.

Is GreatSchools.org or whatever other nonsense site suddenly giving them ratings below a 9 or 10? No.

Not that I think that this makes having sardine-packed classes the best thing for the kids, but the proof is in the pudding that large class sizes do not affect student achievement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

yeah, good luck. Their line is that class size has no effect on student achievement. There are studies that say this.

Yes. My principal told me this as he gave me my 35th first grader. Not in FCPS.

Next time, tell your Principal that those studies define "large" as 25-27 students. As far as I know, there has not been a study for classrooms of over 30 students.

Do studies need to be done? Are these schools that have large classes NOT getting high test scores across the board? Because last I checked, they are doing great in that arena.

Is GreatSchools.org or whatever other nonsense site suddenly giving them ratings below a 9 or 10? No.

Not that I think that this makes having sardine-packed classes the best thing for the kids, but the proof is in the pudding that large class sizes do not affect student achievement.

Correlation does not equal causation. There are other factors that affect student achievement in those schools. High SES. High levels of mother education. Active parents who will pick up any slack from the school. Wealthy parents who will pull their children from public if they are not doing well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ok, but to get class sizes down, we need more teachers, which means more money.

Do you have a money tree somewhere?

We need more revenue streams.

Recently, a School Board member asked how much would it cost to lower the average FCPS class size by .5 students (don't even get me started on that) - FCPS came back w/ $7M estimate. I am an advocate funding ESOL, FARMS and special needs students who desperately need resources - let's not steal from Peter to pay Paul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ok, but to get class sizes down, we need more teachers, which means more money.

Do you have a money tree somewhere?

We need more revenue streams.

Recently, a School Board member asked how much would it cost to lower the average FCPS class size by .5 students (don't even get me started on that) - FCPS came back w/ $7M estimate. I am an advocate funding ESOL, FARMS and special needs students who desperately need resources - let's not steal from Peter to pay Paul.

It's interesting how regular, English-speaking families get treated like a fringe special-interest group when they ask for class sizes below 30 students for their kids, but the ESOL/FARMS/special-needs kids get much smaller classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ok, but to get class sizes down, we need more teachers, which means more money.

Do you have a money tree somewhere?

We need more revenue streams.

Recently, a School Board member asked how much would it cost to lower the average FCPS class size by .5 students (don't even get me started on that) - FCPS came back w/ $7M estimate. I am an advocate funding ESOL, FARMS and special needs students who desperately need resources - let's not steal from Peter to pay Paul.

It's interesting how regular, English-speaking families get treated like a fringe special-interest group when they ask for class sizes below 30 students for their kids, but the ESOL/FARMS/special-needs kids get much smaller classes.

That wasn't my point - I was adding some facts to the discussion. Let's call it $70M annually to reduce each class size by 5 students.

[Anonymous]

Do studies need to be done? Are these schools that have large classes NOT getting high test scores across the board? Because last I checked, they are doing great in that arena.

Is GreatSchools.org or whatever other nonsense site suddenly giving them ratings below a 9 or 10? No.

Not that I think that this makes having sardine-packed classes the best thing for the kids, but the proof is in the pudding that large class sizes do not affect student achievement.

If you put 5 more kids in a class, that equals 25 more kids that a teacher has over the course of a high school schedule. That means 25 more papers, tests, forms, recommendations, possible IEP forms, etc., etc. For the same salary.

If you don't think that might lead to faster burnout or departure, think again. Could you have your workload increased by 20% without a pay increase and say, "Oh, yeah, this is great." This is not sustainable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ok, but to get class sizes down, we need more teachers, which means more money.

Do you have a money tree somewhere?

We need more revenue streams.

Recently, a School Board member asked how much would it cost to lower the average FCPS class size by .5 students (don't even get me started on that) - FCPS came back w/ $7M estimate. I am an advocate funding ESOL, FARMS and special needs students who desperately need resources - let's not steal from Peter to pay Paul.

It's interesting how regular, English-speaking families get treated like a fringe special-interest group when they ask for class sizes below 30 students for their kids, but the ESOL/FARMS/special-needs kids get much smaller classes.

That wasn't my point - I was adding some facts to the discussion. Let's call it $70M annually to reduce each class size by 5 students.

That is a huge increase. We need more revenue streams to cover that.

Just about every other area of the county budget is slated to be slashed. As a parent, I not only want good schools, but I want nice parks, police and other law enforcement, and roads.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dmb/fy2016/advertised/overview/07_executive_summary.pdf

[Anonymous]

Do studies need to be done? Are these schools that have large classes NOT getting high test scores across the board? Because last I checked, they are doing great in that arena.

Is GreatSchools.org or whatever other nonsense site suddenly giving them ratings below a 9 or 10? No.

Not that I think that this makes having sardine-packed classes the best thing for the kids, but the proof is in the pudding that large class sizes do not affect student achievement.

The tests don't come close to measuring what goes on in a classroom. And you know it.