Why is there such a racial/ethnic disconnect with TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am white and I used to think my kid would apply to TJ. I think he would have enjoyed it. However, it seems like these days TJ is producing students who will then go into STEM jobs that will top out in the low- to mid-$150K range. I'm not sure it's worth it. I think his time and skills would be better spent starting a business or finding a way to help others or becoming well-rounded and worldly so that he can do better than $150K max lifetime salary.

Only in DC would people think STEM jobs would max out at $150k. DH is a specialized surgeon and makes $700k. We have many friends in SF, NY and Boston who are killing it. Have you never heard of Silicon Valley?

In IT, there are recent college grads in the metro DC area that are starting out at $110-$125K. They will do better than $150K max lifetime salary, believe me.

Actually, they probably won't (in 2014 dollars). Most of the IT jobs in this area are Gov't contracting. And most of the IT work is Time and Material Contracts. T & M are based on labor rates.

I am a research scientist in the highest rate category on my project, and my company bills out about $150/hr for my work. For the customer site effort, the multiplier is about 2 (including OH & fee), so, I make $75hr, which is about 156,000/year. Unless something changes dramatically, it it virtually impossible for a STEM working as a gov't contractor to make significantly more than 150K/yr in the DC area.

And there is significant downward pressure on salaries.

And, for what it is worth, I am a PhD computational physicist with 20 years experience who is doing ground breaking work and providing technical leadership to a team of 8.

On the plus side, the work is really fun, and 155K/yr is a lot of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am white and I used to think my kid would apply to TJ. I think he would have enjoyed it. However, it seems like these days TJ is producing students who will then go into STEM jobs that will top out in the low- to mid-$150K range. I'm not sure it's worth it. I think his time and skills would be better spent starting a business or finding a way to help others or becoming well-rounded and worldly so that he can do better than $150K max lifetime salary.

Only in DC would people think STEM jobs would max out at $150k. DH is a specialized surgeon and makes $700k. We have many friends in SF, NY and Boston who are killing it. Have you never heard of Silicon Valley?

In IT, there are recent college grads in the metro DC area that are starting out at $110-$125K. They will do better than $150K max lifetime salary, believe me.

Actually, they probably won't (in 2014 dollars). Most of the IT jobs in this area are Gov't contracting. And most of the IT work is Time and Material Contracts. T & M are based on labor rates.

I am a research scientist in the highest rate category on my project, and my company bills out about $150/hr for my work. For the customer site effort, the multiplier is about 2 (including OH & fee), so, I make $75hr, which is about 156,000/year. Unless something changes dramatically, it it virtually impossible for a STEM working as a gov't contractor to make significantly more than 150K/yr in the DC area.

And there is significant downward pressure on salaries.

And, for what it is worth, I am a PhD computational physicist with 20 years experience who is doing ground breaking work and providing technical leadership to a team of 8.

On the plus side, the work is really fun, and 155K/yr is a lot of money.

I never said anything about "most" software developers. I said "there are recent college grads in the metro DC area that are starting out at $110-$125K." And there are. My employer has hired a dozen of them since January. And no, we are not a government contractor.

(I am also a PhD holder in technology policy, with 30 years experience and managing a team of 15. My salary is a bit over 155k/yr and I love what I do. I also have a nice pension.)

[Anonymous]

If you want high paying high tech jobs, go to SV. If you work for the govt, expect the pay will not match private sector. I think pretty much everyone knows this.

I've been an independent IT contractor for 10+ yrs, so has my DH. And we have several friends like this. In SV, NONE of us have ever been outsourced or out of a job unplanned for more than a few weeks. And the pay covers for such unplanned unemployment.

Yes, there are tons of H1Bs, cheap imports, etc.. and yes, the quality of the work is not there. However, in SV at least, there is so much work, you will not get outsourced if you are very good at your job.

In DC - I don't know. In other STEM jobs, I don't know. I just know for IT work, in SV at least, it's not a problem.

I think if you are very good at your job, no matter what field, your job will not get outsourced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want high paying high tech jobs, go to SV.

What is SV?

[Anonymous]

Silicon Valley

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ fairly recent grads are surgeons, playwrights, business owners, lawyers, writers, tech entrepreneurs. It doesn't breed conformists looking for a salary less than $150k. You are just wrong in assuming that.

'
That sounds like at least 5 years ago -- it takes a while to become a surgeon. Things are changing quickly at TJ is what I've heard from at least one teacher there and at one of the "feeder" middle schools.

Pray do tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ fairly recent grads are surgeons, playwrights, business owners, lawyers, writers, tech entrepreneurs. It doesn't breed conformists looking for a salary less than $150k. You are just wrong in assuming that.

'
That sounds like at least 5 years ago -- it takes a while to become a surgeon. Things are changing quickly at TJ is what I've heard from at least one teacher there and at one of the "feeder" middle schools.

Pray do tell.

They are producing more science competition winners, the average SAT score increased, more students are taking AP and post AP classes, I-NiTE has become even more popular, they launched a satellite, the yearbook won a national award and the school newspaper won a national award.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ fairly recent grads are surgeons, playwrights, business owners, lawyers, writers, tech entrepreneurs. It doesn't breed conformists looking for a salary less than $150k. You are just wrong in assuming that.

