ACPS and TJ

[Anonymous]

So basically the TAG Committee recommended participation in TJ. Several school board members are on record supporting participation in TJ. But the Superintendent was against it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Under the proposal, ACPS would pay the Fairfax County district about $213,000 for the initial 14-student enrollment, a portion of which would go toward school renovation costs. By 2018, ACPS would pay upward of $943,000 for 53 students. School officials say transportation of students — an expense not included in the payment estimates — may add $22,000 to $46,000 a year to the final cost."

First, what is the source? Second, know that ACPS will highball the TJ numbers surely as they low ball other numbers as suits them.

The Alexandria City School Board recently (November 2014) voted to transfer over half a million dollars from newly found unused or finished facility budget to CIP dedicated for the installation of TCW HS foot ball field lights: "Installing lights alone at the football stadium would cost between $700,000 and $800,000, but in conjunction with other upgrades to the facility, the total price tag could reach $3.5 million, officials have said (total cost estimated 2.43 million with field upgrade)." http://alextimes.com/2014/10/school-board-moves-forward-on-t-c-lights/

Struggle, struggle, boil and trouble. Serve the mass, ignore select students at your own peril, ACPS. The backlash momentum is building as City residents see their tax dollars misspent not on academic focus. City revenue is tight, incomes are flat and year to date prices of residential real estate is down from last year. Bad time to not be focusing on basic necessities: improving ACPS rigor, accreditation and reputation will go a long way to bringing in new families and urban employers (whose employees demand an excellent academic public school system).

No, it's not. There's no backlash because what happens is families just throw up their hands and leave. You have to understand that the demographics you want to see come in is not the same one that the government there wants to serve. Ask anyone involved in ACPS and government about the schools and the first thing you hear is the high relative level of poverty. They really are committed to teaching to the masses there -- drop-out rate is a huge problem at TC. So is teenage pregnancy, drugs, and gangs. THIS is where their priorities are. They're not at all interest in spending a million bucks to send a few high-achievers to a neighboring school system.

What you have here, is a misalignment of your interest with the majority interest of the city. This is not a new phenomenon -- it's been this way for about 20 years. And, your vision doesn't align with their vision, either.

So, no, there's no backlash, except in small circles of frustrated parents who want more for their kids. And most of them just end up leaving. A few rationalize staying by believing surviving TC will somehow boost college applications (being the best in a disadvantaged school, etc). But in general, folks just leave. Spend some time in Arlington or Falls Church schools, e.g. and you will be stunned at the number of people you encounter who left Alexandria because of the schools. I'm sure it's similar in Fairfax, but that school system is so much bigger that it's not quite as noticeable.

We will just have to disagree then. I live in Alexandria City and talk with many about our school system, Council and staff (the later with unusually high turnover). City revenue is increasingly tight, urban density growth is everywhere but without the anticipated tax return from commercial real estate for years to come, partially put off by "tax incentives" to come to Alexandria.

This reality currently leaves residential homeowners again on the hook for taxes in spite of all this "urbanization". Many Alexandrian's remain frustrated with the state of our public schools: we sense some improvement but insufficient to hook large corporations who may help by Gaussian the student population (took some grammatical liberty here, but Gaussian makes it visual). This does not even include all the private school families who are conflicted by their taxes going to support a mediocre school system and their income to privates to get around it.

This is the reality I hear here in Alexandria Virginia. We do agree on one point: high future residential tax increases will be met with family and others egress from the City, some for the reasons above, others for real estate valuation. We just won't know how many until people vote with their pocket book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I didn't say TC doesn't serve high achievers. I said it's not oriented to serve them. They're not a priority.

Yes, there's always a handful of kids who graduate and go on to good colleges. But it's not really a high-achievement culture at TC. To get that experience, you sort of have to segregate from the masses, and the demographics of who is in that segregated group make claims of diversity look less virtuous.

If you move to Arlington, and end up on the IB track at W-L or the AP track at Wakefield, you'll be segregating from the masses there as well. But APS still allows students to apply to TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a gorgeous home we are renting and considering buying from our landlord. But every time I get close to pushing it, I realize that the schools are such an issue here. I even like our zoned elementary (Barret) but still worry about middle school. It seems like such a mess.

This thread is about Alexandria City Public Schools (ACPS) not Arlington (APS), which is where Barret is located. I believe you are zoned for Kenmore, which is a fine school and unlikely to be affected by current turmoil in MS boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Barrett elem. in ACPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Barrett elem. in ACPS.

