ACPS and TJ

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought long before making this post yet I feel this video is very relevant to discussion of the OP's original question.

As an ACPS parent, I watched the 12/18/14 Alexandria City School Board meeting, where board member Kelly Booz introduced an amendment to add a single Honors Class by fall of 2015 during Agenda #9 discussion of "2015-2016 Program of Studies". It turns out a good number of ACPS students themselves are asking the school board for more choice between academic "standard classes" and "AP classes".

An hour of board discussion ensued. Repetitive back and forth between the Superintendent and amongst Board Members on if enough time exists between now, mid December 2014, and September 2015 to allow even a single Honors class be added to at least address student's request for a more rigorous class than standard. The Superintendent said it was possible, but also thought more lead time was preferable, to this viewer urging the following academic year 2016-2017.

I didn't believe some who wrote on this thread that ACPS shorts the above average students and gifted students. I just thought that ethically impossible. Watch the video discussion starting at 1:22 and make your own judgement.

Listen where a Board member addresses the request: "it's a matter of priorities". Multiple times the word "priorities" is said, code, one might deduce, for not on the agenda for the great majority of students. I almost had to turn the ACPS Board meeting off, it broke my heart how some students are higher "priorities" in ACPS.

Ms. Booz earnest amendment for a single new Honor's class in 2015-2016 was vetoed 5to 4.

If a single new ACPS Honors class for 2015-2016, urged by Alexandria students themselves for more rigor can't get passed and completed over 9 months, then there is a big problem in ACPS.

If ACPS Board refers to the majority of students as "priorities" and these exclude honors and gifted students, then it appears the Alexandria City Public Schools may indeed be lopsided. Strong words, yes? Remember, I didn't believe you initially. It is now less hard for me at least to believe, after watching and listening to this sad, prolonged, beat-around-the-priority-bush hour of the ACPS Board Meeting this week.

I post this not to rankle ACPS School Board members, but to facilitate further discussion amongst Alexandrian's and as commentary to the OP's original question.

http://acpsk12va.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2
(1:22 for board discussion, preceded by staff presentation)

Thanks. I didn't listen to the video, but I'd bet there was also concern that offering an Honors class might lead some kids not to take the AP class - which might be bad for TC's "Challenge Index" rating.

But, just to be clear, I think that's BS and that letting kids take Honors classes builds up their confidence to take more challenging classes, particularly as juniors and seniors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can't compare the spending per student for ACPS vs FCPS without comparing the number of students in each school system. Fairfax County is the largest school system in the state of VA with over 186,000 students. There is a significant economy of scale that comes with being such a large school system. Alexandria has just over 14,000 students. Fairfax has a budget of over $2.5 billion, versus ACPS's $250 million.

Oh, please. Have you seen the TC Williams building? At $98 million, one of the most expensive public school buildings in the US. I went to an excellent public school that did not happen to have a planetarium and did just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't compare the spending per student for ACPS vs FCPS without comparing the number of students in each school system. Fairfax County is the largest school system in the state of VA with over 186,000 students. There is a significant economy of scale that comes with being such a large school system. Alexandria has just over 14,000 students. Fairfax has a budget of over $2.5 billion, versus ACPS's $250 million.

Oh, please. Have you seen the TC Williams building? At $98 million, one of the most expensive public school buildings in the US. I went to an excellent public school that did not happen to have a planetarium and did just fine.

This is from a 2007 Forbes article, but I bet it still holds (Alexandria was the worst school in the country on a scale that compared adjusted cost per student with results):