'
That sounds like at least 5 years ago -- it takes a while to become a surgeon. Things are changing quickly at TJ is what I've heard from at least one teacher there and at one of the "feeder" middle schools.

Pray do tell.

They are producing more science competition winners, the average SAT score increased, more students are taking AP and post AP classes, I-NiTE has become even more popular, they launched a satellite, the yearbook won a national award and the school newspaper won a national award.

Trying to understand what your point is. Are you saying the kids will be better prepared to be successful?

I don't have a dog in this race as my child is only in kindergarten. At the same time, I think it is well known that TJ is one of the best high schools in the country and will be well prepared for college.

[Anonymous]

I think the previous posts were by different people. One sounded negative. A positive person responded. Yes, by all accounts at least the first couple years of college are easy after TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ fairly recent grads are surgeons, playwrights, business owners, lawyers, writers, tech entrepreneurs. It doesn't breed conformists looking for a salary less than $150k. You are just wrong in assuming that.

'
That sounds like at least 5 years ago -- it takes a while to become a surgeon. Things are changing quickly at TJ is what I've heard from at least one teacher there and at one of the "feeder" middle schools.

Pray do tell.

They are producing more science competition winners, the average SAT score increased, more students are taking AP and post AP classes, I-NiTE has become even more popular, they launched a satellite, the yearbook won a national award and the school newspaper won a national award.

Trying to understand what your point is. Are you saying the kids will be better prepared to be successful?

I don't have a dog in this race as my child is only in kindergarten. At the same time, I think it is well known that TJ is one of the best high schools in the country and will be well prepared for college.

The thing I wonder (I am not sure of) is TJ's excellence the result of skimming the best and brightest from the county, or is it because of TJ? What I mean is, if the kids at TJ were in their base HS's, they probably would be at the top of the class. They would go to great schools. I doubt the SAT's would differ significantly. The benefit of TJ is not the education per se, it is having your child surrounded by other brilliant children, and they grow from those interactions. I suspect, at TJ, the kids are much smarter than the teachers. The kids will learn from each other. That will help them more than the teaching.

(This is the same argument for AAP centers). For what its worth, I do not want my DD going to TJ, because of distance. I would rather her walk 10 min to HS then ride a bus for an hour each way.

[Anonymous]

Many of the teachers at TJ are very good - Ph. D.s and such and both the curriculum and the approach to teaching is very different from other county base schools. Where else would you combine Chemistry and Humanities as a class, for example, and study the basics of each but also the intersections, such as the chemistry of paint, and how great art is restored? And most schools don't offer many of the specialized courses (such as Bionanotechnology). And TJ has a year long Biology research project in 9th and a highly specialized Senior project. To accomplish those, this year the incoming 9th graders start with a semester of Research Statistics that is an AP level class. All academic subjects are taught at Honors, AP or Post AP level. It also requires all the same "extra" credits in language and humanities that the IB program requires. So the kids at TJ have the opportunity -- in fact are required -- to accelerate learning in broad ways. And it operates more like a college in atmosphere. So I am not sure that anyone should assume that a base high school is comparable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of it is almost certainly cultural. I want my smart, high a heaving 6th grader to do well. But, as a third generation Jewish American, I know that there is plenty of time to excel. She can go to a great school from our base HS. And, if you are going to science, guess what? Where you go to college does not matter...grad school matters.

I do not want my dd commuting 1 hr each way, having 4-6 hrs of hw per night.

By comparison, high achieving people in India or Korea have success defined by admittance to the right hs...rejected for the top hs, and your chance at a high achieving life is much lower.

"It really is a mindset and in saying this it is not intended as a value judgement.

My son went to TJ. It was a long trek for him and on top of this the rigorous academic requirements at TJ had him working some long hours especially in his junior year.

He went on to medical school and is currently doing his residency at one of the most prestigious programs in the country and will be done soon.

He says that TJ was the best thing that happened to him. He literally breezed through his undergrad. He said it was a lot easier than TJ from an academic standpoint in terms of the pressure .... and he completed his undergrad in three years!

Given where he is today, ask him whether he has any regrets about the long commute and the academic demands that TJ made on him and he would give an unqualified response that TJ was a huge help to him in getting where he is today. Could he have done it in a different academic environment? More than likely he could have. But that does not take anything away from the role TJ played in getting him to where he is today.

None of the above is meant as a brag ..... after all, I am posting anonymously. It is merely intended as a perspective on how some parents and their children view the downsides (commuting, new friends, academic pressures) of going to TJ."

If he is doing residency now that means he was class of 2006 or 2007. TJ seems much different in 2014.

[Anonymous]

Q. What do you get when you graduate from TJ?
A. A high school diploma.

Q. What do you get when you graduate from Langley?
A. A high school diploma.

[Anonymous]

My son goes to TJ and I really wonder if it is worth it. So many long stressful nights. He does not want to be a doctor or a patent attorney. I would like him to leave but he loves it and won't.

[Anonymous]

What do you get with a GED? The equivalent of a high school diploma. Why bother? I would say the TJ kids I know love learning and can discuss anything with a depth uncommon in teenagers - from science to philosophy to how things work to why a TV show is fun to watch. Like PP said, it is a grind but many of the students LOVE it.