The subtle micro aggressions of islamophobia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You (and others) insulted my faith and the faith of 1.6 billion people by
- saying we are all out to convert folks

It's not a big stretch after your multiple postings of youtube links of converted scientists.

Anonymous wrote:
- saying our faith treats women like children
- saying women of our faith are oppressed due to inequality

Opinion, not insult.

Anonymous wrote:
- accusing the only two muslim women of lying and misleading people

On occasion, you did lie and mislead. I recall two of these off the top of my head. You lied when you posted that Islam in the U.S. grows more by conversion than by immigration. When other posters pressed you for evidence, you posted utterly irrelevant information. When that fact was explained to you, you called them one-toothed Islamophobes. Your claim about Islam's growth in the U.S. through conversion, not immigration, is a lie. You are welcome, though to post actual data proving your point. Until then, you lied.

The second time that I recall was when you continued to insist, in the face of all evidence to the contrary, that concubines were freed if they got pregnant. Multiple sources were posted that they were freed only after the master died - including a bbc link that you, yourself, posted. You continued to insist that manumission occurred upon pregnancy, and when forced to confront available evidence to the contrary (and utter lack of evidence supporting your point of view), you said that it is "contrary to your whole understanding of Islam." Your understanding of Islam, whatever it is, does not count as proof of anything. When you continued to insist that manumission occurred upon pregnancy, you lied.

This is not an insult. This is an actual proper name for someone who insists on things that happen to be demonstrably untrue.

Anonymous wrote:
- asking Muslima to post a pic of herself w/o her veil to garner sympathy

That never happened. You are lying, again.

Anonymous wrote:
The list goes on and on...its not easy to remain polite when the agenda seems to be to vilify Islam. And that makes it deeply personal because I love my faith. Still, you need not accept my apology and you may find whatever justification to continue with the insults. I will ignore.

I know you think you're getting major points for your gheera toward your religion. Perhaps. Who knows. Not on DCUM, though.

[Anonymous]

Thanks PP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like here:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/345/409978.page#5826543

And here, especially at 14:11: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/315/405354.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where does "Christian-evangelical-crusader-Islamophobe" fell into the micro aggression categories?

It was an emotional reaction to the hostility on these threads toward Islam for which I have apologized already. Muslims have yet to receive any apology for the Islam bashing on DCUM, however.

You've posted many, many insults and only one apology. It's OK to doubt its sincerity. No one expressed hostility to you PERSONALLY yet you went to great lengths to invent personal insults for posters who were less than impressed with your faith. One can be forgiven for not believing the current, apologetic, peaceful you.

You (and others) insulted my faith and the faith of 1.6 billion people by
- saying we are all out to convert folks
- saying our faith treats women like children
- saying women of our faith are oppressed due to inequality
- accusing the only two muslim women of lying and misleading people
- saying our prophet was a pedophile
- asking Muslima to post a pic of herself w/o her veil to garner sympathy
The list goes on and on...its not easy to remain polite when the agenda seems to be to vilify Islam. And that makes it deeply personal because I love my faith. Still, you need not accept my apology and you may find whatever justification to continue with the insults. I will ignore.

I can see it wasn't easy for you. I also don't think you really regret insulting people due to your choice of insults - it's very common in the Muslim discourse to insinuate that non-Muslim women are half-naked, STD-ridden sluts.

I never posted anything in the slightest bit insulting to you personally.

I'm still curious why "evangelical christian crusader" was an insult of choice for you when you knew nothing, nothing at all about the faith of the poster you were arguing with. Why is that? Why not, for instance, a "dirty Hindu" or a "dirty Jew"?

Well first of all I have never heard of such insults. Second, I have no issue with hindus or jews. They are not dirty to me.

The stereotype of Americans all being slutty and STD carrying is analogous to Muslims all being terrorists, or oppressed women, or liars who try to convert everyone, or people who are barbaric. I don't like any of these stereotypes, but I used one stereotype to show you how it feels to be judged that way. Still, not appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you the same one who asked Muslima to post a pic here with her veil on to garner sympathy?

Yes, Islam rejects trinity. A comparable comment from you would have been to say that you reject or even dislike Islams inheritance laws, or that you find it doesn't give women enough. Or even say it seems unfair to you. But to say inheritance laws treat women like children is an insult. Yes, it is also your opinion. But your opinion was also an insult. How can you hope to have an intellectual discussion about any religion if you choose to present opinions as insults?

I am absolutely not that poster. Read my post again - the relevant part is in bold now.

I am also not the poster who said Islam treats women like children. As I recall that happened once, 2-3 days ago, but it wasn't me. Like the other PP, I have always tried to be scrupulously respectful in my language here. (Unlike you, I know how ad hominems reflect on the arguer.)

Lots of people said they didn't like Islam's inheritance and divorce laws. What happened? You called them Islamophobes again and again. You cannot possibly deny having this reaction to the posters who refused to accept your arguments, because there's just too much evidence over multiple threads that you do so. You have this equation in your head

Not agreeing that Islam is perfect = Islamophobia

Multiple posters, me included, have told you that disagreement is different from Islamophobia.