Marin County, Calif., provides the best bang for the buck. In 2004 Marin spent an average of $9,356 ($6,579 adjusted for the cost of living relative to other metro areas in the U.S.) per pupil, among the lowest education expenditures in the country. But in return Marin delivered results above the national average: 96.8% of its seniors graduated, and 60.4% of them took the SAT college entrance exam and scored a mean 1133 (out of 1600). The others in the top five are Collin, Texas; Hamilton, Ind.; Norfolk, Mass.; and Montgomery, Md.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, Alexandria City, Va., which sits just six miles outside of our nation?s capital, spent $13,730 ($11,404 adjusted) per pupil, but its high schools registered only a 73% graduation rate, with 65.0% of the seniors participating in the SAT for a mean score of 963. According to John Porter, assistant superintendent, Administrative Services and Public Relations for the Alexandria City Public Schools, their graduation rate is reflective of a large number of foreign-born students who may take longer than the traditional four years to graduate. He also noted that their performance measures are rising, along with their expenditures. Per-pupil spending in Alexandria City is now over $18,000. Others on the bottom of the list include Glynn, Ga.; Washington, D.C.; Ulster, N.Y.; and Beaufort, S.C.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Alexandria schools will improve over the next decade(s) but that will be a result of the less affluent being forced to move. The Beauregard plan will displace many of the families of at risk kids. If the city ever cracked down on multiple families living in the apartments in the West End, that would have an impact too. Of course the affordable housing advocates will rage against the inevitable, but the poorer parts of Alexandria will naturally gentrify over time. There will be fewer famiies with school age kids as well. Alexandria is becoming a city of younger childless couple and the number of kids in the older, established single family home neighborhoods is dwindling. Some of the older low rise buildings will be replaced - the land is just too valuable. After Beauregad, I think we'll see big changes coming to Arlandria (it's already happening - just drive down Mt. Vernon Avenue in that area.) Last, a lot of people worked very hard to get rid of former Superintendant Mort Sherman and elect a new school board. The new superintendent is a vast improvement. If I had school aged children in Alexandria now, I'd gladly send them to George Mason or MacArthur Elementary, maybe Maury, then private school for middle school (no way in hell should any parent send their kids to GW or Hammond or Minnie Howard) then I might give TC Williams a try, and if the first year didn't go well, send my kid to private school, or just stay with private schools. TCW can be good for a small subset.

Arlandria was supposed to be "gentrified" by now.

In 2010, a developer submitted plans for redevelopment which the City accepted. The developer took no action. Just last year, they amended the plans and they are seriously scaled back. If a developer isn't going to make any changes, then no the area won't change. And you have to wonder after 4 years even the developer thinks it's a poor investment.


The problem with the current development landscape is they are focusing far too much on slapping up apartments but the market demand is going to be for homes - townhomes and single family. A great area to do that would be in Arlandria if a developer would come in and knock down the Rat hole Presendential Greens apartments.

[Anonymous]

^^ PP, why do you think the market demand is going to be for homes-townhomes and single family?

Just curious. It's hard for me to foresee the real estate demand in Alexandria City. IDK what it will be given places like the jammed Route 1 Corridor. What if that becomes not what CC expected?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought long before making this post yet I feel this video is very relevant to discussion of the OP's original question.

As an ACPS parent, I watched the 12/18/14 Alexandria City School Board meeting, where board member Kelly Booz introduced an amendment to add a single Honors Class by fall of 2015 during Agenda #9 discussion of "2015-2016 Program of Studies". It turns out a good number of ACPS students themselves are asking the school board for more choice between academic "standard classes" and "AP classes".

An hour of board discussion ensued. Repetitive back and forth between the Superintendent and amongst Board Members on if enough time exists between now, mid December 2014, and September 2015 to allow even a single Honors class be added to at least address student's request for a more rigorous class than standard. The Superintendent said it was possible, but also thought more lead time was preferable, to this viewer urging the following academic year 2016-2017.

I didn't believe some who wrote on this thread that ACPS shorts the above average students and gifted students. I just thought that ethically impossible. Watch the video discussion starting at 1:22 and make your own judgement.

Listen where a Board member addresses the request: "it's a matter of priorities". Multiple times the word "priorities" is said, code, one might deduce, for not on the agenda for the great majority of students. I almost had to turn the ACPS Board meeting off, it broke my heart how some students are higher "priorities" in ACPS.

Ms. Booz earnest amendment for a single new Honor's class in 2015-2016 was vetoed 5to 4.

If a single new ACPS Honors class for 2015-2016, urged by Alexandria students themselves for more rigor can't get passed and completed over 9 months, then there is a big problem in ACPS.

If ACPS Board refers to the majority of students as "priorities" and these exclude honors and gifted students, then it appears the Alexandria City Public Schools may indeed be lopsided. Strong words, yes? Remember, I didn't believe you initially. It is now less hard for me at least to believe, after watching and listening to this sad, prolonged, beat-around-the-priority-bush hour of the ACPS Board Meeting this week.