Thanks. Didn't know they had one too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why should county's and cities participate in allowing a few to attend Thomas Jefferson?

Simply because it's THE STEM gem in our region, that's why. A future Noble Prize winner in Medicine or Physics or Engineering might be their product, that's why. Or one of many other global awards given in recognition of an individual who makes a huge contribution to humanity.

Why, because no local jurisdiction itself can top what TJ has too offer, which includes the very needed environment of STEM collaboration with incredible teachers and if not more importantly, collaboration in volume with fellow gifted STEM students.

At a time when the United States is crying out for STEM inventions and employers are begging, to the point where US legislation seeks global STEM students to come to America (Senators Warner and Kaine), why should OUR STUDENTS, right here in VA, not benefit from the TJ experience, except for collective arrogance of small minded school boards? ACPS has a responsibility to ALL students, which includes these gifted few.

No amount of STEM classes in ACPS equates to a school like TJ.

Wake up people! Please, for the sake of Virginia's future and beyond, wise and rise up to allow TJ in Alexandria City.

Barf.

Fairfax is a big county who can afford to do all sorts of things. TJ isn't helping me any. Better science instruction in middle school might have helped my family and many more familes than TJ ever would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have a gorgeous home we are renting and considering buying from our landlord. But every time I get close to pushing it, I realize that the schools are such an issue here. I even like our zoned elementary (Barret) but still worry about middle school. It seems like such a mess.

This thread is about Alexandria City Public Schools (ACPS) not Arlington (APS), which is where Barret is located. I believe you are zoned for Kenmore, which is a fine school and unlikely to be affected by current turmoil in MS boundaries.

PP was talking about Charles Barrett Elementary School in ACPS. http://www.acps.k12.va.us/barrett/

In the future, pp, when you don't know what the hell you're talking about, please refrain from posting. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should county's and cities participate in allowing a few to attend Thomas Jefferson?

Simply because it's THE STEM gem in our region, that's why. A future Noble Prize winner in Medicine or Physics or Engineering might be their product, that's why. Or one of many other global awards given in recognition of an individual who makes a huge contribution to humanity.

Why, because no local jurisdiction itself can top what TJ has too offer, which includes the very needed environment of STEM collaboration with incredible teachers and if not more importantly, collaboration in volume with fellow gifted STEM students.

At a time when the United States is crying out for STEM inventions and employers are begging, to the point where US legislation seeks global STEM students to come to America (Senators Warner and Kaine), why should OUR STUDENTS, right here in VA, not benefit from the TJ experience, except for collective arrogance of small minded school boards? ACPS has a responsibility to ALL students, which includes these gifted few.

No amount of STEM classes in ACPS equates to a school like TJ.

Wake up people! Please, for the sake of Virginia's future and beyond, wise and rise up to allow TJ in Alexandria City.

Barf.

Fairfax is a big county who can afford to do all sorts of things. TJ isn't helping me any. Better science instruction in middle school might have helped my family and many more familes than TJ ever would.

Wow, do you not know how science and tech systems works if you fail to grasp when opportunity knocks like Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, all of us win.

[Anonymous]

It's real easy to turn things down when budgets are tight. This is why it is important that Alexandria continue to speed new economic development, to relax some of those budget constraints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Under the proposal, ACPS would pay the Fairfax County district about $213,000 for the initial 14-student enrollment, a portion of which would go toward school renovation costs. By 2018, ACPS would pay upward of $943,000 for 53 students. School officials say transportation of students — an expense not included in the payment estimates — may add $22,000 to $46,000 a year to the final cost."

That is a totally reasonable amount to invest in the best and brightest. ACPS is spending multiples of that per student for lots of kids who will not go on to college, high school aged students who are not proficient in English, and kids at the satellite campus.

^^I agree with you on this. Imagine an inverted U shape curve that applies to all ACPS students, with 50% being in the middle. Since when does being in the minority (on the far or left right of the curve as it intersects x) make you warranting less of a full secondary education any more than anywhere else on the curve? $943,000 by 2018 with 53 students. How did ACPS project 53 student admissions by 2018? That seems very high.

Might not ACPS welcome a future famous STEM student with its allowance of TJ, in addition to those who made/make up Remember The Titans?

[Anonymous]

If I wanted to send my kid to Sidwell or some other fancy private school, I wouldn't expect Alexandria to pick up the tab for that. I will go so far as to say that I would be ridiculed by my fellow citizens for asking for such a thing.