This is not about disagreement. This is about accusations of lying & misleading, painting our religion with a broad brush, implying that the whole of Islam is barbaric, mocking Muslim women. There is ample evidence of comments that have nothing whatsoever with civil disagreement.

We can agree to disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I respectfully disagree! Religion may be used as a context for discrimination. For example - saying Islam condones terrorism, or that Islam treats women like children, or that there is inequality or oppression of women under Islam, or that Muhammad is a pedophile, etc...

This is why muslims are trying to clarify our religious principles here, because our principles are misinterpreted and it has the effect of discriminating Muslims.

Interpretation is a matter of personal viewpoint. You may see men and women in Islam as equal. You may see Jesus and Moses in Islam as given respect. Someone else might not. You and that person have equally valid positions. When someone disagrees with you, they aren't necessarily misinterpreting your principles, because you don't have a monopoly on interpreting them.

How is asking Muslima to post a picture here without her veil to garner sympathy simply an expression of a difference of opinion?

How is accusing Muslims of trying to convert folks simply an expression of a difference of opinion?

How is saying our women are treated like children simply an expression of an opinion? Would it not suffice to say you think women should have greater autonomy? Your difference of opinion was expressed in an insulting way.

How is saying if this debate were in person it probably would have become violent because thats how Muslims are, simply an expression of a difference of opinion.

There are too many offenses to rehash. But no, this was not simply a difference of opinion. It was much more than that. It was clear discrimination against Islam and Muslima in particular.

No matter. I hope all has been clarified, regardless of whether your opinion of Islam changed. Time to move on.

I wonder why it is that you rehash the old arguments over and over, and then declare it's time to move on. You want people to move on, then stop bringing it up.

My opinion of Islam hasn't changed - have lived among them, married on, gave birth to one - know it too well to be shattered by an unhinged chick.

There you go again with the insults. You just proved my point. This is not simply about disagreement, its about insulting Muslims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I respectfully disagree! Religion may be used as a context for discrimination. For example - saying Islam condones terrorism, or that Islam treats women like children, or that there is inequality or oppression of women under Islam, or that Muhammad is a pedophile, etc...

This is why muslims are trying to clarify our religious principles here, because our principles are misinterpreted and it has the effect of discriminating Muslims.

Interpretation is a matter of personal viewpoint. You may see men and women in Islam as equal. You may see Jesus and Moses in Islam as given respect. Someone else might not. You and that person have equally valid positions. When someone disagrees with you, they aren't necessarily misinterpreting your principles, because you don't have a monopoly on interpreting them.

How is asking Muslima to post a picture here without her veil to garner sympathy simply an expression of a difference of opinion?

How is accusing Muslims of trying to convert folks simply an expression of a difference of opinion?

How is saying our women are treated like children simply an expression of an opinion? Would it not suffice to say you think women should have greater autonomy? Your difference of opinion was expressed in an insulting way.

How is saying if this debate were in person it probably would have become violent because thats how Muslims are, simply an expression of a difference of opinion.

There are too many offenses to rehash. But no, this was not simply a difference of opinion. It was much more than that. It was clear discrimination against Islam and Muslima in particular.

No matter. I hope all has been clarified, regardless of whether your opinion of Islam changed. Time to move on.

I wonder why it is that you rehash the old arguments over and over, and then declare it's time to move on. You want people to move on, then stop bringing it up.

My opinion of Islam hasn't changed - have lived among them, married on, gave birth to one - know it too well to be shattered by an unhinged chick.

There you go again with the insults. You just proved my point. This is not simply about disagreement, its about insulting Muslims.

Huh? She called you an unhinged chick, but she said zip about Muslims in general.

[Anonymous]

NP here. How is PP calling one Muslim an unhinged chick--not for her religion, but for her argument style--an act of insulting Muslims (collectively)?

This PP has repeatedly said she is not anti-Muslim. She is married to a Muslim and the mother to one so the weight of the evidence is in her favor on this. She has many disagreements, however, with various Islamic teachings. That does not make her anti-Muslim and that does not make her an Islamaphobe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like here:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/345/409978.page#5826543

And here, especially at 14:11: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/315/405354.page

OP, you clearly didn't bother to click on the links, which show you two calling people Islamophobes over differences of opinion or disagreement on facts. The 2nd link at 14:11 is particularly illustrative of how you two throw the term "Islamophobe" around just because someone quoted Muslima's favorite Muslim scholar to make a point you disagreed with. There are so many more examples like this, though, that you can't hide behind some guy who called Mohammed a pedophile one time a month ago. If I have some time tonight I'll dig up some more examples of you guys calling people Islamophobes for no obvious reason -- it shouldn't take long because there are so many examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There you go again with the insults. You just proved my point. This is not simply about disagreement, its about insulting Muslims.

Huh?

Are you Islam? Aren't you getting a little big for yourself?

I think the way you argue is unhinged. If you were Jewish or Satanist, I'd still think that. Your personal flaws have nothing to do with Islam or Muslims.