I post this not to rankle ACPS School Board members, but to facilitate further discussion amongst Alexandrian's and as commentary to the OP's original question.

http://acpsk12va.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2
(1:22 for board discussion, preceded by staff presentation)

Thanks. I didn't listen to the video, but I'd bet there was also concern that offering an Honors class might lead some kids not to take the AP class - which might be bad for TC's "Challenge Index" rating.

But, just to be clear, I think that's BS and that letting kids take Honors classes builds up their confidence to take more challenging classes, particularly as juniors and seniors.

I read the recommendation from the Honors committee and one of their suggested guidelines for a child to get into an honors class in middle school is that a child should at least get a passing SOL score in the subject area. Gee you think?

Since the classes are open registration, this means that kids who fail the SOL in the subject can still sign up for the class or if they just fail the subject in general they can still sign up.

That's the level of academics in the City. They are so caught up in thinking that if they create standards that no non-white child could ever manage to get into an honors class. Nice way of thinking that non-white students can't be smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ PP, why do you think the market demand is going to be for homes-townhomes and single family?

Just curious. It's hard for me to foresee the real estate demand in Alexandria City. IDK what it will be given places like the jammed Route 1 Corridor. What if that becomes not what CC expected?

Dual income families wanting to live closer in, in an area that has a neighborhood feel, who will pay for private school. The "neighborhood feel" areas are more limited in the City.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought long before making this post yet I feel this video is very relevant to discussion of the OP's original question.

As an ACPS parent, I watched the 12/18/14 Alexandria City School Board meeting, where board member Kelly Booz introduced an amendment to add a single Honors Class by fall of 2015 during Agenda #9 discussion of "2015-2016 Program of Studies". It turns out a good number of ACPS students themselves are asking the school board for more choice between academic "standard classes" and "AP classes".

An hour of board discussion ensued. Repetitive back and forth between the Superintendent and amongst Board Members on if enough time exists between now, mid December 2014, and September 2015 to allow even a single Honors class be added to at least address student's request for a more rigorous class than standard. The Superintendent said it was possible, but also thought more lead time was preferable, to this viewer urging the following academic year 2016-2017.

I didn't believe some who wrote on this thread that ACPS shorts the above average students and gifted students. I just thought that ethically impossible. Watch the video discussion starting at 1:22 and make your own judgement.

Listen where a Board member addresses the request: "it's a matter of priorities". Multiple times the word "priorities" is said, code, one might deduce, for not on the agenda for the great majority of students. I almost had to turn the ACPS Board meeting off, it broke my heart how some students are higher "priorities" in ACPS.

Ms. Booz earnest amendment for a single new Honor's class in 2015-2016 was vetoed 5to 4.

If a single new ACPS Honors class for 2015-2016, urged by Alexandria students themselves for more rigor can't get passed and completed over 9 months, then there is a big problem in ACPS.

If ACPS Board refers to the majority of students as "priorities" and these exclude honors and gifted students, then it appears the Alexandria City Public Schools may indeed be lopsided. Strong words, yes? Remember, I didn't believe you initially. It is now less hard for me at least to believe, after watching and listening to this sad, prolonged, beat-around-the-priority-bush hour of the ACPS Board Meeting this week.

I post this not to rankle ACPS School Board members, but to facilitate further discussion amongst Alexandrian's and as commentary to the OP's original question.

http://acpsk12va.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2
(1:22 for board discussion, preceded by staff presentation)

Thanks. I didn't listen to the video, but I'd bet there was also concern that offering an Honors class might lead some kids not to take the AP class - which might be bad for TC's "Challenge Index" rating.

But, just to be clear, I think that's BS and that letting kids take Honors classes builds up their confidence to take more challenging classes, particularly as juniors and seniors.

I read the recommendation from the Honors committee and one of their suggested guidelines for a child to get into an honors class in middle school is that a child should at least get a passing SOL score in the subject area. Gee you think?

Since the classes are open registration, this means that kids who fail the SOL in the subject can still sign up for the class or if they just fail the subject in general they can still sign up.