What I don't understand is why it's not any different when people want Alexandria to pay for their kids to go to TJ. From the City of Alexandria's perspective, TJ is just another school that it takes a lot of money to send a kid to.

Of course, people have the right to send their kids to Sidwell if they want to. But subsidizing that isn't really part of the ACPS mission statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What ancillaries? And why don't they offer the option without transportation -- make the families figure that out, as they do for private schools? There are plenty of carpools to and from TJ and all of its activities. The cost is not that crazy - like $14k per student I have heard? Far less than strong academic private school. Why not let families apply and pay for it themselves? An argument may be that only the more wealthy can afford these things but the same really is true for private school too. Or make the decision to fund the tuition on the basis of need. If an economically disadvantaged kid from Alexandria can pass the tests I am confident TJ would be happy to have him/her. I say that from the vantage point of a TJ parent. It's a great school. Very hard academically but engaging in both academics and ECs. And not THAT hard to get in if you have the proper base of education from grade school. That may also not be Alexandria's schools forte.

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is preventing someone from outside Fairfax County from applying and paying their own tuition.

But ACPS will never agree to pay $14,000 a year to send a handful of kids and have its own marginal test scores fall further as part of the bargain. Are you kidding me?

I think it's a fallacy to think allowing a handful of students attend TJ would hurt test scores in ACPS. Right now no one in ACPS is aspiring to attend TJ because it's not an option. So ACPS loses many families with high-achieving kids to Arlington and Fairfax, and achievement in ACPS ends up depressed.

Allow those kids to attend to TJ and you start getting more kids working harder in elementary and middle school. Even if they don't get into TJ, those kids don't stop working hard and taking advantage of the available opportunities.

Be that as it may, it's still not going to happen. You're wasting your breath. ACPS isn't oriented to serve high achievers. Period.

Truth. I was at a meeting where Mort Sherman was asked how ACPS could attract high-achieving students that are going to private schools, and he said he wasn't interested in doing that. Quote: "Private schools are a good option for some people."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I wanted to send my kid to Sidwell or some other fancy private school, I wouldn't expect Alexandria to pick up the tab for that. I will go so far as to say that I would be ridiculed by my fellow citizens for asking for such a thing.

What I don't understand is why it's not any different when people want Alexandria to pay for their kids to go to TJ. From the City of Alexandria's perspective, TJ is just another school that it takes a lot of money to send a kid to.

Of course, people have the right to send their kids to Sidwell if they want to. But subsidizing that isn't really part of the ACPS mission statement.

Except Sidwell is a private school, and TJ is a regional public high school. That is a big difference. You are already helping pay for TJ as a state taxpayer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What ancillaries? And why don't they offer the option without transportation -- make the families figure that out, as they do for private schools? There are plenty of carpools to and from TJ and all of its activities. The cost is not that crazy - like $14k per student I have heard? Far less than strong academic private school. Why not let families apply and pay for it themselves? An argument may be that only the more wealthy can afford these things but the same really is true for private school too. Or make the decision to fund the tuition on the basis of need. If an economically disadvantaged kid from Alexandria can pass the tests I am confident TJ would be happy to have him/her. I say that from the vantage point of a TJ parent. It's a great school. Very hard academically but engaging in both academics and ECs. And not THAT hard to get in if you have the proper base of education from grade school. That may also not be Alexandria's schools forte.

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is preventing someone from outside Fairfax County from applying and paying their own tuition.

But ACPS will never agree to pay $14,000 a year to send a handful of kids and have its own marginal test scores fall further as part of the bargain. Are you kidding me?

I think it's a fallacy to think allowing a handful of students attend TJ would hurt test scores in ACPS. Right now no one in ACPS is aspiring to attend TJ because it's not an option. So ACPS loses many families with high-achieving kids to Arlington and Fairfax, and achievement in ACPS ends up depressed.

Allow those kids to attend to TJ and you start getting more kids working harder in elementary and middle school. Even if they don't get into TJ, those kids don't stop working hard and taking advantage of the available opportunities.

Be that as it may, it's still not going to happen. You're wasting your breath. ACPS isn't oriented to serve high achievers. Period.

Truth. I was at a meeting where Mort Sherman was asked how ACPS could attract high-achieving students that are going to private schools, and he said he wasn't interested in doing that. Quote: "Private schools are a good option for some people."

OMG. Was that a TRCA meeting? I was there too. Either that, or he repeated that line many times.

I don't see any indication that the replacement leadership is any different.