When you got a C in college, did you tell the professor it was about insulting Muslims? When someone steps on your foot in a crowded metro, is it about insulting Muslims?

You remind me of our Palestinian buddy - when he gets drunk and trips on the street, he yells good-naturedly "that damn Zionist sidewalk!" But at least he knows he's being ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There you go again with the insults. You just proved my point. This is not simply about disagreement, its about insulting Muslims.

Huh?

Are you Islam? Aren't you getting a little big for yourself?

I think the way you argue is unhinged. If you were Jewish or Satanist, I'd still think that. Your personal flaws have nothing to do with Islam or Muslims.

When you got a C in college, did you tell the professor it was about insulting Muslims? When someone steps on your foot in a crowded metro, is it about insulting Muslims?

You remind me of our Palestinian buddy - when he gets drunk and trips on the street, he yells good-naturedly "that damn Zionist sidewalk!" But at least he knows he's being ridiculous.

Liked the Zionist sidewalk remark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well first of all I have never heard of such insults. Second, I have no issue with hindus or jews. They are not dirty to me.

The stereotype of Americans all being slutty and STD carrying is analogous to Muslims all being terrorists, or oppressed women, or liars who try to convert everyone, or people who are barbaric. I don't like any of these stereotypes, but I used one stereotype to show you how it feels to be judged that way. Still, not appropriate.

Still, why call people "evangelical christian crusaders" when you know nothing of their faith? Is this like a milder version of "std-ridden slut"? I'm just curious why you decided to use that word as an insult.

Oh, I know. It's a ...subtle micro aggression! Kinda like saying "Merry Christmas!"

[Anonymous]

Maybe we should preface everything we say with, "sorry for any perceived slight or unintentional form of micro-aggression..."

Or perhaps we should just stop talking to anyone that might be offended by our harmless chit chat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You (and others) insulted my faith and the faith of 1.6 billion people by
- saying we are all out to convert folks

It's not a big stretch after your multiple postings of youtube links of converted scientists.

Anonymous wrote:
- saying our faith treats women like children
- saying women of our faith are oppressed due to inequality

Opinion, not insult.

Anonymous wrote:
- accusing the only two muslim women of lying and misleading people

On occasion, you did lie and mislead. I recall two of these off the top of my head. You lied when you posted that Islam in the U.S. grows more by conversion than by immigration. When other posters pressed you for evidence, you posted utterly irrelevant information. When that fact was explained to you, you called them one-toothed Islamophobes. Your claim about Islam's growth in the U.S. through conversion, not immigration, is a lie. You are welcome, though to post actual data proving your point. Until then, you lied.

The second time that I recall was when you continued to insist, in the face of all evidence to the contrary, that concubines were freed if they got pregnant. Multiple sources were posted that they were freed only after the master died - including a bbc link that you, yourself, posted. You continued to insist that manumission occurred upon pregnancy, and when forced to confront available evidence to the contrary (and utter lack of evidence supporting your point of view), you said that it is "contrary to your whole understanding of Islam." Your understanding of Islam, whatever it is, does not count as proof of anything. When you continued to insist that manumission occurred upon pregnancy, you lied.

This is not an insult. This is an actual proper name for someone who insists on things that happen to be demonstrably untrue.

Anonymous wrote:
- asking Muslima to post a pic of herself w/o her veil to garner sympathy

That never happened. You are lying, again.

Anonymous wrote:
The list goes on and on...its not easy to remain polite when the agenda seems to be to vilify Islam. And that makes it deeply personal because I love my faith. Still, you need not accept my apology and you may find whatever justification to continue with the insults. I will ignore.

I know you think you're getting major points for your gheera toward your religion. Perhaps. Who knows. Not on DCUM, though.

The post asking Muslima to show a pic WITH her veil (my typo before) is there. Don't tempt me to repost it. In fact, this was one of the screen shots I submitted to CAIR and media outlets. The one media outlet I spoke to today will be receiving many similar posts to use as the basis of an article on islamophobia.

If there is one thing I do not do, its lying. As a Muslim, I can not lie!!!

The point about conversion was a post clearly addressed to Muslima. It happens to be posted on a public forum though. That doesn't mean I owe you my explanation for it. It was a direct, if not private, conversation. The only reason you hang onto that point and wish to revisit it again and again like a rabid dog out for flesh is because this is about winning an argument for you and it is the only point you think will bring you that win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. How is PP calling one Muslim an unhinged chick--not for her religion, but for her argument style--an act of insulting Muslims (collectively)?

This PP has repeatedly said she is not anti-Muslim. She is married to a Muslim and the mother to one so the weight of the evidence is in her favor on this. She has many disagreements, however, with various Islamic teachings. That does not make her anti-Muslim and that does not make her an Islamaphobe.

Quite the contrary. Her husband is secular. She hates Islam. Her husbands family pressures her to convert and she resists because she hates Islam. Now shes on DCUM calling one of only two Muslims writing here an unhinged chick. I would say my being Muslim has something to do with her insult.