That's the level of academics in the City. They are so caught up in thinking that if they create standards that no non-white child could ever manage to get into an honors class. Nice way of thinking that non-white students can't be smart.

Agreed. The bar is set too low. Nice catch btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You're at Stage 2 of the "move out of Alexandria because of the schools" phase.

Stage 1 is believing the demographics will change in favor.
Stage 2 is if they'll just open TJ it'll be OK.
Stage 3 is disbelief.
Stage 4 is trying to decide between private and Fairfax/Arlington. Is the extra mortgage better than private school tuition?
Stage 5 is moving/going private. If you have more than 1, you start going house shopping in Arlington, Fairfax, or Falls Church City.

Given the remote chance of getting into TJ, even for many bright children, Stage 2 is not a realistic expectation regardless of whether ACPS allows students to apply to TJ.

I don't agree with this statement that Stage 2 is not a realistic expectation when in the ACPS. There are bright enough students in ACPS to show the required aptitude, skills and social acumen to allow entry, don't kid yourself. It's a non-starter point of argument for ACPS to say "we just don't have the students capable of obtaining entrance to TJ". We do and TJ should be available in the Alexandria City Public School System, just as it is in surrounding jurisdictions.

God bless our ACPS students who miss out on this opportunity of a lifetime due to ACPS and City politics.

[Anonymous]

DD had a fabulous time at TC, and is now thoroughly enjoying life at an Ivy. If a kid is self-motivated, TC offers everything he or she needs. She says that some teachers she had at TC rival any she's had at the Ivy. Go ahead and bash TC; it means that there are fewer students to compete for top spots and consequently an easier time for those students to get into top colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD had a fabulous time at TC, and is now thoroughly enjoying life at an Ivy. If a kid is self-motivated, TC offers everything he or she needs. She says that some teachers she had at TC rival any she's had at the Ivy. Go ahead and bash TC; it means that there are fewer students to compete for top spots and consequently an easier time for those students to get into top colleges.

This line about thriving "self-motivated" students is getting stale. It's almost 2015 and you're still serving up "Yale or Jail"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD had a fabulous time at TC, and is now thoroughly enjoying life at an Ivy. If a kid is self-motivated, TC offers everything he or she needs. She says that some teachers she had at TC rival any she's had at the Ivy. Go ahead and bash TC; it means that there are fewer students to compete for top spots and consequently an easier time for those students to get into top colleges.

Look who lives in a glass house, throwing stones, bashing the majority of college accepted students served through TC Williams High School. Your daughter goes to an IVY ("fewer students to compete for top spots and consequently an easier time for those students to get into top colleges") while the majority of TC students go to NOVA Community College and feel it is quite "good enough".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD had a fabulous time at TC, and is now thoroughly enjoying life at an Ivy. If a kid is self-motivated, TC offers everything he or she needs. She says that some teachers she had at TC rival any she's had at the Ivy. Go ahead and bash TC; it means that there are fewer students to compete for top spots and consequently an easier time for those students to get into top colleges.

This line about thriving "self-motivated" students is getting stale. It's almost 2015 and you're still serving up "Yale or Jail"?

Not to mention pp basically outed herself. You can count the number of kids from TC that get into Ivy League on one hand in a given year. Of course, that's no different than most schools. But this response of "my kid was in the white kid bubble and had a WONDERFUL time" thing totally misses the point of this discussion. Yes, there are always exceptions. But they don't absolve the educational and policymaking failure that is TC and ACPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DD had a fabulous time at TC, and is now thoroughly enjoying life at an Ivy. If a kid is self-motivated, TC offers everything he or she needs. She says that some teachers she had at TC rival any she's had at the Ivy. Go ahead and bash TC; it means that there are fewer students to compete for top spots and consequently an easier time for those students to get into top colleges.

Yes, you have posted this before over the years. Somehow a couple of kids going to Ivy schools makes it's all better? TC, like all other struggling high schools in the area, will send a couple kids here and there to Ivys but to sell that like it's the norm is crazy.

There are a number of kids graduating going to very nice VA state schools and that's good but if a parent is really hoping for an Ivy school then I wouldn't suggest TC at all.